At what age do you neuter a male dog?

[Houndhill]

[QUOTE=SonnysMom;8482189]

There is some research that suggests that neutering early on large dogs changes the bone growth of the long bones. This leads to the angles in the hips and elbowing being different between an unneutered dog and neutered dog. This in turn can contribute to elbow or hip dysplasia.[/QUOTE]

The mechanism of this is that the steroid hormones testosterone and progesterone cause the closure of the long bones in the legs.

Absent these hormones, the bones continue to grow, causing the early-neutered large/giant breed to grow taller, because the legs are longer, but often spindly in appearance. Early neutered dogs of these breeds are also more prone to orthopedic issues because of this abnormall growth. This is one of the major reasons breeders recommend neutering after the growth plates have closed.

Another reason is that many large/giant breeds are at increased risk for certain types of cancers- osteosarcoma, hemangiosarcoma, lymphoma, etc. Early neutering increases the likelihood that the dog will suffer from these types of cancer, as recent studies have shown.

So, because of the increased chances of orthopedic and cancer issues which has been shown by recent studies, most breeders prefer to delay neutering (if it is considered necessary) until after maturity, and in the case of bitches, to recommend ovary-sparing spays.

Certainly in toy/small breeds, or in situations where the dog is not going to be supervised/confined so that population control is an issue, that is a different situation.

[Houndhill]

[QUOTE=EKLay;8482095]
I will say the general public seems to feel they have a right to chastise you if you have an intact male. My male just turned 1.5 years and is not fixed. If I take him out in public, we generally get a comment about how “fixing your dog is so much better!!!11!!!” There are quite a few factors that have gone into our decision to keep him intact, so I’ve prepared a few comments that I use when this topic comes up.

I always ask why they believe that, which opens up a good way to bring in research they may not have heard about (keeping males intact helps prevent ACL tears), give them a different viewpoint (since he’s going to be such a big dog we want to wait for his skeleton to mature), try to get them interested in dog sports (we’re going to be lure coursing with him), and always end with the responsibility angle (he is never outside unsupervised, and never off-leash unless in a properly fenced area).

I do acknowledge that what works for us is not always feasible for other people, but is the best decision for us and our dog. So far, even though it’s a bit irritating to get into the same discussion over and over, it’s also rewarding to present a factually supported different viewpoint and watch people think about it. I feel like a downside of the “spay/neuter everything” viewpoint being hammered into society is that people don’t even stop to think about the WHY, and hopefully helping them do that will stop them being so judgemental about another perfectly valid and acceptable way of doing things.[/QUOTE]

You could always tell the busybodies that he has had a vasectomy! Actually more vets are doing this.

I have never felt criticism that my dogs are intact, probably because most of my friends get the show dog thing. If some rescue folks question me, usually the explanation that this is a show dog is enough. But, I like your tactic of taking the time to educate people about the effects of pediatric castration (castration broadly speaking means removing the ovaries/testes).

At least perhaps some will question their long and firmly held beliefs enough to actually look at the recent research instead of having a knee- jerk reaction to castrate everything in sight, no matter how young.

[Where_sMyWhite]

The people I’ve talked to recently are in the 18-24 month range.

I had a male Bouv that I kept intact until he was about 2 1/2-3 years old as I was competing him in conformation. He ended up being a poster child for the positive benefits of brain surgery

My current intact almost 12 month old Border Terrier will be in the 18-24 month window… I have no plans for him to be a baby daddy

[Sswor]

My agility trainer sees no point in castrating males and wants me to wait until my pup is 2 or 3 years old to neuter, “if ever”. She’s changed my thinking about it so much that I wonder if there is any point to neutering him. My last male I neutered at 6 months. He was a dominant monster and it did help a great deal. But he died of nasty nasty cancer at 12. He should have gone to 15 or more. Who knows.

Of course if new pup becomes a nuisance to my spayed bitch or I have any trouble with the wanderlust, that’s a different story.

My mother is champing at the bit for me to cut his balls off. She thinks she knows a great deal about dogs, and I did get a fantastic raising from her in how to be a proper pet owner, but things change and we learn as time goes on. The latest science behind the argument to not neuter is compelling to me.

It can be difficult to go against the grain of modern group think on subjects regarding pet management but the older I get, the less I care. That does help when it comes to unsolicited comments from the peanut gallery, even when it’s mom.

[Murphy_s_Mom]

I’m in the “wait until 1-2 years to neuter” camp. My vet says definitely wait with large breed dogs but it’s ok to do earlier with a small breed. I have a friend who breeds Bouviers. Just sent her a message asking her opinion. A friend who breeds labs has it in her contract to not neuter before 2 years old.

I also have a vet tech friend who always recommends early spaying and neutering. She does this because there are so many irresponsible pet owners around here. We have a big problem with pet overpopulation. She waits on her personal dogs though.

[D_BaldStockings]

Neutering Your Male Dog – Pros and Cons

Don’t Make This Mistake When Scheduling Your Dog’s Neutering Procedure

Determining the Best Age at Which to Spay or Neuter a Dog: An Evidenced-Based Analysis | petMD

google and learn. I’m in the wait until necessary -when and if - column.

And be responsible: train your dog, monitor your dog.

[Houndhill]

OP, did you not fully understand the ramifications of buying a puppy with only one descended testicle?

[GraceLikeRain]

[QUOTE=Cat Tap;8481660]

He never showed any signs of aggression but took off and lived with the coyotes for 2 weeks. […] We live in the country and he will never be outside unsupervised.[/QUOTE]

Even with the most careful handling dogs do get out. If you don’t have a perimeter fence an intact dog is going to be more prone to wandering.

[Murphy_s_Mom]

Heard back from my breeder friend (bouviers). She said that with a cryptorchid, early neuter is best.

[Foxtrot_s]

I was not impressed when somebody bought an unsprayed female over to my house this week. Yuck. I did let her do the spot cleaning.

I’m of the opinion that all dogs not breeding should be fixed. Too many oopsie pregnancies out there, and dogs out on the streets producing too many hungry homeless dogs.

I seem to think that it is more of a mindset here in Canada to have your animal fixed, male or female.

[snowblaze]

If the other testicle doesn’t drop, that is a good reason to get him neutered once he’s sufficiently mature. Retained testicles are more prone to torsion, and eventually have a higher rate of cancer. I had no qualms about waiting until 15 months with my pup.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;8483188]
I was not impressed when somebody bought an unsprayed female over to my house this week. Yuck. I did let her do the spot cleaning.

I’m of the opinion that all dogs not breeding should be fixed. Too many oopsie pregnancies out there, and dogs out on the streets producing too many hungry homeless dogs.

I seem to think that it is more of a mindset here in Canada to have your animal fixed, male or female.[/QUOTE]

I’m sorry - someone brought their female in heat and let her bleed on your floor? That sounds exactly like the kind of person that needs an animal altered - because they obviously don’t understand the basic biology of canine reproduction. It’s a couple weeks out of the year to be careful with an unspayed female - it’s not a full-time problem but during those weeks it is. That’s bizarre.

Just as many people in Canada and other countries show their dogs and own unaltered dogs for showing, breeding, etc. It’s not a U.S. ‘thing’.

In general, I think most pet people should have their dogs altered - but not before 18 months or so in most cases. But of course, if you’re not capable of managing their hormones or the associated issues (bleeding, interest in other unaltered dogs, etc.) then earlier might be better.

[Cat_Tap]

[QUOTE=S1969;8481663]
Many vets have a different perspective on this situation because they see the product of poorly supervised and cared for animals – dogs that are allowed to roam, owners that want to euthanize their dog because it marks, unwanted litters, unspayed bitches with Pyo, etc.

From that perspective - it’s “safer” to tell most people to spay and neuter as early as possible.

But if you are talking about responsible pet owners, there is no reason for neutering a male at 6-8 months. There are health benefits to allowing a dog to mature before neutering. Most well-trained dogs do not have serious behavior problems related to being intact.

I also show in conformation, as well as Hunt Tests and NAVHDA (versatile hunter). Most of the hunting dogs we know are also intact. We rarely hear of any behavior issues. My last dog was intact his entire life (until 13.5); my middle dog is intact and 6 years old, my puppy is almost 6 months and I will keep him intact as well.

So I guess my question - why wouldn’t you wait? What are your concerns? (If any, or are you just curious?)[/QUOTE]

I had planned to wait as the breeder suggested but because my vet advised that in order to avoid the possibility of aggression it would be better to neuter earlier. This is my 5th Bouv, Bouv #4 was very aggressive with strangers and anything that moved. It was difficult to have anyone come to the house. I always had to either lock him up or keep him on a leash beside me. However he was neutered at age 7 months. Bouvs can become quite large. My first one was 120 lbs. The other three were around 70/80 lbs.

[Cat_Tap]

[QUOTE=Zu Zu;8481800]
Morning Cat Tap !

Thrilled to see your thread ~ no advice ~ just anxious to hear more about your new Bouv …

Name … Personality … Pic…

• will completely understand if you’d rather not …

Hope your foot has healed and you are enjoying your new puppy !
Glad he has arrived ‘home’ ![/QUOTE]

Hello Zu Zu, Bentley is now 13 weeks old, weighing 28 lbs. and is a bundle of energy. He is wearing me out. I also did not consider housebreaking a puppy in the dead of winter. All my other dogs arrived in the summer and had a second dog for company and to play with. Bentley just has me. He appears to be quite smart. “Time to go to bed” and he goes into his crate. Knows how to “sit” “stay” and “lets go”.

Though he howled in the car on the way to the vet he was well behaved for his examination and shots. He also did quite well at his first “Head Start” puppy class yesterday. He does let me know when he needs to go out for poop but the problem with pee is that by the time I have my coat and boots on it is often too late.

I do have pictures on Facebook but don’t know how to post them here.

[Cat_Tap]

[QUOTE=Houndhill;8482970]
OP, did you not fully understand the ramifications of buying a puppy with only one descended testicle?[/QUOTE]
Houndhill I am well aware of the problems this is in horses but it has never occurred to me in 50 years of dog ownership to check a dog. I don’t know if the breeder was aware of this as I have not contacted her yet. I have no intention of using this dog for breeding and the vet assured me that surgery would not be a problem.

At any rate I will have to deal with whatever consequences there will be as I have never returned any animal that I have owned.

[mommy_peanut]

I wait as long as possible to spay/neuter, if it’s done at all.
I have GSD’s & it’s NEVER made them more aggressive. That’s such hogwash, I can’t believe people, especially a vet, would continue spreading old wives tails.

As with most things when it comes to our pets, there are many different thoughts on the “right” way to do things.
Do your research! Don’t rely on what someone else is telling you, as it may be their opinion, but do they have hard facts to back it up…

As for your pup still having one undescended testicle, just keep an eye on it. Don’t keep checking him as that can cause them to keep it sucked up.
Granted they usually should have both down by about 8 weeks, I’ve had them drop at as late at 8 months(rather unusual).
I currently have a cryptorchid male that just recently turned 2 years, so he’s going in at the end of this month to get neutered.
My vet is very supportive of me waiting until they are older to alter them. She is also supportive of leaving them intact.

Post photos of the cutie

[Houndhill]

[QUOTE=Cat Tap;8484471]
Houndhill I am well aware of the problems this is in horses but it has never occurred to me in 50 years of dog ownership to check a dog. I don’t know if the breeder was aware of this as I have not contacted her yet. I have no intention of using this dog for breeding and the vet assured me that surgery would not be a problem.

At any rate I will have to deal with whatever consequences there will be as I have never returned any animal that I have owned.[/QUOTE]

I am just a little surprised, I can’t imagine buying a male puppy without checking that he has two testicles- nor can I imagine a breeder selling a male puppy without disclosing that he has only one descended testicle!

There may be injections that might increase the probability that the testicle will descend, your puppy is not yet too old to try this. I have friends that have used this successfully- if it descends, it would make his eventual neutering much simpler than if the vet had to go searching (ultrasound might be helpful if the testicle couldn’t be palpated). I would consult a good repro vet (theriogenolist) to see about whether the injections might be useful.

Being a monorchid makes your puppy ineligible to compete in conformation shows, not that this is something I understand you wanted to do, but certainly something I would think your breeder would have discussed with you.

If the testicle does not drop, he might be at a little more risk for sertoli cell cancer, but I would still follow your breeders recommendation to wait until he is two to neuter him.

Your previous dogs’ histories suggest that genetics and training are more important than hormonal status as far as aggression is concerned, and I would agree with that. I can understand your wanting to stack the deck as much as possible in your favor, but early neutering may not be the way to do this, and has such significant health consequences for a large breed dog that you may want to heed your breeder’s advice on this one, as well as your opinion after you thoroughly research the issue.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Houndhill;8484648]
I am just a little surprised, I can’t imagine buying a male puppy without checking that he has two testicles- nor can I imagine a breeder selling a male puppy without disclosing that he has only one descended testicle![/QUOTE]

I’m confused on this point because the OP said that the vet said one had not dropped, but was able to find it…I’m unclear, then, on whether the puppy is cryptorchid or not? I read that as “one was hiding, but eventually was found” so it seemed more like it was descended. (Because, I am not sure how the vet would find it if it was undescended without an ultrasound?)

OP - at what age did the vet check, and do you know for sure that he has only one - or two - now?

[mommy_peanut]

There is a good chance that both testicles were down when the breeder checked, sold the pup. It’s not unheard of for them to go up/down/up, before staying down.
It’s also not uncommon for the pup to suck them up, if he’s being constantly checked/handled.
The best way to check is wait for them to be sleeping & relaxed. Gently roll him onto his side/back. If they are both descended, you should be able to see them or (gently) feel them.
As for the injections, do thorough research before going that route. It’s not something I would ever use.

[Houndhill]

[QUOTE=Cat Tap;8484452]
I had planned to wait as the breeder suggested but because my vet advised that in order to avoid the possibility of aggression it would be better to neuter earlier. This is my 5th Bouv, Bouv #4 was very aggressive with strangers and anything that moved. It was difficult to have anyone come to the house. I always had to either lock him up or keep him on a leash beside me. However he was neutered at age 7 months. Bouvs can become quite large. My first one was 120 lbs. The other three were around 70/80 lbs.[/QUOTE]

OP, the best thing you can do about preventing aggression in your puppy is to socialize the hell out of him, and train him!

Although it may be a departure in your lifestyle, you should give Puppy Parties, perhaps give pizza and beer/wine, and welcome people into your home.

Your puppy needs to feel that some visitors are welcomed, they play, they give delicious treats. Otherwise they will treat visitors to the home as intruders, so they must be given experiences where visitors are welcomed.

And, also, socialize the puppy to unfamiliar environments, and unfamilar
People.

There are many checklists available for socializing puppies- I have often used the one by Dr. Sophia Zin, will try to find the link.

Ask the breeder whether she was able to palpate two testicles prior to shipping/selling this puppy.

Yes, sometime the testes can be palpated or not, ask the breeder!

I have had the best luck finding testicles if I cradle the pup upright, hindquarters down, and gently stroke rear to aft, with your fingers.

The friends I’ve had who have done the injections have been pleased with the results.