Been There Done That Pony Lease Cost?

[Midge]

@TheDBYC

I have no issues acknowledging that Lillie is much better than I’ll ever be. She’s young. We all say stupid stuff. I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt – Lord knows I’m twice her age & still stick my foot in my mouth regularly. Hearing her state in an interview “I used [this horse] for the xyz class,” gave me the ick, though. No one else says “used”. Have some humility before the amazing animals who are kind enough to share their wings with you, please. She’s a pretty rider, to be sure. She’s one where I wonder what will happen if ish truly hits the fan, unlike a Cathleen Driscoll or Mimi Gochmann or JJ Torano, though.

Wait. You think Lillie Keenan has never ridden anything hard? Young? Temperamental? Barely broke?

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Serious riders, even very wealthy ones, who are in those top level programs DO progress to riding green, even quirky ponies and horses, once they’re ready for it, and if they want to go pro.

Learning is about positive reinforcement. A child must learn how to do something correctly on a horse that will offer the correct response. Then, when they’re on a difficult horse that doesn’t offer the correct response, they know something is wrong and can learn to course correct effectively versus ineffectively.

It’s not just dangerous ponies. Hasn’t anyone been at a crappy lesson barn where some kids are put on ponies that aren’t “sharpened up” (because no one bothers), and the kid never learns to properly ask for a canter or a trot other than kicking their brains out because the pony is so dead to the leg (and probably is in a bad saddle and sour and sore) that the pony might not himself remember what a proper upward transition signal is supposed to be? The pony might be “safe” shuffling around the arena for a half-hour, but to say that kid is learning more than a kid on a pony that will offer the correct response when signaled is silly.

[Kirikou]

Fascinating thread!
I want to gently push back though on this seemingly manichean idea that there are only two options for learning to ride: either a rank, dangerous pony that “teaches you to stick” or a 7-figure push-button packer. There’s a vast middle ground that seems to be getting overlooked here.

Plenty of good riding schools (and not just the big-name show barns) have safe, responsive ponies who aren’t dead to the leg or overmounted nightmares. It doesn’t have to be a pony worth more than my house to teach a kid to ride effectively. A balanced program with well-schooled lesson ponies that expect correct aids but still forgive honest mistakes is absolutely possible and exists in many places (though less and less in this country).

Yes, someone can learn on a string of expensive ponies if that’s what their lucky path allows, and sure, those experiences can build confidence to eventually take on greener rides. But not every kid comes from a trainer’s family or a trust fund. Historically, and still today in many other countries, kids come up the ranks on riding school ponies. As someone said (about something else entirely) on a show I was watching last night: we don’t all need to learn with a Mercedes-Benz. You can also learn and get the job done with a Kia.

That middle ground does exist, and it’s where many great jump riders (including some on foreign Olympic teams) got their start.

[Tha_Ridge]

@TheDBYC

She’s one where I wonder what will happen if ish truly hits the fan, unlike a Cathleen Driscoll or Mimi Gochmann or JJ Torano, though.

This is an absolutely bizarre statement to make. Why would you think that Lillie is somehow “less experienced” than Mimi, who is younger and has had all the same resources available to her? Lillie is actively developing a string of young horses for the top level of the sport and is building out a decent group of clients as well. (I’m very impressed with Lillian Soroken, both in attitude and riding, who Lillie’s brought from the 1.10 through the 1.30 in short time.) Do you think that’s all a walk in the park?

[findeight]

Nobody has said there is no middle ground. The OP and her DD were at Devon watching and specifically asked about Devon quality Division Ponies and the discussion drifted to the other extreme with a statement expressing the stereotype that rich kids never learn to ride using the example of a 6 year old on a 26 year old Pony that could not keep up with a group of trail riders too rude to slow for her and Pony too polite to gallop without being asked.

This discussion has focused on those extremes because that was the original question and the side road the discussion took.

[Christa_P]

I’m just guessing (I have zero experience at that level) that most of the kids showing the expensive ponies have a variety of ponies they ride at home, either their own or the trainers, and those ponies are not quite good enough to be the winners at the big shows for a variety of reasons.

I’m also guessing that, if you look at all the results, many of them will have ridden ponies in several divisions and placed lower or out of the ribbons because it was schooling ride or green pony.

Especially the older ones (12 or 13+) that have been riding for a trainer for few years are probably used to train the future $$$$$$ ponies.

[findeight]

They are called Pony Jocks, come with a stick in their back pocket and can be anywhere from 8 or 9 to 40+. Often considered an earned privilege to be asked to hop on a nasty brat Pony who reduced its rider to tears or tossed them. You cannot know what goes on at home to make those riders so polished at the show even on a less polished mount and/or a mediocre round from a mediocre at best Pony. Same with demoing sale Ponies, make em look nice and easy even when they are neither.

For all we know, when LK was younger, when some other kid got ditched or run off with, you might have heard “ Go get Lillie and tell her to bring her stick” and not “Blue is being bad, fix him”.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I don’t play in this sandbox (to put it mildly), but a family I knew when I rode at a hunter show barn briefly (who moved on to ride at Beacon Hill in NJ) first bought the kid a winning pony, then a well-bred, kind-minded green pony specifically to teach the kid how to “teach” a pony. And they weren’t LK-type wealth (on the level of riding in the Maclay, but not getting called back, if that makes any sense, once the kid outgrew ponies).

[junesj68]

This seems like the best way to do it if you have the funds. And then catch riding ponies and horses later on.

[fivestrideline]

Practice horses and practice ponies are SO common. After all, if you jump the pony’s legs off learning at home, you have nothing to show.

Trainer’s kids and the very gutsy get the benefit of riding everything at home too - and that includes the greenies and the recently broke.

[CBoylen]

@TheDBYC

Hearing her state in an interview “I used [this horse] for the xyz class,” gave me the ick, though. No one else says “used”

Sure they do, when it’s appropriate for the context. What a weird take. You take two horses to the WC: “I used XYZ for the speed since ABC isn’t as suited for that format”.
I personally used a number of horses for today’s lessons. It doesn’t mean I misused them.

[TheDBYC]

In the context of a lesson, no, it is not odd.

In the context of an interview, though? Yes, it does strike me as an odd choice of words to refer to the partner that you trust to your life to.

[Tha_Ridge]

She’s a professional. This is a career. How is “showed” or “rode” somehow most positive? What a weird hill to die on.

[TheDBYC]

Huh?

Eta: For f–k sake. Most interviews, the human says something like: "I rode Bill in the 1.30m speed stakes because [fill in the blank about Bill’s particular talent for the 1.30m]. Or “Bill is [fill in the blank], so we took on the 1.30m power & speed together.”

I warned everyone that my opinion would be unpopular & apt to ruffle feathers. I’m a big girl & don’t mind people disagree.

[rothmpp]

@TheDBYC

I have no issues acknowledging that Lillie is much better than I’ll ever be. She’s young. We all say stupid stuff. I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt – Lord knows I’m twice her age & still stick my foot in my mouth regularly. Hearing her state in an interview “I used [this horse] for the xyz class,” gave me the ick, though. No one else says “used”. Have some humility before the amazing animals who are kind enough to share their wings with you, please. She’s a pretty rider, to be sure. She’s one where I wonder what will happen if ish truly hits the fan, unlike a Cathleen Driscoll or Mimi Gochmann or JJ Torano, though.

I agree with everything other than this - she’s a very accomplished rider who has undoubtedly had many tough horses in her career. The “I used” doesn’t particularly bother me - these are pro trainers and riders, not PR specialists who understand the nuance of people dissecting every single word they use in answering questions. Frankly, I likely would not have even noticed the word usage had you not pointed it out. How long ago was that quote? Was she still relatively young and not yet educated on how critical the world can be about every single word you use?

[TheDBYC]

Hill to die on? It’s not that deep. I simply don’t align with the prevailing opinion. Chaconne a son Gout.

[dynamite0319]

Every horse I sat on until I was about 11 had one foot in the grave and they were PERFECT. Granted I was barrel racing, pole bending and goat tying rather than showing hunters, but I got the confidence I have now from being sat on amazing old farts from the time I was about 3 to 11. We learn confidence in the saddle from the been-there-done-that steeds. Green on green makes black and blue.

[clanter]

we “built” our own been there done that pony for kids, bought a young Morgan mare as a long yearling then left her in Kentucky to be developed into our kids horse. Spent two years there being shown on the Kentucky county fair circuit. We spent about $50,000 doing this but we got want we wanted. (in 1993 we turned down a low six figure offer for her, a rich grandfather wanted to buy her for his grandkid, I handed his check back saying this horse is not mine but my kids and they do not want to sell, a side note we really did not loose that money as the land we bought to be the pasture for the kids horses turned out to have natural gas and oil under the pasture)

14.1h

[c0608524]

@clanter, I love hearing your stories about your horses and how your kids grew up. It’s so heartwarming

[lintesia]

@TheDBYC

Chaconne a son Gout.

Um… A chaconne is a dance in 3/4 time, simiiar to a passacaille. Maybe you meant “chacun”?