Barisone Verdict Is In: Not Guilty By Reason of Insanity

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Sdel

@CurrentlyHorseless

I am talking exclusively of possible undesirable consequences from USEF itself for filing the complaint, if they interpret it as attempting to weaponize USEF.

Requoting to make a different point:

Making a complaint can only be considered “weaponizing” if the complaint is materially untrue and made in bad faith. So, I guess CH is fundamentally asserting that the information in that 700+ pages was factually and purposefully untrue information.

We know from the trial, GJ and Haleybot that a good chunk of the information, or what may have been included, was indeed factual.

No, I am not “fundamentally asserting” that the information in that 700+ pages was factually and purposefully untrue information”.

MHG and MB submitting documentation of LKs current harassment or threats made to them personally, or others at HH, is one thing.

The potential problem of “weaponization” arises if USEF considers the motivation for filing the complaint to be an attempt to use USEF to bludgeon another member in the context of a personal dispute.

I can see that whatever was submitted concerning HB or GJ was probably perfectly true. But reaching out to social media enemies with grievances from 5 years ago is not necessary or useful if the complaints from the current situation are serious enough. If the complaint against LK in terms of what she was doing in the last month or so to MB and MHG was serious enough to stand on its own merit, why bring in GJ and HB?

[MHM]

Nope.

[erinmeri]

@CurrentlyHorseless

But that’s how I understand MBs failing to evict LK, or even tell her to leave, in April, or May, or June, or July. She had a bargain rate on the first two horses, but he might have also eyed her as a client who would buy more horses — horses sold by him like Jay-T, or horses in which he’d earn a commission.

If MB had been clear in his own mind that he wanted LK gone (the person and the potential money), I cannot understand why he didn’t break off the client relationship much earlier. I’m left with the interpretation that he was paralyzed by conflicting pressures — his girlfriend was demanding LK goes, while he didn’t want to lose the current and potential income.

Nope. I think you are vastly overestimating the potential income from LK. $5k board + training for two horses each month. Are you forgetting the lost income from the other horses not paying their way and the apartment that came free - all for “labor” which RG testified he did the minimal possible towards in a barter agreement and that LK vastly overinflated the value of said work here and on SM? That is LOSING money.

Dry board in the area is roughly $500+ before shavings, feed, labor, etc… Most trainers do not break even on board after all is said and done. They make money on training, and more so on showing. If my memory serves, LK’s showing was baked into that $5k. (Bad business decision on MB’s part, IMO!) She had several horses living rent free. I just looked up rates I have in email from a nearby non-Olympian/non-BNT barn (granted H/J) from 2019 and they charged $2800/month for full service PLUS showing and trailering. Seems LK thought those should be included, LOL. Those stalls are more valuable filled with paying clients.

As for future commissions? 10-20% on a mid-5 to low-6 figures animal - you are talking $5k-$10k. He would get that in a month or two with clients paying full freight on those stalls. Let’s not forget she already had 5 or 6, several she wasn’t paying full freight for, with no indication she could afford to add others to her roster (or even pay full freight for those she had).

Nice try though! Again, nope.

@CurrentlyHorseless

My interpretation of the reports that MB and MHG actively reached out to LKs SM enemies like HB and GJ is that part of the 750 pages was documentation of the SM stuff not directly related to MHG and MB. That’s what I think may not look good.

Nope. If someone were harassing me, my barnmates, my trainer, etc… I would absolutely dig up dirt to establish a pattern, and would submit it with pride to SS, USEF, hell, a lawyer.

@CurrentlyHorseless

What you call my “massive lying” was saying I simply changed “MHG” to “MHG and LK”, when in fact I changed some other phrases as well?

Did I specifically state that that was the only change I made? No, I didn’t.

You implied that was the only change to “prove” how it could apply to LK and everyone here is hypocritical, but then changed the intent through other edits and omissions. So, yes, it was fundamentally dishonest and deceitful.

@CurrentlyHorseless

Re MHGs submission of the file to USEF, how would you feel about it? Would you have regrets?

Nope. I would feel DANDY!

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

why bring in GJ and HB

Again, how do you know what is in MHG’s complaint?

(As an aside, I wasn’t around then but even I know HB certainly shouldn’t be reduced to a SM enemy.)

[Davignport]

Everyone just needs to IGNORE CH’s posts. Around and around and around we go. Jeeze give it a rest for God’s sake.

[3PonyFarm]

@eggbutt, Is 48 hours aware of the gofundme account? Do they ever mention stuff like that on their shows? Even if it airs in the Fall, the fund raiser will probably still be going on.

[erinmeri]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Even if I hated LK the way you do, if I had submitted a 750+ page file, which showed I had contacted some of LKs crazy SM enemies (as opposed to just reporting current harassment directed at me and my barn mates), my regret would be that the filing might look like an attempt to weaponize SS and might have the effect of putting me (not LK) in a bad light. That’s what we’re talking about here.

Bolding mine. Nope!

Or… we could be talking about a continued pattern of harassment towards not just “SM enemies”, but real life equestrians - some of whom are or may be dues paying members of our national governing body in good standing. Some of us see a duty to report as a real thing. I know you’re “currently horseless” (hope you get one soon - I think you’d find better ways to occupy your time and I believe you’d be happier. I know I am now that I am horsed)… but SS training makes everyone mandated reporters. Yes, of sexual abuse, but we all know that the abuses in this industry go far beyond that - whether they are directed at man or beast. And the only person I can see who “weaponized SS” is LK herself. As evidenced at trial.

[BigMama1]

@CurrentlyHorseless

The potential problem of “weaponization” arises if USEF considers the motivation for filing the complaint to be an attempt to use USEF to bludgeon another member in the context of a personal dispute.

Good thing that wasn’t the case then, isn’t it? They filed a valid complaint against someone who launched a campaign of harassment and bullying against them. No matter how you spin it, that record’s just not gonna play the song you want.

[cheval_convert]

I have been thinking about this “would you regret it?” question. If I had been someone who was harassed
by LK and chose not to report it and then this whole mess happened, I would regret that I had done nothing to protect other people from her.

[erinmeri]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Re getting paid with bad checks: There’s a difference between a “bad check” and a check that is returned for insufficient funds, isn’t there? A bad check is a check written when you know the funds are not there.

Why are you CONTINUING to bring in someone who has nothing to do with this and making gross insinuations? Jeez. The grasping at straws is exhausting… as is your trying to trash anyone and everyone except LK whilst crowing about people pointing out the histories of those actually involved. Honestly, if you cared so much about not trashing people, you wouldn’t be bringing up someone who has precisely zilch to do with this whole mess.

[Scribbler]

What I don’t understand is why shared custody of kids would even be a negative thing these days. Everyone I know who had an amicable divorce has shared custody with whatever practical arrangements work for attending school and minimizing disruptions to the children’s lives. It doesn’t mean that the custody was contested or that one or the other parent isn’t fit to have full custody. It means that both are good parents and continue to cooperate for the benefit of the children. Bringing it up as a potential negative as CH appears to be trying to do is idiotic.

[erinmeri]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Surprise, surprise, I think I did nothing wrong. I edited her post to replace “MHG” with “MHG and LK” to highlight the hypocrisy and make point that all of FtzE’s lofty message about not disturbing MHGs privacy applies just as well to LK. Both were involved in the tragedy, but neither was the defendant in the case.

Not surprised that you think you did nothing wrong. You haven’t demonstrated that much self awareness. It’s actually kind of sad that you cannot or will not admit when you have been found out.

I am still behind on this thread, and I am danged sure someone has already called you out on this, but:

• only one of the parties you mention consistently posts all over the web/ speaks out publicly,
• only one of the parties you mention consistently gives (both on the web and under oath) inconsistent stories,
• only one of the parties you mention seems to welcome the scrutiny and attention and claims that “the real story” has yet to be revealed,
• only one of the parties you mention has an alleged and documented history of threatening and harassing others,
• only one of the parties you mention has filed a civil suit that opens themselves up to further scrutiny…

I could go on, but any reasonable person should get the gist. ONE of the two is asking for scrutiny. The other is not.

[erinmeri]

@FitzE

I must say, for someone who lived to play out their fantasies, revenge and otherwise, on SM, posting and getting into flame wars on YouTube comment sections is like the D list of SM presence. It must be a serious compulsion issue to be on there like that.

Has anyone checked Reddit? LOL

[erinmeri]

@CurrentlyHorseless

I know you and cohorts will vilify those you disagree with at the slightest pretext. I frankly don’t have time to stick around for it all, and figure you’ll just waste your time and get bored with it.

NOT at all true. While I have occasionally felt on the “wrong side of the argument” or felt occasionally maligned here, I have oft disagreed with the majority opinion and was never “vilified” by a horde. (Despite what a certain poster said). Yes, it occasionally got ugly with a person or two, but I put my big girl panties on and when I had disagreements, I sorted them out individually… offline.

AND, that largely went away after the facts of the case were laid bare at trial. Why? Because I am thinking with logic and reason and backing opinions with fact and personal experience.

I can even, GASP, say that I disagree with some of the discourse here… and I am not “vilified”. I know you want to believe that people just want an echo chamber, but that isn’t true. If you are reasonable and back your assertions with facts, you often get reasonable discourse. Not everyone will agree, but it rarely gets ugly. Also? Helps to admit when you’re wrong.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@erinmeri

@CurrentlyHorseless

But that’s how I understand MBs failing to evict LK, or even tell her to leave, in April, or May, or June, or July. She had a bargain rate on the first two horses, but he might have also eyed her as a client who would buy more horses — horses sold by him like Jay-T, or horses in which he’d earn a commission.

If MB had been clear in his own mind that he wanted LK gone (the person and the potential money), I cannot understand why he didn’t break off the client relationship much earlier. I’m left with the interpretation that he was paralyzed by conflicting pressures — his girlfriend was demanding LK goes, while he didn’t want to lose the current and potential income.

Nope. I think you are vastly overestimating the potential income from LK. $5k board + training for two horses each month. Are you forgetting the lost income from the other horses not paying their way and the apartment that came free - all for “labor” which RG testified he did the minimal possible towards in a barter agreement and that LK vastly overinflated the value of said work here and on SM? That is LOSING money.

Dry board in the area is roughly $500+ before shavings, feed, labor, etc… Most trainers do not break even on board after all is said and done. They make money on training, and more so on showing. If my memory serves, LK’s showing was baked into that $5k. (Bad business decision on MB’s part, IMO!) She had several horses living rent free. I just looked up rates I have in email from a nearby non-Olympian/non-BNT barn (granted H/J) from 2019 and they charged $2800/month for full service PLUS showing and trailering. Seems LK thought those should be included, LOL. Those stalls are more valuable filled with paying clients.

As for future commissions? 10-20% on a mid-5 to low-6 figures animal - you are talking $5k-$10k. He would get that in a month or two with clients paying full freight on those stalls. Let’s not forget she already had 5 or 6, several she wasn’t paying full freight for, with no indication she could afford to add others to her roster (or even pay full freight for those she had).

Nice try though! Again, nope.

I’m trying to understand why MB demonstrably did not evict LK, or ask her to leave, at any point from April through Aug 5, 2019. MHG was on record as wanting her gone as of April. I agree with you that $2,500 per horse for board and training plus apartment is a remarkably good deal. I can’t imagine it covered show entry fees.

So why didn’t he end the client relationship in April, or, better yet, not permit her to come to NJ in 2019 at all?

The only way I can understand it is that he wanted her to stay (for the money), and wanted her gone to please MHG.

If he could have replaced her with someone more pleasant to deal with who also paid more, why didn’t he?

@CurrentlyHorseless

My interpretation of the reports that MB and MHG actively reached out to LKs SM enemies like HB and GJ is that part of the 750 pages was documentation of the SM stuff not directly related to MHG and MB. That’s what I think may not look good.

Nope. If someone were harassing me, my barnmates, my trainer, etc… I would absolutely dig up dirt to establish a pattern, and would submit it with pride to SS, USEF, hell, a lawyer.

OK. I wouldn’t. I would limit it to my direct experience with the person.

@CurrentlyHorseless

What you call my “massive lying” was saying I simply changed “MHG” to “MHG and LK”, when in fact I changed some other phrases as well?

Did I specifically state that that was the only change I made? No, I didn’t.

You implied that was the only change to “prove” how it could apply to LK and everyone here is hypocritical, but then changed the intent through other edits and omissions. So, yes, it was fundamentally dishonest and deceitful.

Good grief. I changed the initials to include LK as well as MHG. That’s the basic underlying change. I changed the pronouns from singular to plural to conform. Is that OK? Of course I had to drop the “poised on the witness stand” and the “two children”and “successfully competing” since those don’t apply to LK.

But throughout, I took FitzEs intent to be saying MHG should be spared any discussion, and edited it to maintain that same intent as applied symmetrically to both women.

And yes, I think people expressing outrage when MHGs role is discussed is hypocritical, given the 2.5 years of “discussing” all aspects of LKs life. That was the entire point the post.

@CurrentlyHorseless

Re MHGs submission of the file to USEF, how would you feel about it? Would you have regrets?

Nope. I would feel DANDY!

If I had submitted the complaint, and the next day learned that my bf had shot the woman, I’d be feeling queasy.

My responses in bold.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@BigMama1

@CurrentlyHorseless

The potential problem of “weaponization” arises if USEF considers the motivation for filing the complaint to be an attempt to use USEF to bludgeon another member in the context of a personal dispute.

Good thing that wasn’t the case then, isn’t it? They filed a valid complaint against someone who launched a campaign of harassment and bullying against them. No matter how you spin it, that record’s just not gonna play the song you want.

Yes, they mailed the massive file on Aug 6, and before it reached Lexington, the “harasser” was in the ICU with gunshot wounds.

[MHM]

@CurrentlyHorseless

I frankly don’t have time to stick around for it all

Really??

You seem to spend an awful lot of time making an awful lot of extremely lengthy posts, in spite of your previous statement you were only going to post one or two times a day.

Also:

Nopity, nope, nope, nope, nope.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@erinmeri

@CurrentlyHorseless

Re getting paid with bad checks: There’s a difference between a “bad check” and a check that is returned for insufficient funds, isn’t there? A bad check is a check written when you know the funds are not there.

Why are you CONTINUING to bring in someone who has nothing to do with this and making gross insinuations? Jeez. The grasping at straws is exhausting… as is your trying to trash anyone and everyone except LK whilst crowing about people pointing out the histories of those actually involved. Honestly, if you cared so much about not trashing people, you wouldn’t be bringing up someone who has precisely zilch to do with this whole mess.

Whilst?

[eggbutt]

Yes, I’m sure they are aware of it.

[erinmeri]

@CurrentlyHorseless

The potential problem of “weaponization” arises if USEF considers the motivation for filing the complaint to be an attempt to use USEF to bludgeon another member in the context of a personal dispute.

I can see that whatever was submitted concerning HB or GJ was probably perfectly true. But reaching out to social media enemies with grievances from 5 years ago is not necessary or useful if the complaints from the current situation are serious enough. If the complaint against LK in terms of what she was doing in the last month or so to MB and MHG was serious enough to stand on its own merit, why bring in GJ and HB?

What? What if they establish a pattern of behavior? Is that not important for the NGB to know? It certainly seems “useful” to me! If I knew someone was bullying or harassing me, and I knew it was their MO… why would I want my claim to “stand on its own merit”? Dear lord…