Average Salary to Comfortably Afford Horses?

[AdultAmmyJumper]

I live in Southern Alberta and have a salary similar to your highest earning potential and I would find it challenging (if not impossible) to own a horse and compete at the upper levels. The cost of living here is really expensive, an acreage suitable for horses is over $1 million and then you would either need to trailer out or bring someone in for lessons which is pricey. Even if you rented an apartment ($1,200+/month) and boarded your horse ($1,000+/month), there wouldn’t be much left over to pay for upper level competitions that likely involve a lot of travel. I half lease (expenses only, no fee) and compete in 6 or 7 national competitions a year (lower level show jumping, little to no travel required) and find this is basically the MAX I can comfortably afford to do. If I owned my own horse I wouldn’t have much, if any, budget left for competitions.

I don’t want to discourage you though, there are a lot of people who are much better at living modestly than I am, and who can make their equestrian dreams work. If I were you and had the opportunity to choose a career path, I would aim for one whose highest earnings potential was greater than 100K, $100k just doesn’t go as far as it used to, and it’s only going to get worse.

[Scribbler]

I agree, from what I’ve read on the Farm forum here, many people end up not riding much once they start doing farm maintenance. Especially if the horses are out on pasture so they don’t need exercise, and they don’t have an indoor arena. You would need an indoor arena anywhere in Canada if you want to train over the winter (about $100,000 to build; a good all weather outdoor arena can run up to $50,000 depending on how much drainage you need).

Most amateurs who are competing seriously in any discipline are in a discipline specific training barn with strong training and coaching support, not on their own acreage. The few that are, would be at the stage where they can really do their own training themselves. Someone who is pretty much as competent as a pro trainer but chooses to remain amateur by just doing their own horses. This might be a later career move.

There is also a current thread called “how much it really costs to own a horse,” which is useful to this discussion.

And as has already been said, it depends whether your goal is just to ride a PSG test at a local Bronze show and get a score of 61, or if you want to compete extensively and do well on a larger stage. It’s the larger stage that gets expensive. The larger stage doesn’t even really exist in Western Canada; you can go much higher with jumpers at Spruce Meadow or Thunderbird than you can with dressage out here.

[AMWookey]

I think if you look at the maritimes, you have a better bet of affording it. There are some decent coaches down there, that do travel and compete, and you won’t be spending all your money on living expenses. There are some solid equestrian locations that may not have everything that Ontario has, but livable weather, housing expenses etc.

As well, while there may be some economic depression there, there are certainly occupations that make a comparable wage that they need people in. The medical field is definitely one of those areas.

[ace]

There are so many variables. The best places to live for close access to both FEI level dressage trainers and shows are probably Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto, which also have the highest cost of living. Maybe consider Edmonton. Cheaper than the 3 big cities, but decent trainers and recognized shows are reasonably close.

$100K salary isn’t much when you are talking about showing at FEI levels and living in the major centres. If that is your main priority I would forget about owning a farm. Echoing others - when you start working full time, if you also have your own property and barn you will quickly use up most of your free time and money maintaining the property rather than riding.

For that very reason, I live in town and board my horse, and have no children by choice so I can make the time to ride 6 days a week when I am not traveling for work. I am focused on jumpers, but as you already know to successfully train beyond low levels of dressage riding 5-6 days a week is necessary both for your own and your horse’s fitness.

I make a 6 figure salary and so does my spouse, but I still have never paid 5 figures for a horse, and can’t really imagine doing it. I buy rehab/retrain projects with a 4 figure price tag and bring them along, but that’s also what I enjoy most, and am not as focused on competing.

[streamline]

@Scribbler

I agree, from what I’ve read on the Farm forum here, many people end up not riding much once they start doing farm maintenance. Especially if the horses are out on pasture so they don’t need exercise, and they don’t have an indoor arena. You would need an indoor arena anywhere in Canada if you want to train over the winter (about $100,000 to build; a good all weather outdoor arena can run up to $50,000 depending on how much drainage you need).

Most amateurs who are competing seriously in any discipline are in a discipline specific training barn with strong training and coaching support, not on their own acreage. The few that are, would be at the stage where they can really do their own training themselves. Someone who is pretty much as competent as a pro trainer but chooses to remain amateur by just doing their own horses. This might be a later career move.

There is also a current thread called “how much it really costs to own a horse,” which is useful to this discussion.

And as has already been said, it depends whether your goal is just to ride a PSG test at a local Bronze show and get a score of 61, or if you want to compete extensively and do well on a larger stage. It’s the larger stage that gets expensive. The larger stage doesn’t even really exist in Western Canada; you can go much higher with jumpers at Spruce Meadow or Thunderbird than you can with dressage out here.

Yes having horses at home is a PITA, especially if you don’t have ‘help’ I spend more time fixing fence and adding stuff than I do riding! We don’t have an indoor but thankfully are 5 minutes from several nice ones. That adds having a truck and trailer payment.

Boarding is almost more ideal. After working 10 hour days and then going and dealing with the horses it gets old.

[Gwyneth]

Thank you so much everyone! These comments are very useful and are giving me a lot to think about.

To answer some of the questions, I currently live just outside of Vancouver where the cost of living is ridiculously high (minimum 1.5mil to afford a tiny, dumpy acreage). Because of this, I want to move to one of the maritime provinces. I really love it out there and the more affordable housing prices are very appealing.

I keep my horses at home now (with my parents), so I’m fine with the amount of work and maintenance having horses at home entails. I really couldn’t imagine a life where I didn’t have them in my backyard.

As far as what “type” of FEI I want to do, I’m honestly unsure. As a kid, I of course had the “Olympic dream”, and I still get twinges to go back to that. However, I know that having a full time job outside of horses wouldn’t realistically leave any time for me to pursue that. Mostly, my riding goals boil down to I simply want to have fun and enjoy horses. For me, competing is an aspect that I love, especially higher level competition. I would want to reach Grand Prix, even if I only showed at that level locally. I want to have nice enough horses so that I would feel comfortable moving up the levels and not look like my horse was struggling.

In whatever job I do, I want enough time to be able to work with my horses. So, I’ve decided against a MD (I was interested in radiology) because I don’t think the crazy hours would be compatible, even though the pay is quite enticing. In Canada, the tuition to become a PA ends up only being about 30k, so I wouldn’t be in too much debt at the end of it in comparison to the student debt associated with other higher-paying jobs, which certainly appeals to me.

[AMWookey]

@Gwyneth

Thank you so much everyone! These comments are very useful and are giving me a lot to think about.

To answer some of the questions, I currently live just outside of Vancouver where the cost of living is ridiculously high (minimum 1.5mil to afford a tiny, dumpy acreage). Because of this, I want to move to one of the maritime provinces. I really love it out there and the more affordable housing prices are very appealing.

I keep my horses at home now (with my parents), so I’m fine with the amount of work and maintenance having horses at home entails. I really couldn’t imagine a life where I didn’t have them in my backyard.

As far as what “type” of FEI I want to do, I’m honestly unsure. As a kid, I of course had the “Olympic dream”, and I still get twinges to go back to that. However, I know that having a full time job outside of horses wouldn’t realistically leave any time for me to pursue that. Mostly, my riding goals boil down to I simply want to have fun and enjoy horses. For me, competing is an aspect that I love, especially higher level competition. I would want to reach Grand Prix, even if I only showed at that level locally. I want to have nice enough horses so that I would feel comfortable moving up the levels and not look like my horse was struggling.

In whatever job I do, I want enough time to be able to work with my horses. So, I’ve decided against a MD (I was interested in radiology) because I don’t think the crazy hours would be compatible, even though the pay is quite enticing. In Canada, the tuition to become a PA ends up only being about 30k, so I wouldn’t be in too much debt at the end of it in comparison to the student debt associated with other higher-paying jobs, which certainly appeals to me.

Based on what you are saying, I would definitely give the maritimes a solid go. There is currently a large facility for sale in the Annapolis Valley with an indoor for I think 525,000 CAD or somewhere near that, which should give you an idea of costs.

Living out east isn’t the barren wasteland a lot of folks seem to think it is for horses. No it’s not Ontario or BC, but there are shows, instructors, and like minded folks there that get clinics out. I am a born and raised maritimer, moved to Ontario for the military (Kingston/Ottawa/Petawawa) and now live in NC (still for work). We will likely never get to live in the maritimes again, and both my husband and I would have loved to. I still have plenty of friends heavily involved in the industry at home, and I love hearing about everything they are bringing to the table.

[ace]

The maritimes are beautiful. Keep in mind that the salaries also tend to be lower to match the lower cost of living, hence why a lot of maritimers have moved to other provinces for work. Not sure if the salary disparity is present for all medical positions, but I thought I read somewhere that Nova Scotia family doctors are paid substantially less than family doctors in other provinces. So that might factor into your budget planning down the road.

[hillary_again]

Great topic! OP, I think you are on the right track no matter what: find a way to increase your salary and earnings potential as much as you can, with an eye to balancing this against the cost of the education. PA is a great option.

Having said that, I don’t know what your retirement system is in Canada, but in the US, you would need to think about savings for that as well. This may nip your finances more than you are currently estimating.

I would not think about having my own horse setup on the income you described. On the other hand, in the central area of the US, you could probably find a way to make this work: land is cheaper, and you might be able to slash your commute time. But as someone pointed out, your time at work may get in the way of the training and practice needed to compete at the level you described.

As a teenager, I had a competitive show horse that I boarded in a neighborhood near my home, on my way to high school. It took me like 5 minutes to bike to the barn, and I managed to show on a super tight budget.

As a professional, in another part of the US, I could not replicate this setup: just had too many career demands, no way to live close to boarding stables and where I worked, and so forth. I finally just gave up showing and enjoy riding my current not-so-competitive horse.

[Jo]

I’ll go ahead and say it.

Whatever you make, it’s never enough.

I graduated from U in 2002 and made $27,000 at an entry level job. I make exponentially more than that now and it is just… not… enough!

Sad, but true.

[Gwyneth]

@Jo

I’ll go ahead and say it.

Whatever you make, it’s never enough.

I graduated from U in 2002 and made $27,000 at an entry level job. I make exponentially more than that now and it is just… not… enough!

Sad, but true.

Yes, I’ve came to realize this even when I was a junior and having my parents contribute to most of my horsey costs!

However, it seems that most jobs (by searching online) rarely make more than 100k, unless you want to do some high level corporate job or something like an actuary (or a doctor, of course, but I’ve already ruled that out as a career for me).

For people who do make over 100k, what do you do? Anything in the health field?

[joiedevie99]

@Gwyneth

Yes, I’ve came to realize this even when I was a junior and having my parents contribute to most of my horsey costs!

However, it seems that most jobs (by searching online) rarely make more than 100k, unless you want to do some high level corporate job or something like an actuary (or a doctor, of course, but I’ve already ruled that out as a career for me).

For people who do make over 100k, what do you do? Anything in the health field?

I’ve been where you are. It’s why I’m a lawyer.

Location/salary is a tricky one. If you can truly find a job where the salary is similar in a lower cost of living place - you’ll be set. I’m just outside NYC, so extremely high cost of living, but correspondingly high salaries.

In terms of people in the medical field who have 2+ horses in full training at that level, I know one psychiatrist, one divorce therapist, one plastic surgeon, one dermatologist, and one Ph.D. researcher who does new drug development at a pharmaceutical company. I know one woman who is an RN, but she keeps her horses at home and trailers in for weekly lessons. I know someone in a similar situation who is a nursing home administrator for a large company.

[rockonxox]

I’m in the Midwest, which isn’t what you are looking for, but we have plenty of individuals out here easily making $100k+. Most have put in years to get to that point, some work at booming start ups, etc etc… but the cost of living is mid range and compared to the coasts it is quite reasonable and this part isn’t a podunk area at all. It is a thriving major city - different locations will just offer different things (accessibility, traffic, scenery, quick travel to other states, low cost of living, etc).

School Superintendents make well over 100k (usually) even in some rural areas, but that is a LOT of years to get to that point and you don’t start at the top - you start as an educator and you have to get your Phd. Other than that, most of those I know making that kind of money in my mid range cost area are going to be doctors, psychiatrists, private practice lawyers or those with lots of experience in the gov’t (not entry level), judges, some medical research positions, pharmaceutical manager, etc. I know a lot of people working in law enforcement making 100k… but the hours are not ideal if you want to do riding and, of course, it takes a long time to get to that point and/or highly affected by overtime. I’ve had a friend in sales making at least $140k/yr about 5 years ago, but that are very talented at what they do and sales is hard. The company went under so now they do quality assurance for about half as much. I’m in corporate and it isn’t a bad gig, if you are good at it it is almost sickening how much the higher tier (even just at the senior manager level) makes.

[luvmycabanaboy]

Working adjacent to Healthcare Recruiting in my real job, I have to chime in that your estimates for midlevel provider salaries seem very low…In the States, we are recruiting at $110K-$120k even in low cost of living areas, and $140K-$160K +production related bonus is not out of the realm of possibility with less than 5 years experience…

If I were able to do it all over, I’d probably go the CRNA route (anesthesiology) - about the same number of years of additional schooling as a physician assistant, and CRAZY GOOD compensation comparatively. May be different in Canada though…

[AMWookey]

@Gwyneth

Yes, I’ve came to realize this even when I was a junior and having my parents contribute to most of my horsey costs!

However, it seems that most jobs (by searching online) rarely make more than 100k, unless you want to do some high level corporate job or something like an actuary (or a doctor, of course, but I’ve already ruled that out as a career for me).

For people who do make over 100k, what do you do? Anything in the health field?

The Canadian Military has recently made physician assistants an officer trade. You would have to talk to a recruiter, and you won’t always have control over where you are posted but… it’s what we call a purple trade which means you would never be restricted to a certain type of base. You could be east or west coast, central, out west… any type of base. Your benefits are as solid as they come, your base salary as a junior officer is still higher then average university grad, and if they do pay for your course, you only owe so much back (I think its 2 months for every month of school paid, but don’t quote me.). You would be going to school paid for, including all your supplies, and depending where you go to school, you may get living assistance.

For example, my SIL joined when she got accepted to med school UBC. She received a large signing bonus, she gets over 1500$ a month for living expenses because of Vancouvers cost of living, she makes the same wage as any junior officer, when she goes to do rural placements etc, she receives her room, food and incidentals so it is no cost to her.

The military isn’t for everyone, and isn’t the greatest if you want horses at home. My husband and I are both serving members, we each have young OTTBs, and we both compete. I have numerous friends who are living their dream with horses, even if a bit unorthodox, while being active serving members. Also - for those from the States who don’t believe it’s possible, please realize that our militaries are vastly different. We are currently posted to Fort Bragg and it’s honestly not the same situation at all.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions! I currently telecommute (remote work), for the Canadian Army while living my best life in NC 😁

[Gwyneth]

@luvmycabanaboy

Working adjacent to Healthcare Recruiting in my real job, I have to chime in that your estimates for midlevel provider salaries seem very low…In the States, we are recruiting at $110K-$120k even in low cost of living areas, and $140K-$160K +production related bonus is not out of the realm of possibility with less than 5 years experience…

If I were able to do it all over, I’d probably go the CRNA route (anesthesiology) - about the same number of years of additional schooling as a physician assistant, and CRAZY GOOD compensation comparatively. May be different in Canada though…

Salaries for PAs in Canada are much lower than in the States. PAs are still a relatively new thing in Canada, so their wages are expected to increase to closer to $150k maybe in a few years, but for now, it’s closer to $100k.

CRNAs actually make less than PAs in Canada. Going the nursing route would involve a bit of backtracking for me at this point in my schooling, so it’d be longer than just going into PA school.

[Scribbler]

@Gwyneth

Yes, I’ve came to realize this even when I was a junior and having my parents contribute to most of my horsey costs!

However, it seems that most jobs (by searching online) rarely make more than 100k, unless you want to do some high level corporate job or something like an actuary (or a doctor, of course, but I’ve already ruled that out as a career for me).

For people who do make over 100k, what do you do? Anything in the health field?

In Canada at least, getting up over $100,000 does really start to put you in the top 10%. It depends a bit on region, of course. Now if you are in the professions, or hanging around at an expensive barn, it can start to seem that everyone is in that income bracket. But in reality it is just a small slice of the population. Of course income is often calculated as “household income,” and a couple each earning $100,000 and pooling their expenses are much better off than one person earning $100,000.

You can have a “household income” of $100,000 with each person making $50,000.

This of course raises the question of who is buying all these $1.5 million bungalows in Vancouver? And all the $700,000 one bedroom condos? I think a lot of it is money laundering, and it’s no surprise that the housing market sales have flatlined in the year after marijuana was finally legalized.

[Gwyneth]

@AMWookey

The Canadian Military has recently made physician assistants an officer trade. You would have to talk to a recruiter, and you won’t always have control over where you are posted but… it’s what we call a purple trade which means you would never be restricted to a certain type of base. You could be east or west coast, central, out west… any type of base. Your benefits are as solid as they come, your base salary as a junior officer is still higher then average university grad, and if they do pay for your course, you only owe so much back (I think its 2 months for every month of school paid, but don’t quote me.). You would be going to school paid for, including all your supplies, and depending where you go to school, you may get living assistance.

For example, my SIL joined when she got accepted to med school UBC. She received a large signing bonus, she gets over 1500$ a month for living expenses because of Vancouvers cost of living, she makes the same wage as any junior officer, when she goes to do rural placements etc, she receives her room, food and incidentals so it is no cost to her.

The military isn’t for everyone, and isn’t the greatest if you want horses at home. My husband and I are both serving members, we each have young OTTBs, and we both compete. I have numerous friends who are living their dream with horses, even if a bit unorthodox, while being active serving members. Also - for those from the States who don’t believe it’s possible, please realize that our militaries are vastly different. We are currently posted to Fort Bragg and it’s honestly not the same situation at all.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions! I currently telecommute (remote work), for the Canadian Army while living my best life in NC 😁

This sounds really interesting! I’ll have to do more research into it and figure out how it works, but if I have any questions I’ll send you a PM Thanks!

[EventingMaff]

@Gwyneth

For people who do make over 100k, what do you do? Anything in the health field?

Nothing in the health field - but I do earn well over 100k and the classic adage holds very true for me: it’s time or money and you rarely have both simultaneously

During my PhD I had really flexible time but basically no money. Now I have great money but practically zero time. So the question is not just “how do I get more then 100k” it’s “how do I get more then 100k and time for my horses”.

You clearly are aware of this (given your choice about Med School). I’m one of those with a high level corporate job (or something similar at least) but will likely be looking to move out to a less demanding job that will require a paycut, but will give me more time to ride (currently I get 2-3 rides in a good week). There are the rare roles that are high paying with flexible hours, but they are few and far between and generally the exception not the rule.

There are ALWAYS trade-offs, you need to decide which you are comfortable with. Location? Work hours? Risk/self-employed? Benefits? Competitive ambitions? Boarding vs at-home?

Unfortunately, it’s very unlikely you can have it all. If you REALLY REALLY don’t want to compromise, I suggest marrying rich - really rich

[Gwyneth]

@EventingMaff

Unfortunately, it’s very unlikely you can have it all. If you REALLY REALLY don’t want to compromise, I suggest marrying rich - really rich

Lol, yes, that has crossed my mind :winkgrin: