As long as the backup rider has skills enough to WTC the horse and maintain control, considering the backup rider IS ALREADY A CLIENT, I would have a problem with it. Unless my BO could present a legit reason why she disapproved the match (her hands will cause issues, her swinging leg could make him buck…) I’d be upset. I understand liability issues and especially if a horse is in a “program” the need to not cause a regression in training, but absent a true reason, I’d be concerned that trainer or BO wanted to use my horse’s need for exercise as a bargaining chip to offer the ride to a friend, preferred pet client or otherwise.
Years ago I was the de facto back up rider for a friend’s horse at a boarding/lesson/show barn. I was also a client of this barn and a known commodity. I’d been getting on her horse every Wednesday and some other days while she was unavailable. I showed up to ride one Sunday (at her request) and was told by trainer “no, you can’t ride him today.” I thought it odd and called the owner. Owner called barn and said “Linny is to ride Captain today” and trainer replied, “But I promised him to Susie in exchange for doing stalls yesterday.” HO was not happy and overrode the trainer. There was some bad blood there but HO remained at barn, but I left. I was more upset about how my friend was treated that SHE was.
I understand that barns just can’t have people hopping on and off horses. Most barns I’ve been to have a white board on which each horse’s activity is logged and riders initial when they hack. I can see why a trainer/BO would want to see an assessment ride to determine suitability. Once that is established, assuming the backup rider is a client in good standing, I am not sure why there would be a problem.
Thafs just it, you can’t “assume the backup rider is a client in good standing” or anything else based on the details provided here. Who knows? OPs friend (or the parents) can get better advice on how to deal with this by just asking the BO why. Maybe there is a valid reason, maybe BO is being a jerk. Only those at that barn involved and the BO in that situation can know.
:lol: thanks for the chuckle :lol:
sorry, not to seem smart. It’s just funny to be thought a minor. Better than seeming old I suppose.
Well, I usually can’t tell how old somebody is by what they post and the friend didn’t even post. Advice applies to others who may be reading too. Of all ages, so I put parents in parenthesis… just in case.
I can see that as a valid rule if your friend was asking non boarders to ride her horse. If both board at that barn it makes no sense to me.
It could be that the BO doesn’t want to make exceptions for any one, and just bans all rides by friends of the horse owner. If you make an exception for one person, then everyone else will want the exception too.
Your BO’s insistence on insurance was on the mark. “Oh, but I was just doing people a favor,” provides absolutely zero liability protection should something go wrong. If you are coming into a barn and providing what could be construed as professional level services, helping rehab a horse, riding multiple horses, etc. I think you absolutely should have insurance whether or not you are getting paid, both for your own protection, and to protect a generous BO who is allowing you to enjoy the use of their facilities even though you are not yourself a paying client.
Would it make a difference if I was a boarder? Still can’t get insurance if you don’t have commercial activities. I did briefly board at that barn…still couldn’t help my friend with her rehab. I left after a very short time for other reasons.
You know you might want to ask the barn owner why just as a curiosity thing. I have a feeling this rule came out of an incident in the past that went very wrong. Especially if there are teens at the barn. Knowing the peer pressure I can get as an adult with horses from people who feel they have the right to come out and ride them. I can imagine what it is like for a teenager who might be pressured into allowing people who aren’t qualified to ride the horse and then the accident happens. Fingers pointing the whole bit. (Yes I understand not just teenagers, adults can get pressured too into the same thing) The lesson option give me a bit clue that this may be what has happened either to the BO or one other their acquantences.
I had someone at work who was pressuring me into riding one of my horses. She brought me pics of her at a dressage show so I could see what a good rider she was. Couch seat, horse inverted, counterbent … I said no many times she finally gave up and went to a lesson barn. I later heard she was in the hospital for a bad wreck during a lesson. She was in the hospital for 2.5 months.
Though I am sorry that happend to her, I can’t help but think that could have happened on my property, with my horse.
Though I don’t board horses or give lessons I can see a reason for the rule.
We only have the small sliver of information given to us from the OP. It could be that the barn was a circus a few years back and BO had to set some rules and regulations to keep things under control. There are several posts about owners being unaware that their horses were being ridden. And liability is absolutely an issue.
At the barn I grew up riding in, show barn in NJ, you were not allowed to sit on another’s person’s horse unless you had direct permission or were in a lesson. Absolutely no outside riders coming in to sit on anything unless there was a rare exception. They did this so if you went away, you would pay their trainer to exercise your horse. Also for liability - there were some fancy horses in that barn, and it was certainly a liability factor.
Most of the barns I’ve boarded at since, mostly just boarding facilities, not big show barns, you can have suitable people come ride your horse as long as the BM is notified and the rider has signed a waiver. My friends who also board with me switch horses often while we’re on vacations, it’s easier than paying someone to ride and we all appreciate the extra saddle time. Personally, I can see if you’re at a large show barn how it’s an issue or if the riders are minors, but in your case I would find that frustrating. My guess is they want the extra income for making boarders pay for training rides, and/or a liability issue.
Thinking this is very likely why BO said not outside a lesson. One does it, everybody will demand they be allowed. That’s been the reason why it was the rule in all of the more casual boarding barns I liked being in over the years. And why I never stayed long in the ones that didn’t care or pay attention who rode what as long as a release was on file…because mine got ridden behind my back every time at those barns. Learned to just avoid them in the first place even if it meant accepting more control by the barn.
Yes it was sometimes inconvenient for me but far less inconvenient then finding out thru the barn grapevine others had been riding my horse saying they had permission from me…not.
One item that is greatly underappreciated is the liability associated with people riding on the BO’s property. The rider can sign a waiver, but that doesn’t prevent an injured party from suing the BO. In addition, a waiver does not prevent the injured party’s insurance company from suing either. The BO’s insurance policy may not cover injuries that occur when one boarder rides another boarders horse.
Another factor to consider is that, equine activity statutes vary from state to state. Some states are friendly toward injured parties some favor business enterprises.
Another can of worms that can be added to the mix is, should a party be injured while performing a service for remuneration without carrying the appropriate liability insurance, the BO can be in trouble.
The notion that BO’s should allow boarders to pass their horses around among themselves and share rides, is quaint. I understand the appeal. But in the real world of business, insurance, liability and injury, it can be a recipe for disaster and not a risk that some will willingly take on without the appropriate signed contracts and insurance policies purchased. The BO’s that worked hard to build their business and don’t want to put themselves at risk may simply be making sound business decisions when they decline to permit this activity.
Interesting what a wide range of responses there are–as always on COTH 
For the record, no one in this situation is upset about it or questions the BO’s ability to make these calls. I just wondered about it since I know many people IRL who ride others’ horses in various situations and I also often read on these boards about people riding other peoples’ horses…so I merely wondered the normalcy of it. As the responses show, for some people it’s entirely normal and unusual not to allow it, while for others it’s an entirely normal rule/expectation. Normalcy is, after all, relative 
I definitely appreciate your conundrum, it’s a valid one.
Re: boarder vs. not: IMO, a person who is not one of my paying clients and with whom I have no relationship, contractual or otherwise, has zero business being on my private farm premises–let alone riding–unless they are accompanied by and supervised by one of my clients as an invited guest. So, yes, from my perspective it is much better if the rider is also a client at the same barn. Still, there are many potential issues regarding safety and liability.
Personally, I would consider a partial lease as a possible solution. This gives me a reasonable paper trail documenting that the other rider is a recreational rider and not engaging in professional activities. IMO (I’m no lawyer), it also alleviates some of the liability issues by establishing a level of familiarity of and responsibility for the horse in question. The lease agreement (plus some associated other paperwork) also gives the BO a reasonable contractual relationship with the rider in question.
The whole liability/sue happy and/or control freak thing is sad. When I was a kid part of what made me a better rider was riding other boarder’s horses. A few of the boarders were kind enough to let me ride their horses in addition to my own, mainly because they didn’t have time. They were just pleasure/ trail horses for the most part, but one lady’s horse I worked, showed, and won quite a bit locally (long story- horse unsuitable for her) and they all taught me something.
Re insurance, you can insure anything if you’re willing to pay the premium!
Since no money is changing hands, would a personal umbrella policy cover the risk? My guess that it would as most have a pretty broad form contract. We’d have to read the policy to be sure.
I’ve never researched the issue of riding the horse of another without compensation on the question of liability, for either the exercise rider or the BO. It would depend on the state, I presume.
As a former BO I can understand the rule. It’s clear, concise, and reasonable from the perspective of the BO. Once you start making exceptions then you have to manage two different activities: first, the riding (to ensure that the terms and conditions of the exception are being followed) and, second, the paperwork giving permission, release(s), etc. It can become a pain and I can understand the reluctance to take on the pain.
Sometimes you have to say “no.”
G.
I’d have a mild cranky about it, only because of the “the rule at this particular barn wasn’t ever made plain” part. Pretty much every barn has some weird rules, but as long as they’re up-front about stuff you can take it or leave it and it saves everybody some wasted time. (Same deal for boarders–if one has unusual care requirements, make it clear up front and see if the barn can work with you or not.)
As far as liability goes, I don’t think there’s any business involving horses that doesn’t have horrendous liability exposure if one thinks about it for too long. How long is too long, though? Arguably horses just aren’t in on the program about how modern American society expects that stuff will mostly happen in boring and predictable ways. I try to have enough insurance that both applies to my situation and has limits high enough that they’ll get me some decently sharp representation, but rather than eliminating all risk I do way better sleeping at night (being somewhat of a worrier) saying to myself “there is risk here, but it seems reasonably well-managed”. I still don’t want boarders, though, just because it’s a pain in the ass. (…which is another common reason for weird-looking barn rules, really, except I’ve got a lot more sympathy for it.)
Shakeytails, yes, it is a little sad how things have changed. I don’t personally see myself as an agent of that change, though. I think most BOs (including myself) are simply being practical and realistic about the landscape in which they run their business. Amb is right, it is possible to over think things, but OTOH there is a lot at stake for a BO who has a lot of money invested in a farm and business. And, because of the traditionally small financial returns from boarding, it simply is common sense to minimize risk and hassle wherever reasonably possible.
That landscape includes a culture where lawsuits are how people commonly handle accidents or disputes. That landscape also includes many equestrian clients who are not experienced enough horse people to where they can reliably see the red warning flags of an impending dangerous situation with an unfamiliar horse. Perhaps just as importantly, many lack the experience to anticipate possible unintended consequences/drama that can unfold out of something as simple as “riding someone else’s horse.” I think the modern BO has a lot more responsibility to intervene than the BOs of decades past.
I also want to add that some people on this thread seem to have a very relaxed attitude towards the loaning/borrowing of horses. As a BO, I have the advantage of an inside view. Some people are good enough riders but don’t bother to groom, warm up, or cool horses out properly. Some people have very careless horse handling skills. Some people are extremely careless with tack and equipment. Some people are good riders but lack judgement–for example the ability to identify that a horse is sore and that it shouldn’t be ridden, or that the horse is dripping with sweat on a hot day and it’s time to end the ride, etc. Some people (usually outside riders) simply are extremely inconsiderate and leave a mess behind in the aisle, in the arena, and in the wash stall. If the loaning rider isn’t present to deal with these issues, they become an uncomfortable situation for the BO.
Some of the issues go both ways. There’s also the really tough question of how things are going to be handled if something goes wrong. What if the borrowed horse gets loose and panics and is badly injured–who is going to be responsible for the vet bills? The owner of the horse might assume that the borrower would pay. What if the owner forgets to disclose that their otherwise quiet horse has some odd quirk (a mortal fear of cows, tendency to panic when tied a certain way) and the borrowing rider has a bad accident–is the borrower prepared for this type of risk and does the owner have adequate insurance to protect themselves?
Sorry to bump an old(ish) thread. I have two horses and my barn owners are aware that I have a friend that is welcome to come out and ride one when she wants, without my permission. She’s signed a waiver, she uses my tack and is aware of the rules. It’s basically a free lease situation.
That being said, there was a time when this friend brought a friend of hers along to ride my horse. She thought that, since she was allowed to ride, she could also bring her friends to ride. That’s a big no on all fronts. The barn owners said no, due to liability, and I said no because they’re my horses and I don’t know this other friend. I wasn’t there, I wasn’t asked if it was okay and I definitely wasn’t comfortable with it. So barn owner said the friend with permission could ride, but the friend she brought was not allowed to. My horse was put away and that was that. Does it seem excessive now? Sure, but those are my horses and I’m the one that has to deal with a vet bill if something happened. No one thought to ask my permission and they just assumed it was okay, and it wasn’t.
