Biotin vs farriers formula

I used farriers formula for 1 year and I know feet take a long time but I’ve got a typical tiny footed QH who barely grew any foot ever and he was awful to keep sound. I moved to a new state and met with a vet/farrier team who suggested the combination of Hoof Power and Platinum Performance Hoof and this now 16 year old who has been living out his days in the pasture half sound has grown a completely new foot in just a matter of 6 months has gone up a shoe size and looks amazing trotting around the paddock. I have loved these two hoof supplements and will continue to pair them.

This is the cheapest I’ve found it even with shipping
http://www.centaurforge.com/Delta-Hoof-Power-Feed-Supplement-22-lbs/productinfo/606333/

I used Double Strength Farrier’s Formula and I have used Smartpak Hoof and neither made a difference. About 8 months after I started using Gro N Win RB my farrier made a comment that his feet were better.

They either have good feet or they don’t,supplements won’t change it. My 2 OTTBS have slow growing crappy feet…just means less trimming to do.

If hoof supplements are like the joint supplements, then they won’t work,not enough of any thing in it to make a difference.

[QUOTE=tazycat;8815020]
They either have good feet or they don’t,supplements won’t change it. My 2 OTTBS have slow growing crappy feet…just means less trimming to do.

If hoof supplements are like the joint supplements, then they won’t work,not enough of any thing in it to make a difference.[/QUOTE]

Hoof supplements absolutely DO work if they are providing the nutrition that the rest of the diet is lacking, and therefore not allowing feet to be their genetic best.

Put a horse on a diet that is low in protein, copper, zinc, and lysine, and chances are he’s going to have poor quality feet.

If he’s fat, therefore can’t have more calories, then feeding a supplement that makes up those things absolutely makes a difference, IF the poor quality is due to a nutritional deficiency.

Not enough of anything in them? That’s entirely dependent on the supplement. Is a hoof product that has, say, 2gm lysine, 30mg copper, and 60mg zinc going to make a difference? Not likely. But get one that is 10gm, 150mg, and 400mg, and now you’re talking about real potential. But again, it entirely depends on what the rest of the diet is providing.

“They either have good feet or they don’t” is true, but just like nutrition makes or breaks feet, so does the quality of the farrier/trimmer work. Horses can have crappy feet as a direct result of poor management. Fix the management, you often end up with really nice feet.

Comparing hoof supplements to joint supplements is pretty apples to oranges. Very different mechanisms that make each of them healthy.

Wasn’t comparing supplements… Used double strength farriers formula for 5 months did nothing. Management as in trimming or management as in feeding??? Can’t trim what’s not there.

Supplement i asked about has 150 mg copper & 350 mg zinc.

You said “If hoof supplements are like the joint supplements, then they won’t work,not enough of any thing in it to make a difference.” which, to me, is comparing them.

Joint supplements as feed-through products are indeed highly suspect. Pretty much anything that’s in a joint supplement that is ingested, and therefore digested, becomes useless as far as the joints go, when we’re talking about typical joint supplement ingredients - glucosamine, chondroitin sulfate, and more. A few things might have some value, if given in a large enough quantity, but pretty much all the research on those ingredients are either not in horses, or in such large quantities as to make it all but impossible to actually feed.

In contrast, we know a great deal about the vitamins and minerals - things the body already knows how to use - that are responsible for hoof quality. Studies HAVE been done proving that for some horses, supplementing straight biotin makes a difference, for example. We know that being deficient in certain amino acids detrimentally affect hoof quality, so therefore, supplementing them improves hoof quality.

Used double strength farriers formula for 5 months did nothing.

The failure of 1 product, on a few horses, does not equate to all hoof supplements being useless.

Management as in trimming or management as in feeding???

Both. Poor trimming can create feet that struggle in the quality department, as feet trimmed for long toes and underrun heels are much more likely to be more regularly chipping and cracking, with thinner soles.

Feeding such that nutrients are deficient - even if horses are in good weight - can absolutely degrade hoof quality

Can’t trim what’s not there.

No, you can’t, but studies HAVE proven that for some horses, biotin increases the rate of growth, so…

Supplement i asked about has 150 mg copper & 350 mg zinc.

There’s more to affecting hoof quality than those 2 things. And even then, you will have feet that are not genetically good feet, and you can’t change that.

[QUOTE=JB;8807800]
farrier’s formula has 20mg biotin per serving. That’s about the top end of what a horse can use at a time, IIRC.

Biotin is worthless without enough menthionine for it to be used. Most good hoof supplements take that into account.

If you had any desire to do the math, you could look at the horse’s entire diet and see if he has enough methionine to use the biotin he gets and makes, and if he has enough lysine to use the methionine (and so one) he gets.

Sometimes it’s cheaper to just make sure there’s enough lysine and methionine in the diet.[/QUOTE]

This.

Over the years, when they come off the track, I start them right away on FF. I used to get it back in the early 90’s by ordering straight from them. I’ve always had great luck with it.

I know the supplements are two different things,for two different purposes. I know just because it didn’t work for my 3 doesn’t mean a thing.

The more i read about hoofs and nutrition the more confusing it gets…The don’t feed high NSC, don’t feed anything with added Iron and the list goes on and on.

The 2 OTTBS i own have genetically crappy feet,so can’t change that.

[QUOTE=tazycat;8815441]

The 2 OTTBS i own have genetically crappy feet,so can’t change that.[/QUOTE]
Until you get their weight and digestive issues sorted out, and have them truly healthy for 6+ months, you don’t know that.

Ulcers negatively affect nutrient digestibility, so even if, on paper, they are getting enough nutrients ingested, they are likely not utilizing those nutrients to the best of their genetic ability.

This is what I use. http://www.horseherbs.com/product/hoofmaster-pellets/
It’s a Canadian product, so don’t know if it is available in the US. Works MUCH better than FF, which I have also used.

[QUOTE=mht;8816956]
This is what I use. http://www.horseherbs.com/product/hoofmaster-pellets/
It’s a Canadian product, so don’t know if it is available in the US. Works MUCH better than FF, which I have also used.[/QUOTE]

It doesn’t even have as much of the ingredients that FF has… Not sure what Beet Pulp is supposed to do for hoofs. That was one of active ingredients.

But it has other ingredients, and that goes to what I was saying earlier - sometimes we just don’t know what it is specifically that a given horse is missing, so while “the perfect” hoof supplement doesn’t work for that horse, the “imperfect” supplement does

Not sure what Beet Pulp is supposed to do for hoofs. That was one of active ingredients.

You have to mix those vitamins and minerals into something if you’re going to make a pellet :slight_smile:

Much good information given here.

I’d like to add in addition:

I’m not sure where you are, but I live in NC and we’ve had a weirdly hot/humid/dry/rainy summer. Horses’ hooves looked like crap! My farrier recommends application of Farrier’s Formula to the nail holes and soles - I think it is called Farrier’s formula - it’s the one formulated by a farrier. My barnmates’ farrier recommends the use of toilet sealant (comes in a waxy ring) to the nail holes to keep out the moisture. Both have had good results.

I started my horse on a biotin hoof supplement and my farrier said “yea, we’ll see how that works 9 months from now. In the mean time, please do this…”

I have used FF DS in the past and didn’t see any dramatic improvement. I will say, however, that I put one of my horses on Platinum Performance CJ for his joints (and the results have been amazing, BTW) and this formerly crappy footed horse is growing beautiful hooves. He had been on FF right up until I started him on the Platinum Performance. The change in his feet, skin, and coat are as impressive as his improved movement and comfort.

There is also a new hoof supplement out from Absorbine. Looks to be on par with Farrier’s Formula double strength but less expensive and you only have to feed 2oz instead of 4. http://absorbine.com/products/supplements/hooflex-hoof-builder-supplement/

Found a $10 mail-in rebate that they are offering too. With this it’s worth me giving it a try so just ordered some from Valley Vet. With the rebate it comes out to $0.53 a day. Oops rebate at http://absorbine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Hooflex_Supp_Rebate.pdf