IF it’s true (and disappointing if so) hopefully it will have more effect on his career than the suits against Andreas Helgstrand and Sjef have in dressage land.
[QUOTE=Xctrygirl;7293687]
Funny I see no results for Tackeray since August of this year. Wonder if he’s laid up.
Or is Lauren competing in Europe right now?? Anyone know?
Also my questions is was the rider from January/WEF Eirin Bruheim someone from Ben’s camp or was the the purchaser in question??
Although maybe he’s not laid up, maybe he switched to the first year greens, with a new name.
(That’s a joke)
Emily[/QUOTE]
Bruheim is the purchaser in question. I believe Tackeray had some time off to be gelded, He is in Wellington now minus a few parts.
Ok I am gonna sound a bit shocked here and I probably shouldn’t be but bear with me.
NORDIC LIGHTS FARM, LLC, own the horse. Paid $850k. The rider, according to their website, is their 20 year old daughter.
Pause
Can we get these people to please call my dad and explain that my $16k horse in 1994 wasn’t expensive.
Wow. Just…wow. And it’s gelded now so only has the one career path of being a riding horse. Geez.
Emily
Yeesh, $16k is an expensive horse to most people, even 20 years later. Assuming your dad bought you your horse, I’ll call him and explain that he can adopt me :winkgrin:
The six figure horse folks play in a different sandbox than the rest of us.
Yeah, a $16K horse in 1994 was pretty pricey for us “regular” folks.
to me, a $16K today… is expensive! I don’t play in your sandbox either.
Yea from 1997 on I have bought my own horses. Only 1 above 4k. The rest have been sub $1k.
Nicer horses too.
Emily
This sort of cheat happens in our industry at all levels. And people wonder why the rest of the US population doesn’t take our “sport” seriously or why we can no longer find “good” owners or sponsors?
Umm, maybe because they got tired of being screwed every time they walked into the barn by these greedy, lying, con artist that are so prevalent in our industry.
The bottom line is never, never trust any trainer, dealer, seller, etc with your money regardless of how long you have know them or how long they have worked for you or you have done business with them, consider them a friend, etc. Insist on full disclosure documents and on meeting the buyer/seller so you have the option to ask questions and discover details.
[QUOTE=kenyarider;7293250]
If it is true and I hope it is not, this kind of practice coupled with the drug use, are two reasons why some governmental agency is going to come in and start regulating the horse industry. We need to have a code of conduct that is enforceable to avoid that. USEF does what it can about the drug use but once it is seen as ineffective, the government will respond to citizens cries for regulation.[/QUOTE]
There are laws in Ky and California which specifically prohibit non disclosure of all funds spent and received during sales of horses. These laws werre initiated and sponosred by the racing industry, but they also apply to the sport horse world.
Sadly such laws have only been enacted in very few states; so sleezy horse dealers do business elsewhere.
I have noticed everyone saying “IF it is true”. Show of hands of people who have no doubt that the allegations are true?
Then there is the collateral damage is to the sport itself. It has lost benefactors who loved show jumping and were willing to buy top level horses and pay for their upkeep. I feel so bad for them… They had the best of intentions and only now have they discovered that they had been getting screwed all along.
I wonder if there is a rule in the FEI charter which can ban anyone found guilty of a felony which involves the sport of Show Jumping?
it seems weird that the discrepancy is what the exchange rate (GBP to USD) is or close too; that’s one ballsy move to give yourself (as agent) nearly equal to the sale price in commission, and certainly a lawyer(s) would’ve figured that out.
I’m not sure why some owners - either on this scale or on a smaller scale allow trainers/agents to leave them out of the sales/purchase process - in the majority of other sales/purchase transactions do we allow a 3rd party to receive/distribute funds. When you purchase a home the realtor isn’t given the funds to disperse payments… when you buy a car it’s the same thing so why have so many allowed it to happen in the horse industry. When I’ve bought a horse it’s MY money I’m spending, therefore I’m going to be the one who is involved in the conversations about purchase price. If a trainer/agent told me I had to be left out of the conversation I would nix the deal.
The guy’s whole life reads like a TV reality show. He is the son of a wealthy property developer, who is on his second (blonde trophy type) wife. Daddy lives in a home on 160 acres that he bulldozed and rebuilt which sells for many millions with 10 acres, because Ben boy has the rest for his stud operation. Ben boy dates his groom. Ben boy then meets glamorous, blonde, bimbo model. Ben boy and bimbo get married. Ben boy moves blondie in to his 3 bedroom cottage. Ex groom girlfriend accuses them of assault in the local pub. Bimbo meets rich scrap yard proprietor, owner of Big Star (Skelton’s horse). Bimbo legs it after the money and marries the totter.
Is it any real surprise ??
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;7294150]
There are laws in Ky and California which specifically prohibit non disclosure of all funds spent and received during sales of horses. These laws werre initiated and sponosred by the racing industry, but they also apply to the sport horse world.
Sadly such laws have only been enacted in very few states; so sleezy horse dealers do business elsewhere.
I have noticed everyone saying “IF it is true”. Show of hands of people who have no doubt that the allegations are true?
Then there is the collateral damage is to the sport itself. It has lost benefactors who loved show jumping and were willing to buy top level horses and pay for their upkeep. I feel so bad for them… They had the best of intentions and only now have they discovered that they had been getting screwed all along.
I wonder if there is a rule in the FEI charter which can ban anyone found guilty of a felony which involves the sport of Show Jumping?[/QUOTE]
Exactly. I believe there is a future where more transparency is required for horse sales. That being a legitimate standardized sales contract similar to those currently used for real estate. Several sale barns now have online copies of their terms of service and prices charged. These include boarding and management costs as well as outside services of advertising. The commission being paid to the broker is also in black and white.
It frankly doesn’t matter if Dobbin is for sale at a price of $5000 to a child riding over cross rails or an international horse. Cheating large and small scale will be eliminated by allowing all parties to have access to the financial transactions brokered by a third party.
I have never quite understood how this type of practice is allowed to happen.
Are there not contracts involved, that are read and signed by both buyer and seller? It sounds like there must not be for so many scams of this nature to happen.
No one (well anyone in their right mind) would buy real estate for the same prices without a contract, and escrow, etc. Sales commissions are disclosed as well.
I have had a contract, signed by legal OWNER and buyer on every horse I have ever purchased or sold. If I was buying a six figure horse - I think I would want the sale, and funds handled through an escrow.
So those with knowledge of high end horse sales that involve Agents - enlighten me, HOW does this happen?
I hate a liar or a thief. Who needs a relationship of someone not trustworthy. I understand the Phillips thought he was, but now he has thoroughly tarnished his reputation and it will stick like poop the rest of his career. No one forgets the bad stuff. That’s why it’s so important in this industry to do everything you can to protect and preserve a good reputation. Greed is not a good trait! NOr is screwing your benefactor.
PennyG
I appreciate the fact that most of the posters are giving Ben the benefit of the doubt here by prefacing their remarks with “If”. At this point we don’t have enough information other than a lawsuit has been filed with various allegations. Thank you to all of you who are willing to see the evidence before making a decision about Ben’s culpability.
Not letting Ben off the hook at all, and if this is true, he deserves all the bad things coming to him. But it always amazes me how wealthy, successful people, who have presumably managed their money well to accumulate such wealth, turn stupid when it comes to horse dealings. When you’re dealing with such large sums, how can you not insist on wiring the money directly to the horse’s owner when purchasing a horse, getting a bill of sale signed by both parties, and having a document showing exactly who is getting paid a commission and in what amount? And if you’re the horse seller, insisting that the money is wired to you from the horse purchaser?
If this is true… talk about biting the hand that feeds you!
I think this happens mostly when people trust their trainer to buy the horses sight unseen from a foreign country. Sellers or their agents will gain favour/increased sales by being willing to offer a fake paper trail or kick back to the buying agent. I have seen in done enough to otherwise very intelligent people to know that it isn’t anything do to with them not doing their due diligence.
I seem to recall that it was a lot easier to buy from Europe if you had a bank account there…this made it easier to convince buyers to give the money to the trainer who had a European account set up to make the purchase…so the money went through the trainer for a legitimate reason. Not sure if that is still the case though: my knowledge is from many years ago!
[QUOTE=Jumper221;7294379]
Not letting Ben off the hook at all, and if this is true, he deserves all the bad things coming to him. But it always amazes me how wealthy, successful people, who have presumably managed their money well to accumulate such wealth, turn stupid when it comes to horse dealings. When you’re dealing with such large sums, how can you not insist on wiring the money directly to the horse’s owner when purchasing a horse, getting a bill of sale signed by both parties, and having a document showing exactly who is getting paid a commission and in what amount? And if you’re the horse seller, insisting that the money is wired to you from the horse purchaser?[/QUOTE]
I totally get what you are saying, but this kind of reminds me of those who ask how a woman can complain about being raped when she was wearing a miniskirt and eyeliner and hanging out where she shouldn’t have been.
Just because you trust that others will do the right thing doesn’t mean you deserve to get f@#ked when you don’t want to.
Just because you have money doesn’t automatically mean you know with whom you can trust to spend it. And just because you have a ton of money and choose to spend it in horses doesn’t mean you know everything about how disgusting the horse industry can be. Don’t blame the victim here, because if they become the ones to blame, the small pool of wealthy owners that are available today will quickly run dry and then where will our sport be?
