Menu

Stay in Touch
Sign up for ENews
Subscribe Now

Unlimited access >

Menu

Attention Parents- What is wrong???

Hunter/Jumper
#141

[QUOTE=LexInVA;2681904]
In case anyone is concerned, Mr. Kraus will no longer be under any kind of supervision as of 12/15/2009, so if anyone has experienced any kind of incident or unhealthy behavior with him, now would be the best time to come forward with it before he is released from the system.[/QUOTE]

This bears repeating.

If anybody happens to have a good relationship with their Senator or Congressman, that might be the best way to get this information to the USOC. Just a thought. :cool:

#142

Here’s another fyi for you all. KK is aware of this thread and I venture a guess reading it as well. A simple check of the member list, poof, there it is. kenkraus registered on coth Aug 26th 2007.

Money and power can’t hide the truth.
Happy reading Ken

#143

[QUOTE=Elphaba2;2683313]
Here’s another fyi for you all. KK is aware of this thread and I venture a guess reading it as well. A simple check of the member list, poof, there it is. kenkraus registered on coth Aug 26th 2007.

Money and power can’t hide the truth.
Happy reading Ken[/QUOTE]

Could just be an alt though. People have been known to make them and use them to enforce their own opinions or belief in a particular thread by making statements that are supposedly credible when it’s about someone or something they support. I’m sure we will may yet hear something from it.

#144

All of you are coming up with good ideas. Let me first say, as a junior, my friend (a male) and I (a female) had problems with KK. Phone calls to our hotel rooms, uncomfortable conversations, etc. It started out like he was just a really nice announcer guy. Stopping to say hello for a minute seemed normal. Then it got weirder. I am pretty sure that my friend was in a harder position then I was. Even after I wasn’t a junior, he would find my barn at a show, get my number off the board and harrass me. I finally was really nasty to him and he didn’t talk to me but he used his announcing powers to show his disapproval. He would tell the judge that I was always late or say my name in a weird way. This happenned to kids who grew up at shows. Imagine the other kids who could have experienced this or even worse. Its a scary thought.

I think that the USEF should do background checks on all officials. The ones with a sexual predator title should be made public just like Megan’s Law.

#145

sorry if this has been posted before, but here’s a link:

http://www.familywatchdog.us/Search.asp

It’s interesting who you’ll find in your zip code


#146

Ha! I hope Ken is reading this as well as the other perverts in our sport. They need to be put on notice that we aren’t going to put up with their crap anymore.

God help him I ever run into KK at a show.

#147

On the observation that “There is Trouble Right Here In River City”.

The intentions of those of you who feel that as parents, you are duty bound to try to protect all children from sexual predators are honest, correct, and worthy of attention. However, I think that your proposition that it is the duty of USEF to join you in undertaking this task, bears a bit of scrutiny. I think that if you temper emotion with logic, you will discover some issues that bear consideration and restraint. Let’s think about this notion that one of the duties of the USEF is( or should be) to enact and enforce rules denying membership and/or Licensed Official status to any person who has been formally accused of a sexual crime against children.

The USEF is the NGB of the sport of Equestrian in the US. That is what it is responsible for. USEF makes and enforces rules pertaining to that sport
rules that affect all exhibitors, not just minors; rules that protect horses; rules that govern the management of horse shows and other equestrian competitions; rules that pertain to High Performance Competition; rules that concern Licensed Officials; and rules that oversee such things as Drug Testing of horses and ponies, and Measurement of animals that compete in classes where they may be classified by height. “Equestrian” is a sport, but it is also an industry, so there are rules that grant licenses to produce equestrian competitions, and there is a huge department that tries to ensure that competitions are as fair as possible by the enforcement of the USEF rules. Believe me
there are a whole lot of rules!

You are suggesting that USEF should add another layer of regulation to it’s already heaping plate
the regulation against any person who has ever been charged with a sexual crime against a minor.

Seems like a fine idea. But wait! Wasn’t there a recent proposal of a similar nature? Wasn’t there (last year, I think) a wildly passionate petition to deny membership to any person who has ever been convicted of a crime against a horse.

What happened to that one? It went down in flames, that’s what happened. And why? For the same reason that this one will likely be passed over by USEF. And that (actually, those) reasons are (drum roll):

  • It would take a HUGE separate department of USEF to investigate suspects, take action against them, and then see to it that no such person either attends a show as a spectator, or a trainer, or an exhibitor, or as an Official, Manager, or Staff member....or acts as an employee of a show facility and cleans the bathroom at the fairgrounds, or in ANY way could interact with a child! My guess would be that to cover these costs, membership dues in USEF would hover in the $1000 per year area!
  • And let's not forget the costs of defending the litigation that would result from folks who were falsely accused and whose careers and lives were ruined because of that. And the lawsuit against USEF that would surely fly out of the offices of the ACLU. And I bet some folks who had made one big mistake, gone to jail, done their parole, and now were denied the right to work in the only business where they had any qualifications, might seek out the loudest bleeding heart liberal attorney that they could find to "Get" the organization that was denying them the right to earn a living in their area of choice.
  • OK....but what about the Judges? (Horse show judges, that is.) The " Do you want your child [U]judged[/U] by a pervert?" argument. I would consider this fact...the people on the show grounds who are barred by rule and protocol from having contact with exhibitors, trainers and parents are...Ta Da... The Judges! Judges are sequestered in tiny booths...in full sight of the whole horse show, and if any judge tried to get chatty, much less rude, with a child exhibitor, a riot would break out. If the object is to insure that a weirdo- could never get a chance to have contact with a child...heck...Give 'em a Judges card! And the same goes for other Officials... Stewards and Course Designers have a ton of things to take care of...and it all goes on in full view of the whole horse show!
  • OK...What about Announcers? Yes, Announcers ( and an infamous one at that) live in dark little towers...where they are usually keeping track of the goings on in two or three rings at once, and talking over the mike as fast as their little lips can move. I wouldn't say that it is impossible for an inappropriate remark to be uttered, but in the actual "line of duty", it wouldn't be super easy to get away with. And...Announcers are not Officials. They are Staff, and they are hired by Show Managers. They have NO responsibility to USEF..they don't even have to be members. I can certainly see a point to lobbying against an Announcer to the Managers who hire him, but to the USEF? Why?
  • I am a bit unclear here. Some of you say that you are talking to Dateline and trying to get them to come in and expose the Dirty Little Secret of Horse Shows. "AA" Horse Shows...that Sandbox for the Super Rich who flaunt their indescretions in the faces of society and whose denizens endorse Child Molestation and Horse Killings and a bunch of other nasty stuff. But is this "Good For The Sport? Do the underbellies confine their nasty habit to the highest levels of the sport where the rich kids are? Has there never been a creepy little man hanging around 4-H kids, or Little League, or kids in Figure Skating or Gymnastics, Swimming, Tennis...any sport where pubescent, often wealthy, kids in revealing outfits are participating? I don't know the answer to this, but do the NGBs of those sports succeed in keeping child predators totally at bay? Or do the parents and coaches bear some onus in protect their kids? Maybe, those sports have a guy who sneaks around and lops off the balls of any jerk they see acting kinky around the kids.
  • And then their are the Trainers! Lots of nasty stuff going on with those guys! But wait! Trainers are totally unregulated by the USEF. Any dweeb with a pair of boots and a gift of gab can "train" your child or your horse for horse show purposes...and charge you a ton for the privilage. And there is NO organization or set of rules or any structure to protect your children or your horses from the bad ones...except the laws of the your State and (in some cases) the Federal Government. FORTUNATELY, this sorry fact is beginning to change, and among the disciplines, there are committees who are, as we speak, developing written standards and practices for trainers. One of these organization is the USHJA, and I hope that in the near future, there will be lists of Trainers who have signed on the line that they will follow these practices, and won't tack on a 200% commission to your horse sale and who know how to administer CPR and things like that. Morals issues are tough, and legal considerations make them tricky. How many trainers would put a check in the box that identified them as a sexual risk to children? Not many, I would venture.
So, what I am saying here is that it comes back to the Parents and to their hired advocates (Trainers and Coaches) to do their best to shield children from sexual predators. Yes, those folks (the predators, that is) are sickos and criminals, however every state has laws that frown severely on such practices. If your child is approached in an inappropriate manner, [U]Call The Cops [/U]fergodsake! They are empowered to throw those guys in jail, and they have the law and their guns to back them up. The USEF is NOT a vigilante committee whose job it is to enforce those laws! The USEF's only jurisdiction is the sport of Equestrian...and that jurisdiction covers horse sports from Local Shows through the Olympics. Personally, I think that's alot of territory, and our membership dollars are spread thin enough in taking care of horse show issues. Strange though it may seem...Horse Shows and Sex Crimes are not one and the same thing!

Some of you may think that my opinions and droll remarks suggest that I endorse and support the habits of sexual predators. PULEEZE
that is not the case! Nothing of that nature is a joke. I have poked some fun at Trainers, Judges, Horse Show Officials and managers, so it is only fair that I now confess that I am personally all of the above.(Though nowadays, I only manage unrated shows.) But I do all the other stuff at USEF shows, so if you want to think that I am guilty of every creepy or money grubbing action that some Trainers, Judges, et al have committed
well, I hate to disappoint you, so flame away if it makes you happy. And, if you really want to make sure that your kid is totally insulated from horrible people, than, I suggest that you prevent them from participation in any sports, artistic activities, or community events. We all know that besides the sports that I mentioned, the Arts are rife with folks who advocate moral laxity, and you never know about those 4-H Leaders!

Omigod
I forgot to mention in my prior list of questionable stuff that I do (Trainer, Judge, etc.)
I was an Art Major in college!:eek:

#148

Saddlebag?

I must respectfully disagree with you saddlebag. Although some of your points are valid, I think it is a little bit of giving USEF a lame excuse.

First off, of course parents need to watch there kids like hawks! Unfortunately many don’t and those kids shouldn’t suffer because it is easier to turn a blind eye.

USEF is most definitely responsible for helping provide a safe environment at their shows. That is why we don’t jump oxers backwards or let kids show without a trainer etc
 Plus look into rule gr702 part d in the rulebook. This rule says
“d. Acting or inciting or permitting any other to act in a manner contrary to the rules of the Federation, or in a manner deemed improper, unethical, dishonest,
unsportsmanlike or intemperate, or prejudicial to the best interests of the sport and the Federation.”

You speak of lawsuits from people who are wrongly accused? We are wanting to ban CONVICTED predators(or whatever the right term is) from events involving juniors. There isn’t a state in the country that would rule in favor of a case that involved banning CONVICTED predators from events that involve kids.

Another way to look at this is look at the liability USEF opens itself up to for allowing known convicted predators. What happens when a junior is abused by KK in the tower at PB(he openly invites juniors to come join him there). I’ll tell you
The uber rich parent sues USEF, Stadium Jumping, Phelps(sp) media and anyone else who is within 5 miles. The cost of that suit will dwarf 20 years of cost involved in running a simple background check and any ACLU wacko case.

In Florida (and most states) the state provides a free online search for convicted sexual predators.

Or
When dateline does a “To Catch a Predator” show from a big show. You wont see to many first time junior riders being brought to there first lesson. This sport doesn’t survive that kind of hit. Anyone remember how big of a hit this sport took when the “Tommy Burns Story” aired?

We don’t need to investigate anything just run a 2 second free online background check. If a person has done bad things to a kid that person doesn’t get to come work around our kids.

Of course there are all sorts of unethical trainers out there but we cant use that as a reason to allow the worst of the worst.

I believe in as little regulation in the world as possible but without some sort rules we have anarchy and child abuse.

#149

USEF really doesn’t seem to be able to see the forest for the trees when it comes to the horse killers/child abusers. They sit there acting terrified of lawsuits from individuals claiming they were “wrongfully accused” (and let me remind you we built those rule change proposals very carefully to AVOID that, so your argument falls flat, Saddlebag - if they are FIRST proven guilty by a court of competent jurisdiction they should NOT be on the show grounds) - but USEF fails to see that it is THIS CLOSE to a huuuuuuuuuuge class action suit involving THOUSANDS of plaintiffs across the USA. Pretty much all it’s going to take is one more big episode from the likes of KK, JS, PV, BW, etc. - and the legal costs would be so deep that this Federation would potentially be OVER. They NEED to be thinking about that, rather than protecting a couple of people they perceive as “big” or “influential” but who are, in the long-term, overall scheme of things, pretty much minor players that nobody will miss when they are gone.

Y’know, people, it only takes a couple of minutes of your time to fill in a USEF show evaluation form. And they are confidential. So DO IT.

EDIT: Another option to consider is asking USEF to invoke GR615, the Reciprocity Clause:

GR615 Reciprocity.

  1. On receipt of notice that disciplinary action has been taken by an administrative agency,
    arbitration or other tribunal body, humane society or court of law, whether civil, criminal,
    arbitral or administrative, against a person for an act which would be a violation of
    Federation rules if committed during a Licensed Competition, a National Officer of the
    Federation or the CEO or Executive Director of the Federation may make a charge against
    the person under the provisions of Chapter 6 and following a hearing, the Hearing
    Committee may impose any penalty provided for in Chapter 7.
#150

**

#151

Well the USEF can just say sorry we’ve already hired someone else. That is not against the law. It’s just a cop out to say we have to because we fear a lawsuit. That’s a bunch of crap. :mad:

As for the molester/rapist of children as well as adults are the most disgusting people who IMO CANNOT be rehabiliated. I don’t care who they are and how great they are
I won’t do business with them for anything. More people out there need to think like this. I don’t care if they “also need to make a living”, they should have thought about that before they runied some poor kid and their family for their sick fun. :mad: By standing by and saying nothing
I think in some ways we as a society are spending out a message that its ok to do these things. IT’S NOT!! :mad:

For the parents at these shows, either don’t go or I would personally heckle these people. Embarass them so much that they won’t come back. I applaud the OP for starting this and hopefully more people will come forward and fight back.

#152

I am still amazed that KK is still working as an announcer. Why? What big connections does this person have
? He does not train, sell, judge. ?? The posting here imply that show managements are under pressure to hire him. Ok - let’s assume that. So, somehow he is so important to his employer, that the employer will take on this baggage to push his services? Wow, this must be big. And ugly to boot.

Right after KK was arrested on the probation violation, I talked to a friend of mine who unlike me competes at the highest levels. Her comment: he’ll never work again. Next thing, he’s managing the website for __. OK, safe enough. A few months go by, and he’s back announcing.

PARENTS and COMPETITORS: just say no to propping this up. Help the trainers by making this decision yourself and telling your trainer why you will not participate at __. Back them up when they take a stand here and be vocal about why your barn is not attending __ show. If continuing this situation bothers you, act accordingly - push the issue, you can make a difference. Don’t tell USEF to do it. You can make it change.

#153

I’m afraid nothing will happen until someone presses charges against someone who is a convicted sex offender, and the incident happens on the showgrounds. Then the show management will get sued out of existence–and other shows will start banning the known offenders because it will mean they will be sued too, or the national organizations that say they can’t do anything about the offenders will be a party to the suit, and anyone at the organizations that was stupid enough to say they can’t ban the person will have their name on the suit too. Money apparently is the only thing that some people care about, and the lifelong physical and psychological damage suffered by victims of predators doesn’t seem to be more important than their friendship with some creep. (By the way I’ve heard KK is so rich he doesn’t need the announcing jobs-so there must be some other reason he’s hanging out at all the shows)

#154

Remember that the USEF doesn’t hire announcers, individual show management does. So when a show hires a known sex offender to announce, the show has to feel the effect, and know why it’s being boycotted. Sadly, it’s mostly the very fashionable shows where the announcing goes on, and most people are going to be unwilling to give them up.

The rest of the time, the issue is the press credentials. That is the place where USEF intervention could make a difference. Individual show management doesn’t hire the press coverage. If there is inappropriate behavior on show grounds, it will have to be reported in order for anything to change. Show management won’t want that kind of liability, and may then pressure the media for a different rep.

#155

Anyone else find it sad this topic fell back to page 4?

So now I am curious what if anything some of you have done or are doing to demostrate the outrage expressed here? I’ve read what Corsica’s barn has done and commend their courage. I wrote a letter to USEF and sent an email to Hugh Kincannon netiher of which were answered to.

If letter writing doesn’t work what else do we do? Drop this whole thing and let KK continue roving the show circuits until some other kid is accosted? Seriously do we just give up in the name of points or fear of Phelps?

#156

I’m working on a little something that I plan to release shortly that has the potential to be a good and powerful message to send to the USEF, in fact, I plan on hand delivering it myself to a certain someone when the time comes. :slight_smile: Just trying to manage my time with all the stuff on my plate right now (school, relationship, working, etc.) is forcing some things to get juggled. It’s also hard to make the right statement so that in itself is a bit of a problem when dealing with bureaucracy that tends to send the message of “So what do you want us to do about it?”. Obviously many of us would not like sex offenders to be part of the USEF shows (especially those involving young riders and we all know one in particular who has had a lot of work in that area), rider development programs, or representation of the country but the fact is that there are some big names and big money donors who don’t want that to happen because they have a lot to lose if information about their activities and indiscretions were to make it’s way to the headlines should the right people choose to come forward so I expect anything that is geared towards changing the way things are being done now to be greatly opposed or blocked as it has been in the past with subjects like this. Any of you who have been involved in trying to bring about change (I know some of you have attempted to introduce rule changes and such), I’m interested in knowing what exactly happened and the particular responses of the USEF towards your proposed rule changes so I can get a better understanding (if understanding is even possible) of what goes on.

#157

Was just wondering whatever happened to LexInVa’s project? Because me and friends certainly saw kk making the rounds at all the Indoors. He announced and wander all about Capital Challenge and from there on to other events.

BTW Mason seems to be on a rampage too. Everything from posting rants on his web site about theft of it to protecting kk and our personal favorite that someone in our neighbors barn just sent us where mason’s site was being dished and he made quite the comment! Showing his true colors on another bullentin board. Here’s the link
http://www.horseshowspy.com/viewtopic.php?t=4243

Maybe with the buy out in Welly World these creeps will be put on the street with the rest of the trash. We all sent a ton of letters to USEF, USHJA, several show managers, and none of the organizations responded. Only one was Classic Company who assured us kk would not be a concern at their shows. How sad that what used to be thought of as a family oriented sport seems to now a days forgotten about family values all together.

#158

[QUOTE=corsica;2793635]
Was just wondering whatever happened to LexInVa’s project? Because me and friends certainly saw kk making the rounds at all the Indoors. He announced and wander all about Capital Challenge and from there on to other events.

BTW Mason seems to be on a rampage too. Everything from posting rants on his web site about theft of it to protecting kk and our personal favorite that someone in our neighbors barn just sent us where mason’s site was being dished and he made quite the comment! Showing his true colors on another bullentin board. Here’s the link
http://www.horseshowspy.com/viewtopic.php?t=4243

Maybe with the buy out in Welly World these creeps will be put on the street with the rest of the trash. We all sent a ton of letters to USEF, USHJA, several show managers, and none of the organizations responded. Only one was Classic Company who assured us kk would not be a concern at their shows. How sad that what used to be thought of as a family oriented sport seems to now a days forgotten about family values all together.[/QUOTE]

Well I have been told by many that my efforts would be futile since they had already tried go through the USEF methods but I’m keeping my eyes out for the right time. I think we need a catalyst event to get people motivated for my idea to work and the Soresi situation just wasn’t the right thing. It came and went like one of GMs gastrointestinal spells. We need something with coverage and weight (IE GM eats babies or something like that) before the USEF can be forced to act to save their own asses and there has to be a cohesive collective message of opposition to their inaction or uncaring attitude. I am also considering some broader alternatives but right now I’m just figuring out what works and what doesn’t in addition to tending to my own life. I am starting to think that having an alternative to the USEF that focuses specifically on domestic competition (professional or amateur) would be the best thing for everyone since there are so many issues with that organization and their goals which serve only themselves.

#159

No. Jimmy Doyle was accused by one of his former students. During investigations it was, amongst other things, discovered that the girl in question had a history of making unfounded accusations of this nature.

Jimmy was in the last minute, after having been dragged through the mud for a year and a half, offered a plea bargain by the family.
He chose to go to court where he was found innocent on all charges.

Get your facts straight please before you make a child molestor out of an innocent man!

#160

I just found this old thread. The Federation is far too slowly getting up to speed on an issue which was huge a decade ago. If the overarching issue wasn’t being handled by the effort across all Olympic sports Imfear we would still be stuck in 2007


1 Like

Get your Digital Subscription here - only $29.99 / year

Subscribe here
See gift options

Sign up to our monthly newsletter!

By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.

Copyright © 2023 The Chronicle of the Horse