Just asking, I thought Friesian studs weren’t allowed to breed to off breeds, at risk of losing their ability to register pure offspring after that?
I believe it’s Fjords you’re thinking of.
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i was F’ing close:lol::lol:
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I have a yearling stud colt…Registered Percheron…I had planned to breed this mare to him when he was old enough to get the job done…This mare was at the farrier to get reset. The owner mistook my horse for someone elses horse ( that was there to be bred not shod) and bred her to his registered Freisan. I did have an US confirming the pregnancy by my vet. I am NOT terminating the pregnancy because my child wants the foal. The only reason for this post was to get opinions on what the foal might look like. The mare is NOT brown like a normal bay…I have had horses a long time and if thought she was bay I would have said that. She looks like every other Percheron/Belgian cross I have ever seen. I described her just as she looks. The horse community is unfortunately filled with critical assholes who always know everything about anything and are always right. I knew there would be a post about proper feeding…LOL If you really want to know I collaborate with Mr Allebaugh from Windermere farms regarding my feeding program for my drafts. The mare as well as the rest of my horses get Equilete double play or triple play. The latter contains fertility EQ which is specifically formulated for reproduction and nutrition of the gravid mare. I do not have horses to compete or make money. I enjoy riding, driving, and skidding logs with them. I have always had drafts and would never intentionally cross one with a light breed that I have little to no experience with and asked a question in what I thought was the appropriate section of this forum to see if someone might have an idea of what it may look like. Thanks to all who have replied constructively.
I am NOT terminating the pregnancy because my child wants the foal.
These 2 things aren’t congruent. You shouldn’t be more concerned about what your child wants, than you are about potentially producing a “nightmare frankenhorse”.
And you ARE more likely to get a foal that is not a nice blend of the 2. Friesian crosses end up badly a lot more often than they end up decent, let alone nice. You can easily get the “sausage” body with a long, weak loin that is too-common in the Friesian breed, with the heavy body or at least a draft shoulder and neck, light hind end, and too-light Friesian legs. You might get the Friesian heat intolerance too. Is your mare tested negative for PSSM? If not, let’s potentially throw that into the mix too. I can’t tell enough about your mare from that picture to judge anything of her quality. Is she goose rumped? If so, let’s throw that into the potential mix of a light end and heavy front end.
Since your mare is half Belgian, which tend to have much heavier front ends, you should assume the Belgian side of that shoulder and neck may well come out. Belgians are not a breed to cross on light breeds.
The Friesian might not be truly a “light horse”, but they are very different body types from both Belgian and Percheron. As you said, there is too much variability.
Is that really the foal you want to bring into this world?
The owner said I could register the foal as a fresian just because it is at least 1/2 Fresian. Not really sure how that works
It doesn’t, and if that’s what the owner really believes and said (and not just your mis-interpretation) then I would question the quality of the stallion, especially since he thinks it’s ok to outcross Friesians to drafts, and that he doesn’t have his operation such that he made this mistake.
Despite some info above about crossbreeding not being allowed, that’s not quite true. Straight from FHANA:
"Cross breeding of Studbook Stallions with Approved Breeding Privileges to mares of other breeds is strongly discouraged. "
If the stallion isn’t even approved, then you have few registration options. AWR (I think that’s the one that allows draft blood?), or if there is any part-draft registry, are likely about it.
She looks like pretty much any normal bay horse in that picture. Nothing about anything suggests any other possibility.
If you really want to know I collaborate with Mr Allebaugh from Windermere farms regarding my feeding program for my drafts. The mare as well as the rest of my horses get Equilete double play or triple play. The latter contains fertility EQ which is specifically formulated for reproduction and nutrition of the gravid mare.
Fertility EQ is a very lightly fortified flax supplement. Nothing amazing about it. Excellent marketing though.
Double Play is an ok v/m supplement. Hopefully you will read up on how to feed a pregnant mare, because their nutritional needs are a lot more than that.
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Actually, FHANA (the American branch of the Dutch Friesian registry FPS) USE to have a rule that prohibited APPROVED Friesian stallions from breeding to non-Friesians. The stallion in question with OP is not approved, obviously, so that rule wouldn’t apply anyway. And that rule was overturned years ago - so now FHANA doesn’t recommend cross breeding, but doesn’t prohibit it.
The German Friesian registry (FHS/FPZV, whatever they are now) always did allow cross breeding. There was also a small registry in Europe specifically for Friesian/Arabian crosses (AraboFriesian, sometimes called Turbo Friesians in the US).
@JB - there are a lot of very nice Friesian crosses here in the US. Personally, I’m not into the Draft/Friesian cross, too heavy for what I like to do, but they are VERY popular with a lot of riders. And some of them, in spite of their bulk, show some talent for dressage. I haven’t seen a lot of Franken-crosses, and usually when I do see a cross that is - bad - it is often simply the result of two low quality parents. There are people who think anything black and hairy should be a stallion, and that it can improve on anything with a uterus. And that is where you get the worst of the crosses. And that is true of many breeding programs - crap+crap often = crap. Since OP says this stallion is actually a nice one, there is THAT bit of relief.
I use to breed Friesian crosses, and never had a Franken-horse. All were nice movers, athletic, mostly good temperaments (a trait the Friesian is known for). One is owned by an S judge, several have done quite well in sports. Top 5 in state championships, intercollegiate championships, USDF awards, etc. And I know many others who have bred nice horses as well. I know this isn’t all that relevant to OPs question, although it kind of is. But as someone who is involved in “that” world, I always like to point out that there are a lot, LOT of really nice FXs. An S judge did an educational event on different types/conformations and how they do in sports, and she said “don’t discount the Friesian crosses” - she’s judged several at the FEI levels and really liked them.
As for registries, there are a couple of registries specifically supporting Friesian crosses - http://www.friesianheritage.com/ is the one I recommend because of their serious research, education, support for both purebreds and crosses.
I would never recommend someone keep a foal that wasn’t purposefully bred. But it sounds like OP is keeping the foal, and is looking for information, so in respect of that request, there are examples out there, and may even be examples she can see in person, since the Amish do this cross on purpose because there is a market for it. There are also some non-Amish breeders doing this kind of cross on purpose. It most likely isn’t going to produce a sport horse type - but not all riders WANT a sport horse… And OP - perhaps that is part of the issue with the responses - you are on a SPORT HORSE breeding forum. You might check with the registry I linked above - they might be able to direct you to some good information, and their website has a lot of good info on it.
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How is it that unintentional unwanted crosses take the first time by my planned, researched, timed down to the minute breeding didn’t take???
Horses! Life is so unfair.
OP, the goal will probably be black or bay (because that is definitely a plain bay mare) with a big head. There is a Very Small chance of chestnut (aka sorrel), IF the site has hidden chestnut (unlikely).
if your karma is good, you could get a decent light draft. If you are the kind of person who doesn’t know what they want to order when they finally make it to the front of the line at Starbucks or drives 10 under in the fast lane, you could get a big headed, ewe necked, thin legged sausage.
No way of knowing until it drops.
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I didn’t know that, good info! Interestingly enough, the few nice crosses I’ve seen - not just “not bad”, but actually nice, have been Arabian crosses.
@JB - there are a lot of very nice Friesian crosses here in the US.
They must be hiding LOL Anything crossed with a Friesian seem to be proudly shown off, and most of what I have seen over the years are not all that nice. Are you seeing them in the show world? That might be the difference. I’ve seen quite a lot of Appy, QH, TB (tends to be nicer than most), some Vanner, and a few other crosses, and while those mares aren’t terrible in terms of breeding quality (maybe not perfect, but not “omg don’t breed that” either), the crosses just don’t seem to end up all that nice most of the time.
I do think the problem is there are too many stallions who are full blooded, but not good enough for approvals, so they get outcrossed all the time for the “fantasy” horses. I also think a major player is not just poorer quality outcross individuals, but simply the wrong type to have a good chance of complimenting a Friesian. The nicest ones I’ve seen have been crosses with Arabians and Morgans. Those 2 breeds in general, especially with quality individuals, seem to be much more prepotent for a strong type than a lot of other breeds.
Since OP says this stallion is actually a nice one, there is THAT bit of relief.
I’m not sure I’d outright believe it’s a nice one, as I would think that any owner of a truly nice Friesian stallion would not be a fan of breeding to drafts :
I use to breed Friesian crosses, and never had a Franken-horse. All were nice movers, athletic, mostly good temperaments (a trait the Friesian is known for). One is owned by an S judge, several have done quite well in sports. Top 5 in state championships, intercollegiate championships, USDF awards, etc. And I know many others who have bred nice horses as well. I know this isn’t all that relevant to OPs question, although it kind of is. But as someone who is involved in “that” world, I always like to point out that there are a lot, LOT of really nice FXs. An S judge did an educational event on different types/conformations and how they do in sports, and she said “don’t discount the Friesian crosses” - she’s judged several at the FEI levels and really liked them.
I certainly agree there are nice ones. A friend’s ArabianxFriesian is showing 4th, and is a really nice horse. She just bought a 2yo of the same mix (not the same bloodlines) and he is also very nice, and should easily take her to 4th, and likely beyond.
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Would that be Imp by any chance? I was thinking of him, beautiful example of a cross working well.
You know Imp? Yep, him! Have you seen her new youngster?
I don’t know him, have just admired him online, I’ve seen pics of the youngster…I hope he does as well for her as Imp has.
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What are the odds, right? I work to figure out the right moment to breed a mare, and someone else has one standing in cross ties being shod, takes her to a waiting stallion, breeds her, and gets her pregnant. Life is definitely unfair.:winkgrin:
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That is always the way it is… I had these (horrible) neighbors who turned out grade horses together, including a 2 year old stud colt (he was a pretty color, and that was his sole qualification), and they all got pregnant, and most of them survived, in spite of NO food, NO care, NO vaccines, nada, nothing, zippo. :lol: I think the nicer the horses, the better they are cared for, the worse your odds are Isn’t that Murphy’s Law?:eek:
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LOL I was thinking the same thing. Our mare went to a stallion but he was too short for her.
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He is obviously not being driven by the owner as he is Amish and they believe if they are photographed it captures their soul.
http://amishamerica.com/what-do-amish-think-about-photography/
I know someone who married into an Amish family, and while they aren’t as selfie-crazy as many Americans, most have no problems with photos or video these days. They understand marketing and making money 
Stallion is not a sport horse type mover, but at least he’s trained and trainable. I am always bothered by the stallion that does nothing but contribute sperm for a living…
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Since the OP drives and does skidding with her horses, and this stallion is not a sport horse, but more a driving horse, any chance that will work in OP’s favor? If not already evident, I am no breeder!
It still remains to be seen how inappropriately drafty the foal is. Any horse can be ridden and pull a cart. How soundly they are able to do it, for any real effort, over any length of time, is what matters.
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LOL im a man. Its ok though.
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Do a LOT of research into caring for a pregnant mare, including feeding to support the nutritional status of her and the fetus. Do a LOT of research into the care of a foal, including the nutrition aspect of his growth. Start planning now on how you will wean. Do you have other horses?
I am not new to horses…wouldn’t claim to be an expert but I know the draft breeds well. I have 5 other horses all drafts except for one TB mare (Desert Valley) that I rescued from the track. I also have a spotted miniature donkey. I have never bred before but was planning on getting 2-3 foals out of my stud colt I bought as a weanling. I have contacted an equine nutritionist from Penn State who said that im feeding a good ration and supplement and just to add a lb of whole roasted soybeans to boost the protein and fat. I keep my horses btw a 6-7 body condition which he agreed was appropriate for draft breeds. My only anxiety about foaling is getting the foal to nurse. Not too worried about the delivery. My vet lives close and as long as I see 2 hooves pointed down I know the foal is oriented correctly. I am an ER nurse which im not saying qualifies me to deliver a foal but I have delivered several human babies. It gives me the biologic knowledge to recognize a problem or to allow nature to do her thing. I have installed a cctv system in my barn so I can keep an eye on things. When it gets close I can monitor it from my phone. She was bred march 17 so I have quite a long time to prepare. Anyone have any other suggestions (other than the obvious routine vet checks)
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