Best oral joint supplements for dogs...

[SquishTheBunny]

Can you add Gabapentin?

What about a narcotic, for the days that he is really bad?

Def. add fish oil.

Traumeel works great in people…maybe worth a try.

Topical rubs, such as Surpass?

However, if the OA is really that bad I would consider a tapering dose of steroid instead of an NSAID. Its a little easier on the liver as you can get longer results with pulsing it, but at the same time balancing quality of life. Knowing that to keep him comfortable, the liver is likely to suffer.

Have you had a liver ultrasound or biopsy done to see why the values are high? Sometimes hepatomas and benign liver issues such as vacular hepatopathy can show increased values that don’t change significantly with NSAIDs.

[CrowneDragon]

[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;7163978]
Can you add Gabapentin?

What about a narcotic, for the days that he is really bad?

Def. add fish oil.

Traumeel works great in people…maybe worth a try.

Topical rubs, such as Surpass?

However, if the OA is really that bad I would consider a tapering dose of steroid instead of an NSAID. Its a little easier on the liver as you can get longer results with pulsing it, but at the same time balancing quality of life. Knowing that to keep him comfortable, the liver is likely to suffer.

Have you had a liver ultrasound or biopsy done to see why the values are high? Sometimes hepatomas and benign liver issues such as vacular hepatopathy can show increased values that don’t change significantly with NSAIDs.[/QUOTE]
He is not that bad. Sometimes he limps from the elbow, but not when he’s on glucosamine. His hips are sore, but he still runs and can get on the couch and bed, just with difficulty. The biggest tell is that he won’t sit. Too painful. He’ll try to crouch if you ask him to sit. He just lays down everywhere. His gaits are stilted and irregular.
He has end-stage cirrhosis and very little functional liver (very little liver, period. 90 lb dog and even an U/S specialist at a university hospital has to search for it), so NSAIDs are completely out of the question.

Thanks for all of the suggestions, everyone. Lots to look into.

[Beckham03]

I forgot to say I use fish oil too. Both our rehab department and neurology department have been prescribing a lot of Traumeel. I take it for headaches and pains too and it does help.

[LSM1212]

This is what I give my almost 11 year old Border Collie. I’ve given it to my other older Border Collies that have come and gone. It was recommended by my Vet. It is a human product but works well for my guy. I give him one capsule a day (in the morning). And it’s reasonably priced. Lasts 3 months.

http://www.nutramaxlabs.com/your-health-home/joint-health/cosamin-asu

[wendy]

have you tried cetyl-M? some dogs respond very well to it, others not. You’ll know after a week on it.
I’ve always used Hylasport, and fish oil- note you need a very high dose of fish oil to see a clinical response, 300 mg per pound of dog per day.
The biggest response I’ve seen is to weekly pentosan injections. Like a brand-new dog.
However, once the arthritis advances to a certain stage, none of these things will help. Then you need surgery if the dog is a surgical candidate.

traumeel, like all homeopathic medicines, is nothing but water. No point in taking it. Homeopathic medicines contain no ingredients by definition. Might as well save your money.

[CrowneDragon]

Cetyl-M is another I haven’t tried. Honestly, one of the things I was hoping to glean from this thread is if any supplements stood-out amongst the rest, but it looks like we have one vote for each :lol:. I am still weighing pros and cons for trying pentosan.
Surgery would not be a good idea for a dog his age, with so many affected joints. We just keep trying different things and hope to improve upon what we have now

[SquishTheBunny]

[QUOTE=wendy;7167030]

traumeel, like all homeopathic medicines, is nothing but water. No point in taking it. Homeopathic medicines contain no ingredients by definition. Might as well save your money.[/QUOTE]

Now I would normally agree that medical ingredients come before homeopathic, but so many of our current medications came from homeopathic routes.

Ask cancer survivors if vincristine is water.
And for those with end stage liver, if milk thistle is also water.

I think at this point since your dog is end stage liver and painful from arthritis, any trials that aren’t harmful to the liver will be worth a shot.

[CrowneDragon]

[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;7167571]
Now I would normally agree that medical ingredients come before homeopathic, but so many of our current medications came from homeopathic routes.

Ask cancer survivors if vincristine is water.
And for those with end stage liver, if milk thistle is also water.

I think at this point since your dog is end stage liver and painful from arthritis, any trials that aren’t harmful to the liver will be worth a shot.[/QUOTE]
Those medications came from herbal medicine, not homeopathy

Yup, we’re pretty game to dry anything that looks safe. I’m giving everything 30-45 days and if I don’t see any improvement, we move along. I’ll report back if we come across something that works

[FalseImpression]

This is strange. I just add a conversation with a friend who has a 14 yo female lab. This is what she told me :“We have been taking her to a naturopathic sp? vet and it has done wonders for her. We initially took her to a regular vet but they said all they could do was scrap the calcium from her ostearthritis in her back knee joints and would have to do it again. We heard about this vet and seriously she has made her quality of life much better and without surgery. I will definitely look at a naturopathic doctor along with a medical doctor if it is every needed. I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t seen the results. We were supposed to feed her raw food and we did at first but it is difficult to do when you go away often and someone else is taking care of her, so we now purchase non-rendered meat dog food. Expensive but the better alternative to what we can’t do.”
It does not sound like she is on any medication or supplement. I will ask her next time I talk to her.

[wendy]

you could try acupuncture, too. Back on track wraps.

I find with these chronic conditions it’s trial and error- every dog is different. One supplement that is a miracle cure for one dog doesn’t work at all on another dog.

Homeopathy and herbals are very different. Homeopathy is all about no ingredients; herbs are just natural drugs created by plants. Homeopathy is the biggest scam ever invented. Seriously, look it up- homeopathic remedies contain NO ingredients by definition. They’ve been repeatedly shown to not work, and to not pass the “laugh test”. If arnica is good for pain, how is the absence of arnica good for pain? that’s what traumeel is- the absence of arnica.

[SquishTheBunny]

Sorry I misread, I thought you were indicating herbal treatments.

Accupuncture can help in many cases. If not for the actual joint, the supporting muscles.

We have a client swear by Lakota, its a human supplement but she feels it works wonders on her dog.

Switch up the neutraceuticals, if you cant do NSAIDs or narcotics, and don’t feel IA injections or surgery is in the best interest for your dog then load them up and try different ones. Its rare to get any overdose reaction from most neutraceuticals. I would also second switching from adequan to polyglycan or pentosan.

[catzndogz22]

[QUOTE=catzndogz22;7162478]
Glyco-Flex III has been a huge help for my nearly 10 year old lab mix. He’s almost good as new! The vet recommended Dasuquin. It didn’t help him at all.[/QUOTE]

He also had 6 cold laser treatments for his gimpy shoulder. I saw no change whatsoever after the first two treatments. There was a slight improvement after the 3rd treatment. He seemed slightly worse after the 4th treatment when they increased the time. After the 5th treatment he seemed good as new. I left town for a week and he was slightly ouchy again when I got home. We did the 6th treatment in mid-July and he’s been perfect ever since. He’s still on the Glyco-Flex III and also gets 2 fish oil capsules per day.

[SquishTheBunny]

Thought of you today when we treated a dog with hip and elbow dysplasia.

IA injections of polyglycan to start (in elbow and pelvis) under sedation, not GA. THen, followed up by 3 IM injections of polyglycan over the next few weeks.

Might be worth investigating this for your dog. Minimally invasive, and the results especially after the IA injetions have been incredible.

[cowboymom]

Homeopathy has the smallest amount of ingredient that can cause a healing reaction in the body. It doesn’t have NO ingredient, that’s stupid.

There is actually some evidence that it IS indeed effective, even if you ask webmd. http://www.webmd.com/balance/guide/homeopathy-topic-overview and http://www.webmd.com/balance/tc/homeopathy-references#tx3879

I’m not saying it’s the cure all but some people don’t know as much as they think they do. And I’m not talking about Squish.

[CrowneDragon]

[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;7170258]
Thought of you today when we treated a dog with hip and elbow dysplasia.

IA injections of polyglycan to start (in elbow and pelvis) under sedation, not GA. THen, followed up by 3 IM injections of polyglycan over the next few weeks.

Might be worth investigating this for your dog. Minimally invasive, and the results especially after the IA injetions have been incredible.[/QUOTE]
I’m going to bring it up to his vet. I tried to get time to talk to him a couple of weeks ago when the dog was going under for a mass removal (seemed like a good time to do some extra poking), but we couldn’t coordinate.
In the mean time I have ordered some Duralactin and we’ll start there

[KnKShowmom]

Pure MSM?

I have two labs who are now 10 and I see my female slowing down a bit - male is still as bouncy as ever! I would like to put them both on something to help with overall stiffness but have two problems.

First they are each over 100 lbs - not fat just super big. When I look at the supplements at Smartpak and Petsmart, I would have to give each of them about 6 tablets a day, which will get a bit pricey over the long term.

The bigger problem is that all of the supplements I looked at had flavoring - a huge no-no for my girl. She is allergic to chicken, beef and grains so is on a single protein/salmon food.

Has anyone tried pure MSM as a starting point for a supplement? I know at some point I will probably need something more powerful, but they really have no health problems to speak of and I have seen good things with my horses on MSM, plus I figure any added benefit of relief of her allergies would be a good thing.