Ben, Jan and Amy Ebeling Named in Sexual Assault Civil Suit

[skrosenthal]

You’re missing a “yet” here — we have no idea if the safesport investigation or the criminal investigation have concluded; these things often take a long time. The only thing we know is the confirmation that both investigations began (since the Ebelings have stated that Ben cooperated with both the Ventura sheriff’s department and with safesport), but we don’t know that there was a disposition in either situation. Without confirmation from either USCSS or the Sheriff, we don’t know that the investigations concluded without further action.

[happilyretired]

we don’t know anything other than that accusations have been made and denied — and investigations are taking place … we don’t know what happened so best to reserve judgement re all involved

[skydy]

I think it is an inappropriate post to be written on this thread. I hope that you will move it to Off Topic if you really want to explore that subject.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@skrosenthal

You’re missing a “yet” here — we have no idea if the safesport investigation or the criminal investigation have concluded; these things often take a long time. The only thing we know is the confirmation that both investigations began (since the Ebelings have stated that Ben cooperated with both the Ventura sheriff’s department and with safesport), but we don’t know that there was a disposition in either situation. Without confirmation from either USCSS or the Sheriff, we don’t know that the investigations concluded without further action.

According to the suit, SS was not contacted until fall of 2020, 3.5 years after the alleged assault. By then the statute of limitations on statutory rape would have run out.

If the police were going to investigate it as forcible rape (incapacitation), they would have no evidence of any drugs at this point. Clothing would have been washed or discarded by this point. Even if they had DNA on clothing that was saved, that just proves sex, not forcible rape.

I don’t think SS generally starts their investigation until the the criminal justice system has investigated and made their determination.

So, you’re right, it’s not entirely clear whether any criminal investigation is completed, but I’m thinking more likely than not, the case has been closed by the police. It appears there was a SS investigation, and it’s unclear whether that’s completed or not.

If the criminal justice system is not going to produce a charge, I think SS will act based on its own investigation. I don’t think SS will issue a suspension or ban based on the civil suit.

[eggbutt]

@skydy

I think it is an inappropriate post to be written on this thread. I hope that you will move it to Off Topic if you really want to explore that subject.

Okay. *I don’t want to explore the subject. I think it’s a personal question that can only be answered for ourself when judging others.

But, I will remove my post.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@eggbutt

@skydy

I think it is an inappropriate post to be written on this thread. I hope that you will move it to Off Topic if you really want to explore that subject.

Okay. *I don’t want to explore the subject. I think it’s a personal question that can only be answered for ourself when judging others.

But, I will remove my post.

I understood your point, Eggbutt.

[skydy]

Thanks @eggbutt.

[erinmeri]

@Knights_Mom

In some jurisdictions an 18 year old with a 14 year old is statutory rape. But if it’s a 17 year old and a 14 year old it isn’t.

This doesn’t sound like statutory rape. It sounds like forcible rape.

[erinmeri]

@hut-ho78

California has age of consent of 18 and allows for a 10 year age difference.

SafeSport is geared towards minor abuse by adults and also uses age 18. I can’t remember if an age difference has a limit but if it does, 3 years may be ok.

There are no forensics by now.

So it is a he said/she said of an alleged non-criminal act that appears to not violate SafeSport.

Am I missing something? I’m struggling to understand what the lawsuit stands to gain.

Yes, you are missing something. A lot of things. How on EARTH do you think this doesn’t violate SafeSport? How do you (I am surmising here) think this isn’t obviously rape?

He gave her booze and/or drugs and she could not move or remain conscious. She could not consent. Even if he hadn’t given it/them to her and she consumed on her own, it would still be rape. She could not consent. I believe victims, and if what happened happened as described… it is rape. Period. No matter their ages.

Also, just because something is “he said/she said”, or doesn’t have forensics, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen or isn’t prosecutable.

Attitudes like this are why victims don’t come forward.

[erinmeri]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Something that bothers me about this set of allegations is that one the one hand, the plaintiff is alleging actual rape (incapacitation to the point of unconsciousness with “drugs”), in which she would not have been able to give consent even if she had been over 18. On the other hand, they talk about grooming over the course of several years, and a power imbalance. Why does the grooming and power imbalance matter if it was forcible rape through incapacitation? Which is it, forcible rape or manipulation of a minor? It looks like the forcible rape claim did not fly with the police, so that they hedged their bets by adding grooming and power imbalance.

It can be both. They are not mutually exclusive.

@CurrentlyHorseless

It looks like the plaintiff filed a police complaint, and he was not criminally charged. There’s nothing wrong with filing a criminal complaint years after the incident, but the important forensic data would be gone. Is the “drugging” something beyond giving her wine?

Does it matter what the substance was? Sounds like whatever was given - booze or booze + drugs rendered her incapacitated and unable to consent.

@CurrentlyHorseless

I think the parents were added to the suit just because they have the assets.

Perhaps. Or perhaps they have an obligation as not just parents, but professionals, to ensure the safety of clients they are engaged in business with.

@CurrentlyHorseless

It does seem nasty to dump the civil suit into the public sphere on the eve of his competing at Aachen, when this has probably been going on for at least a year, 5 years after whatever happened, happened.

Maybe. But it sure seems nastier to sexually assault someone.

[Mersidoats]

@erinmeri

Perhaps. Or perhaps they have an obligation as not just parents, but professionals, to ensure the safety of clients they are engaged in business with.

Did the victim live on the property? That could also be another reason they are named in the suit. The Acres is a high performance facility, any minors who are riding there are probably pursuing NAYC or high level competitions, and may be living on property as they pursue their goals.

[erinmeri]

@hut-ho78

When asked, most victims think they were going to be murdered at the end, furthering their trauma which can be emotional and physical, they may appear unharmed or be beaten or tortured and they are forever changed.

What??? Do you have a source to back up this claim? Most rapes are not by strangers, they are by people known to the victim. Murder, beatings and torture don’t feature in many, many rapes. Coercion? Yes. A lack of consent? Yes. Rape need not be violent to be rape. This is 2022. Not the dark ages.

Edited: need NOT, not “need more”. Siri!

[erinmeri]

@Mersidoats

Did the victim live on the property? That could also be another reason they are named in the suit. The Acres is a high performance facility, any minors who are riding there are probably pursuing NAYC or high level competitions, and may be living on property as they pursue their goals.

Good question! No idea - I left CA in 2002 and never rode dressage. I am not familiar with the parties involved.

[skydy]

There is a link to the complaint up thread. Reading it will answer many questions Jane Doe did not live on the property. Here is the link again. https://forum.chronofhorse.com/uploads/short-url/sQa82jTR7JUvgiwnV02SVKpJnn1.pdf

[Knights_Mom]

There are a bunch of rape like charges that can be filed. I imagine they differ by jurisdiction but here are a few and most of these have degree of crime.

Rape
Forcible Compulsion/Acts
Sexual Assault
Sodomy
Forcible Assault
Sexual Battery
Sexual Abuse
Abusive Sexual Contact
Lewd Conduct

[erinmeri]

@CurrentlyHorseless

But the police would only take action if it was forcible rape or statutory rape, and they declined to charge him.

This is not true.

Edited to add: first clause is not true. Second clause is, so far.

[Mersidoats]

Wow. The parents of the Defendent came to pick her up and the Ebeling’s response was “Kids will be kids”? I found my brother drunk off his a** in the bathtub at 14 - he and his friends decided to drink vodka and root beer. I told my parents, they found him, and he got the grounding of his life. There was no “kids will be kids”. There were serious consequences.

The other allegations make young Ben sound like a peach.

Edit for spelling

[SBrentnall]

No, the parents were named in the suit because they run the business and the father was the girl’s trainer.

The parents are the reason the girl was there in the first place.

[Knights_Mom]

@SBrentnall

No, the parents were named in the suit because they run the business and the father was the girl’s trainer.

The parents are the reason the girl was there in the first place.

Plus they had the responsibility as de facto caretakers of children to insure safety.

[erinmeri]

I am trying to take deep breaths. There are a lot of astonishing things people are willing to say on a public forum about a rape accusation.

I think a lot of posters here need to strongly consider consent.

I think a lot of posters here need to strongly rethink their bias.

The fact that people immediately jump to questioning the timing of the civil suit, or to the “financial motives” thereof, or to immediately discussing statutory rape when this is clearly not that, or to other victim-diminishing lines of thought is disturbing.

I am guessing (and some guesses have been confirmed based on above posts) that you are viewing this from a lens that is outdated. The framework for discussing and prosecuting rape has changed. Please get with the era.

A lot of the posts here, even well-meaning ones, confirm why people don’t come forward. And why, even when they do, it is traumatic and fraught. Wow. Just wow.