The breeder does not want my puppy to be neutered until he is two years old. Her reason is that he needs the testosterone for good muscular and skeletal development. My vet disagrees. He feels that with testosterone comes male aggression and it is best to neuter before this kicks in. He feels that around 7 months is the best time.
Interested in hearing other opinions.
Your vet needs to come up to speed on research.
Don’t know what breed you are talking about (it does make a difference), but for many large breed dogs, ou are best advised to wait until the growth plates close.
For large/giant breeds, two years is generally recommended.
If ever…why do you want to castrate your dog?
That is, if you are able to supervise your male so he does not ever have an oops breeding…which is not that hard to do, for some of us.
I have owned many intact male wolfhounds over 45 years, none have ever sired an unplanned litter, none have ever urinated in the house, or displayed aggression to other dogs. They cannot “roam” as we are securely fenced.
None have ever had a medical issue linked to being intact.
I show in conformation, obedience, and tracking (not titled yet in tracking).
Why not listen to your breeder?
because listening to the breeder and having an uncastrated animal is a liability. not only that but it opens up opportunities for many unwanted behaviors that down the road can mean the difference between adoption if for whatever reason OP needs to give him up.
OP there are lots of pros and cons to waiting too late to starting too early. Personally I agree with your vet - 7 months is the best time for the average person and dog. I neuter them as soon as I can. None of my dogs have ever had a medical issue linked to being neutered.
Well I never had to factor in " what if I had to give this animal up"… In my case they would be more valuable intact vs castrated.
I never considered my intact males in any way a liability.
They have never exhibited any unwanted behaviors.
Perhaps that is a breed trait, or perhaps an owner trait as far as training, setting limits, etc.
We’ve always had it done between 6 and 7 months and , in a lifetime of happy Corgis,never had an intact male.
I think most pet owners today have never had an intact male, and don’t realize what it is like.
Of course, it varies with breed…some little dogs are extremely “common” and annoying if intact, mounting, urinating in the house, being aggressive to other dogs, etc.
But not all intact male dogs are like this.
If possible I think it is best to wait as long as possible. That may be 6 months or 2 years. Mine was wonderful but around 2-2.5 he became more dominant around other males and was a bit punkish. It was manageable but he is small and I started to get a bit worried about him posturing at the wrong male and getting his booty handed to him. Post neutering he calmed down and went back to his previous polite behavior.
As long as you are observant it is easy to tell when (if) they start developing undesirable behavior. Some males never do and others become quite a handful as early as 5 or 6 months.
I always think an early neuter is the most responsible choice if a dog is going to be a farm dog or unsupervised in an unleashed area where he could wander off or be approached by a lady friend.
As early as the vet thinks it is safe. 6 months is typical. I did have a breeding male and he marked. Even after we neutered him, he continued to mark. i would neuter for health reasons and for convenience of training. If they never learn to mark, it won’t be a problem.
Coming from someone who does apartment living, neutered males/spayed females are sometimes the only dogs allowed. I did not realize this until I moved to a college town. But it made me thankful I went ahead and snipped my guy because otherwise I would not be able to have him with me and afford the housing.
Honestly I see both sides between keeping a male in tact or neutering. And when it comes down it, I would much rather an owner go ahead and neuter their male if they haven’t had experience raising/training dogs. It’s far more irresponsible for someone not to neuter a dog they can’t handle/train.
OP how big is the dog? I’ve always had cardis; we neuter them around 6 mo; 1 year max. So I’m inclined to agree with your vet. Sure the testosterone will add muscle tone and let the body fill out, but depending on the breed and what you plan to do with the dog, I don’t know if it’s worth waiting THAT long.
It very much makes a difference what size and /or breed of dog he is, and what his living situation is. Some breeds, especially those that are large, long-limbed, or especially prone to cancer I would hesitate to castrate before they are fully mature at 18 months to two years old or at all. I compete in agility with my dogs and I want them fully mature structurally and physiologically before considering neutering.
Some toy dog types may be pretty much mature by six months. With a breed that’s known for aggression toward other dogs, I’d tend toward doing it before the dog was fully mature.
My 8 year old whippet boy is entire and a perfect gentleman. If he wasn’t, he would have been neutered by now! He’s friendly to people and loves kids; is good with other dogs; has never tried to escape/roam; and has never peed in the house even with two girls in season in the next room. I had his nephew neutered at 15 months, and he’s a well behaved sweetheart, too.
Interesting read. My previous Bouvs were done at age 9 months. None had cancer. One lived to be 13 which is old for a Bouv. My Golden which was dumped at my mailbox about 3 weeks old I didn’t neuter until age 7 years. He never showed any signs of aggression but took off and lived with the coyotes for 2 weeks. My poodle was never neutered as there never were any signs that he needed it. He lived to be 16.
Current puppy is a Bouv. At 3 months quite a handful. Vet found one testicle has not dropped though he was able to find it. I do want to make the right decision for this dog. We live in the country and he will never be outside unsupervised.
Many vets have a different perspective on this situation because they see the product of poorly supervised and cared for animals – dogs that are allowed to roam, owners that want to euthanize their dog because it marks, unwanted litters, unspayed bitches with Pyo, etc.
From that perspective - it’s “safer” to tell most people to spay and neuter as early as possible.
But if you are talking about responsible pet owners, there is no reason for neutering a male at 6-8 months. There are health benefits to allowing a dog to mature before neutering. Most well-trained dogs do not have serious behavior problems related to being intact.
I also show in conformation, as well as Hunt Tests and NAVHDA (versatile hunter). Most of the hunting dogs we know are also intact. We rarely hear of any behavior issues. My last dog was intact his entire life (until 13.5); my middle dog is intact and 6 years old, my puppy is almost 6 months and I will keep him intact as well.
So I guess my question - why wouldn’t you wait? What are your concerns? (If any, or are you just curious?)
I brought my intact male Aussie to an orthopedic surgeon for a stifle strain that I thought could be cruciate ligament problems. He told me that with an intact male cruciate ligament tears are highly unlikely --to non existent. Cruciate ligament issues are very common in neutered males. Turned out the dog just had some inflammation in the joint and we treated with PRP and he was fine. For an active breed it was good information about keeping him intact.
Living in a relatively urban area, I am quite happy that most of the dogs around here are fixed. In my experience, it depends entirely on the owner whether the dog will develop issues that are related to the higher levels of testosterone in intact males, but most owners are ignorant of proper training. I avoid adult, unsterilzied males because I see the instigating fights and mounting, which their owners do nothing to stop. Therefore, I think it is good that the average owner has their dog fixed at 5-7 months.
That being said, if you have a large breed and are capable of keeping him under control, there is not reason to neuter before 1.5 years if at all. It is a matter of personal preference, there are not significant enough spikes in the data to suggest that either early or later procedures have a largely detrimental or beneficial effect on overall health.
My Akita puppy will be neutered at 8 months, one month before the age that most breeders agree marks sexual maturity for the breed. I want the growth hormones to come in play as much as possible, without risking any dog aggression issues that commonly arise at 9 months. As an owner of a “dangerous” breed, I believe it is my due diligence to circumvent any aggression that could potentially arise. I know if he ever bit somebody, he would be put down on reputation alone. If I had the luxury of living away from strangers who have no qualms about touching my dog without my permission, and the ability not to regularly have him around a public that largely does not understand canine body language, he would not be fixed until 2 years of age.
Soft hijack ~ CT ? Please share your new puppy ? Name ???
Morning Cat Tap !
Thrilled to see your thread ~ no advice ~ just anxious to hear more about your new Bouv …
Name … Personality … Pic…
Hope your foot has healed and you are enjoying your new puppy !
Glad he has arrived ‘home’ !
I will say the general public seems to feel they have a right to chastise you if you have an intact male. My male just turned 1.5 years and is not fixed. If I take him out in public, we generally get a comment about how “fixing your dog is so much better!!!11!!!” There are quite a few factors that have gone into our decision to keep him intact, so I’ve prepared a few comments that I use when this topic comes up. 
I always ask why they believe that, which opens up a good way to bring in research they may not have heard about (keeping males intact helps prevent ACL tears), give them a different viewpoint (since he’s going to be such a big dog we want to wait for his skeleton to mature), try to get them interested in dog sports (we’re going to be lure coursing with him), and always end with the responsibility angle (he is never outside unsupervised, and never off-leash unless in a properly fenced area).
I do acknowledge that what works for us is not always feasible for other people, but is the best decision for us and our dog. So far, even though it’s a bit irritating to get into the same discussion over and over, it’s also rewarding to present a factually supported different viewpoint and watch people think about it. I feel like a downside of the “spay/neuter everything” viewpoint being hammered into society is that people don’t even stop to think about the WHY, and hopefully helping them do that will stop them being so judgemental about another perfectly valid and acceptable way of doing things.
We kept our lab intact until 22 months. At that point he was getting a little pushy with the old female retriever we had. I think part of it was timing. She was the boss and as she aged I think he was looking to take over that spot and the timing of her decline and his maturity just crossed at the wrong time.
The breeder wanted us to keep him intact until 18 months so we exceeded that.
This dog would never dream of peeing in the house or marking in the house. We have a standard sized Eskimo Spitz who was a year old when we got him from the shelter. He was neutered long enough before we got him that all the fur on his scrotum was fully grown in. Now he will mark in the house and has since we got him. He is now 14 years old. We have to really restrict his access and if we can’t he gets a belly band. He is the one that wants to stop at every bush, tree, sign post, mail box and lift his leg.
The lab will lift his leg off the property but isn’t insistent about constantly trying to. He will lift once at the beginning and maybe once again at a particularly fragrant spot. The lab squats to pee at home probably 95% of the time.
There is some research that suggests that neutering early on large dogs changes the bone growth of the long bones. This leads to the angles in the hips and elbowing being different between an unneutered dog and neutered dog. This in turn can contribute to elbow or hip dysplasia.
[QUOTE=EKLay;8482095]
I will say the general public seems to feel they have a right to chastise you if you have an intact male. My male just turned 1.5 years and is not fixed. If I take him out in public, we generally get a comment about how “fixing your dog is so much better!!!11!!!” There are quite a few factors that have gone into our decision to keep him intact, so I’ve prepared a few comments that I use when this topic comes up.
I always ask why they believe that, which opens up a good way to bring in research they may not have heard about (keeping males intact helps prevent ACL tears), give them a different viewpoint (since he’s going to be such a big dog we want to wait for his skeleton to mature), try to get them interested in dog sports (we’re going to be lure coursing with him), and always end with the responsibility angle (he is never outside unsupervised, and never off-leash unless in a properly fenced area).
I do acknowledge that what works for us is not always feasible for other people, but is the best decision for us and our dog. So far, even though it’s a bit irritating to get into the same discussion over and over, it’s also rewarding to present a factually supported different viewpoint and watch people think about it. I feel like a downside of the “spay/neuter everything” viewpoint being hammered into society is that people don’t even stop to think about the WHY, and hopefully helping them do that will stop them being so judgemental about another perfectly valid and acceptable way of doing things.[/QUOTE]
It’s great to have responsible peoplelike you changing the conversation on spay/neuter. I worry about owners who allow themselves to be “brainwashed” by the vets who advocate for spaying and neutering at early ages. It always upsets me to see 3 and 4 month old puppies coming from the shelter already fixed, and people who take their dogs in at 5 and 6 months. I think it would be better to put that time and effort into education about proper training and doing a better job controlling who is able to get dogs in the first place!
After paying for 2 TPLOs on my current shepherd,my next one will be neutered much later.
I would follow my vet’s advice. I’m sure it’s possible to find a vet that is more in line with your breeder’s philosophy if you’re leaning in that direction, though.
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