[QUOTE=rcloisonne;4207881]
I believe the study used Dormosedan.[/QUOTE]
Actually there are a few studies involving Ace that have shown that horses can learn…I dont see the harm in giving a little to take the edge off a nervous young horse.
I don’t
some I know do
some have recommended I should.
this worked for me
ride the day before
no grain the morning of
bit up [in the first year or two]
purchased in 95 by 97 it was tack n go
for a peak of 41 hunts 1999/2000
photo in my profile
retired 06
actually
some all purpose brown in a flask works the best for making your ride a quiet one. Your horse will thank you. Your fellow riders will thank you.
If you want to see what it’s like to hunt a medicated horse, take yourself a couple of “relaxing” drinks, then get on your kids bicycle and ride through some fields and creeks you’ve never seen before.
Seriously, you wouldn’t want to drive impaired, why would you want the being in charge of keeping your butt safe to not be quite sure where his feet are?? If your horse won’t stay calm enough for you to hunt, get someone good enough to ride him for you for a bit, until he settles and you improve or get another horse.
Dawglover, that was almost my exact experience. The frantic backing was especially dangerous - yes, almost off a bank.
I can see what folks are saying about trailering, and if it is so little as to have worn off, but is one really at one’s best after coming down off a drug? I usually feel groggy or burnt out. TMI.
To those of you that are proponants of the use of ace,how did you learn about this and how do you know how much to give.Do you know how long it lasts and are you giving it to first flight horses?What if they take off jumping right from the meet?How do you give it to the horse?IV or IM or in the mouth?Do you ever give them anything else?Do you jump medicated (sedated horses)?
Do you recommend it for people and horses with confidence and or control issues?
Thankyou for all your insight.
I don’t think anyone has written anything of the sort.
If a person has confidence or control issues I usually recommend lessons and to not go hunting until they know how to ride.
[QUOTE=jellybeans;4208555]
To those of you that are proponants of the use of ace,how did you learn about this and how do you know how much to give.Do you know how long it lasts and are you giving it to first flight horses?What if they take off jumping right from the meet?How do you give it to the horse?IV or IM or in the mouth?Do you ever give them anything else?Do you jump medicated (sedated horses)?
Do you recommend it for people and horses with confidence and or control issues?
Thankyou for all your insight.[/QUOTE]
Per your questions:
- My vet recommended it and suggested the dosage for my use (trailering, getting my horse to overcome separation anxiety). I would not arbitrarily give my horse anything that I hadn’t discussed with my vet.
- How long does it last? I would say that after an hour it’s pretty much worn off but I think it depends on how much you give them, the size/weight of the horse, etc.
- I give it IM. you can certainly give it orally but it doesn’t take effect very quickly so you would need to plan when you dose the horse.
Honestly, this is something that people should discuss with their vets, not on a bulletin board. Ace affects different horses in different ways. The difference between a dose that “takes the edge off” and a dose that makes a horse look like it’s in a stupor is a fine line. Also, ace doesn’t always work. In some cases a horse that’s been dosed acts worse. It is not something that people should read about on line and try on their own.
Given the litigious nature of our society,I wouldn’t touch the issue of hunting a tranquilized horse with a client for all the tea in China.
I like having a roof over my head.
It’s not something I would do. Makes me uncomfortable just thinking about it.
I have hunted several tense, green horses on anywhere from 1/2 cc to 1 1/2 cc’s of Ace IM and never had any problem with tripping or a lack of coordination.
I felt totally comfortable doing it and would do it again if I worried that a horse was too tense or reactive to safely hunt.
My experience is that the horses learn just fine on Ace. They have a positive association with hunting istead of a negative one after the rodeo.
I hunted a greeny on 3/4cc of ace under the tonge, about 1/2 hour prior to moving off. He was great! Now in hind sight, I think he would have been great without it, he is just that type of horse, but I would do it again if I wasn’t sure. We hilltopped.
I have a friend who swears by a touch of ace under the tonge before the horses get off the trailer at the hunts. I have a herbal product that I use instead for anyone who is a bit silly. I found it for a horse who is prone to ulcers, he found hunting stressful and by the evening after the hunt, he was off his feed, often shaking and twitching while hunting because he was stressed, yet he genuinly seemed to enjoy it. Sure enough, treated the ulcer (which the barn manager before me hadn’t treated correctly) and now give a touch of this herbal stuff to reduce his anxiety prior to hunting. It is perfect. No dulling of the senses, does not trip, drool, etc etc completely safe to jump yet it seems to be just enough to calm his deamons and make him a happy hunting horse. He is a joy to hunt, he never misbehaved before, just overly stressed. On this stuff, the ulcer has never flared up again, and the homeopathist that gave it to me explained that it does have a positive learning experience from using it - the horse has a good experience and becomes less stressed out each time, therefore requiring less each time. Sure enough she is right, I can use less and he is a peach to go anywhere and do anything. Within a year she thinks I can stop using it entirely, and I think she is right. Works on most horses, though not all, and I use it on the greenys and other hunt horses if I expect problems for any reason. Non habit forming, and over time you use less, not more, with no ill effects that I have ever seen. And it kicks in within 15min, given orally.
Its all well and good to tell someone to stop hunting a horse who is not perfect, but some of us cannot afford to buy a made horse, and get to attached to those that are not perfect right away to sell them. So if a touch of ace or a herbal calmer makes your horse a joy to hunt, than I say do what works for you. Don’t rely on it to make a dangerous horse safe, that would be too much IMHO, but do what works for you and is the safest option when all options are considered. Not to mention, you may get rid of a horse that was just a bit hard to hunt and end up replacing it with one that is down right dangerous without knowing! I’d rather work with the deamons I know, than those that I have yet to meet thank you very much!
ok with me…
I had a horse that I’d gotten “too fit” one season and vet rec’d 1/2 cc IM immediately before mounting. She said it’d be worn off after 1/2 hr so that’s why it needed to be given before move off. We only hilltopped and I wanted the extra calmness for the first run, the move off, or until he burned off some energy. Worked great, calmed me down so I didn’t have to clutch or be scared. I only had to do it for about 5 saturdays cubbing then he settled down for the season. I don’t have a problem with it. I’ve used it on a problem loader too.
I have thought a lot about chemical assistance especially having gone through my first hunt season where I hunted three tb’s all new to hunting. I did chose not to use anything because I knew my horses and figured if they were absolutely silly I could head in and take a different approach next time whether it be more training or just a tiny bit of chemical assistance. Give them a chance the first few times before making any other decisions. I was really nervous my first few times just because I didn’t know anything about hunting but my horses were way more relaxed than I was.
That being said I did give one horse 1/2cc of ace a few minutes before we struck off because he was being ridden by a junior rider very late into hunting season when he was exceptionally fit. He would get just a bit anxious the first 15 min and I wanted him to relax so she could relax. Not enough to inhibit his performance and we were not jumping. Did he need it? I am sure he didn’t but it made me feel better knowing he would be okay for her. A member saw me head into the trailer and gave me an evil eye but I felt qualified to make that decision on what was best for my horse.
I know many horses hunt on quite a bit of ace some 2-3 cc worth which I find a bit silly. If it takes that much every ride then you really don’t have a hunt horse. Take the horse off the ACE and what do you have?
Thought I’d put in my two cents.
I’m new to Hunting, but by no means new to riding. Thirty years in the tack, and I’ve done a bit of everything - sans Hunting and Western Pleasure. I’ve owned over a dozen really GOOD horses, yet the opportunity to join a Hunt never really presented itself - I’ve always been interested - just haven’t gone after it.
So here I am, three years after selling a fabulous Hunt horse that I imported from Ireland, (which I purchased for Eventing and miss terribly) working with my amazing dressage horse (who supposedly Hunted enthusiastically one season in VA hunt country years ago)…
In 30 years of riding - I’ve never felt the need to give a horse ace - for anything. I’ve worked through every problem with care, caution & common sense. I’ve never had a horrible accident, or any other reason to doubt I’m not more than capable of taking a horse out Hunting… As my responsibilities have increased (kids, running a farm), I’ve been more cautious in my equine endeavors…
As I begin my foray into Hunting I thought it prudent to give my mare a small amount of ace for our first introduction to the hounds. I discussed it at length with my vet prior, who knows us both well and made recommendations on what she thought would assist us best. It was a very small amount, and for the Hunt clinic and first time out roading it took the edge off ever so SLIGHTLY. The two times I’ve used it, I’ve decreased the amount by half each time. I won’t jump with it, but may use it for the first time cubbing with the second flight. She’s a wonderful mare, and it gives ME just enough confidence to tackle something that I’ve wanted to do for many years, with a horse I know I SHOULD trust. Once I have faith in her, she’d jump over the moon for me if I asked. This I know.
Sorry for the long drawn out story - but for someone new to the sport I wanted to voice my opinion.
I think it’s worth discussing with your vet if both you and your horse have the tools necessary, a solid foundation and just want to take the edge off before venturing off into unknown territory on a hot but willing horse.
Even with a small amount - when the 12 pair of hounds hopped off the trailer and came running towards us I thought she was going to have a coronary… we both breathed through it and had a wonderful afternoon!
I can’t wait for to get out there cubbing and see if we really have what it takes. Until then, I’m greatful for the opportunity to road with the hounds. It’s a life long dream come true for me!
Fire suit on.
[QUOTE=Bogie;4208692]
Per your questions:
- My vet recommended it and suggested the dosage for my use (trailering, getting my horse to overcome separation anxiety). I would not arbitrarily give my horse anything that I hadn’t discussed with my vet.
- How long does it last? I would say that after an hour it’s pretty much worn off but I think it depends on how much you give them, the size/weight of the horse, etc.
- I give it IM. you can certainly give it orally but it doesn’t take effect very quickly so you would need to plan when you dose the horse.
Honestly, this is something that people should discuss with their vets, not on a bulletin board. Ace affects different horses in different ways. The difference between a dose that “takes the edge off” and a dose that makes a horse look like it’s in a stupor is a fine line. Also, ace doesn’t always work. In some cases a horse that’s been dosed acts worse. It is not something that people should read about on line and try on their own.[/QUOTE]
In my humble inexperience, I’ve found that different vets have different ideas about this, so the results of asking the vet will depend very much on who the vet is.
So I think this is a really good subject for discussion.
i was shocked few years ago when i found out some people hunt on stoned horses.
this year when i decided to explore roading and capping with the local hunt it was suggested to me i give my mare some ace.
‘lucky’ for me my mare has heart murmur so the decision was simple - no thank you!
however, it does seem to be a pretty common practice from what i’ve seen so far…
I agree that the answer that you receive is highly dependent on whom you ask!
As a side note, I’ve found that feeding my TB a high fat diet (he gets two cups of oil/day) has caused a noticeable calming effect. I queried Dr. Valentine to find out if this was something that other people saw when they increased fat and she agreed that it was a common side effect. Certainly it’s worked better than any “calming supplement” that I’ve ever tried and it’s made him really shiny, too!
I wouldn’t ace a horse to ride it for any activity. I have good friends who have hunted for decades who do use ace routinely. Different strokes.
At the equine clinic where I work, no one is sold ace to be used as a riding tool, no one. From time to time an established client is able to purchase ace for a horse with a loading issue or transitioning from stall rest to turnout. Doc says if you have to ace the horse for the riding discipline, change horses or change disciplines. Parents of barrel racing and rodeo kids are the ones who most often walk in wanting to buy ace to take the edge off their overmounted kids horse. 
In 2007 I began hunting my lil mare. She is a ‘been there, done that’ mature gal and fox hunting was just another feather in her cap. She is now a pillar in the second flight of the hunt. We kind of form the sweep of that flight since she cares not at all if she is first, last or being made to walk beside an angst horse.
Last year I hunted another horse new to foxhunting, a mature gelding who was just a good trail horse. He was much keener and it took him most of the cub hunting season to learn that checks meant “stand still or graze”. He still keeps his ears on the hounds at all times with glances at the whips off in the distance. Awesome horse. My college age daughter, a fox hunting virgin, began hunting him in January. He packed her around the rest of the season perfectly.
Back in 2000 I tried hunting a gelding I owned. After 9 hunts I quit. He got worse and worse with each hunt- wigged way out. He had a lot of gifts to give but fox hunting was just not one of them. Today at age 24 he carts around a teenager on a local Quarter horse circuit.
