That is my thought too, about the weight. My mare is 15.2 with a fine head and can get sore in her poll, so I can’t see hanging all that extra weight off her poll if I can avoid it. I am sending back the double I ordered because the crownpiece is too narrow. I still want something that will distribute the weight. With just the titanium snaffle, I don’t think the weight difference is a big deal for her, I just ended up buying the Fager because it seems to be the only loose ring Baucher in existence, and she tends to go better in loose ring snaffles.
Maybe all my horses are unicorns? They seem to go good any saddle and the full cheek snaffle i start them in and the eggbutts i transition them to. Is it just me, not being aware enough to recognize their picayunish, nuanced objections?
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For years I thought the same. All my horses went in fat, loose ring snaffles and I thought everything was fine. I would shake my head at people trying to find the “magic” bit.
Then I had a young horse who was always tricky with contact. I just assumed it was my bad riding, constantly blaming myself. The problem continued to get worse, not better. Pro trainers could get her to accept contact better than myself, but not without some behavioral issues. We dubbed her a “pro ride,” a horse who would always need an experienced rider, etc.
I started trying different bits out of desperation. But then one day I put the “right” kind of mouthpiece in and she was like a new horse immediately. Night and day difference!
What I learned is that when she is comfortable in her tack, she is the most ammy friendly kick ride around. When she is uncomfortable, she doesn’t want to play.
I still think a lot of people have unrealistic expectations and use bits to replace holes in training. But horses don’t all have the same mouth conformation, and what works for many horses can be downright uncomfortable for a different horse.
Thanks for reading my novel.
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I’ve had horses who could only handle a French link, or a Mullen. Standard snaffle was just too harsh for them.
I had the same experience with my horses before my MS got bad enough to cripple me.
Then I had to start negotiating with the horses. There they were, adapting to my ever worsening physical abilities, doing the best they could to adapt to my constantly changing body.
The main reason I started changing bits sort of regularly (every two or three years) was to give the horse something different to make up for the sheer boredom of walk, slow trot and some turns. The horses would get bored and start just shuffling around. When I put a different bit in their mouth they would get interested again for several months, then we would settle down to improving their reaction to my aids and doing more interesting variations. But eventually they would get bored again.
I prefer changing to a gentler bit and start exploring and improving the reaction to my minimal hand aids (I always use my legs a good bit).
But the the horse’s problems with his usual bit usually come up from boredom, and when the horse is bored there is nothing to distract the horse from his rider’s faults. When I was galloping in the fields, jumping and trail riding a lot the horses did not get bored, and I used the same bit for years and years without any problems. Essentially I and the horse came up with a negotiated settlement and I just did not have a lot of problems with the bits even when those bits were not “ideal” for the horse’s mouths.
There is no such thing as a “magic” bit for all horses. However there is such a thing of the rider having really good, sensitive hands, and riders with these good hands can successfully ride and train a horse in a less than ideal bit for the horse’s mouth, unless the horse’s mouth is really weird or is injured in some way.
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Mine protested against some dressage saddles,but never the bits. He was started in a hollow single-jointed eggbutt (not my choice but his breeder’s and it came with the horse). I didn’t want to change it immediately so I used it for 1-2 months. When I noticed he chomps upon bridling (obviously he didn’t like the material), I transitioned him to a HS copper double-jointed eggbutt kk ultra which is his favorite bit ever!
As our dressage progressed, he started to get a bit too strong and because his head is naturally positioned very high (typical jumper! ), I switched him to a HS kk ultra double-jointed sensogan baucher to help with that.
The baucher works great for flatworking but when we jump, occasionally I can’t make the correct distance (i.e 4 strides instead of 5 in a line), so I purchased a Micklem bridle to use it with my eggbutt (since a baucher bit is not compatible with this style of bridle).
If he’s still too strong when jumping courses, at most I’ll do is put him in a Stübben 4 in 1.
I spent a lot of time, money and effort to research & find the right solutions instead of just slapping a harsher bit, which I’ll very, very reluctantly do with a young horse.
Just as an aside, I’ve used a Baucher with a Micklem bridle, no problem.
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i like the baby fulmer! (https://fagerbitsusa.com/collections/bits-accessories/products/carl-titanium-baby-fulmer) It would be a great transition bit from the big full-cheek! Heck, might even stay right there if it’s as unobtrusive as it looks.
Going to sleep-on-it, but i think i’ll be ordering one in the morning. Thanks for the link Jackie :).
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@eightpondfarm. Please report how the Carl mouthpiece works for you. I have been wanting to read a detailed review ever since I first saw the picture of that bit.
I have been looking at the Carl bit since I started looking at the Fager bits. My previous favorite, favorite, favorite bit was the Dr. Bristol, the horses would communicate to me with their tongues more than any other snaffle bit I tried. But alas, Fager does not do Dr. Bristols, and for a long while the Carl was the most similar Fager bit to it. My problem is that with my MS hand problems the horses do not like me using the tongue relief bits. I did try the Frida winged tongue relief bit with the center plate like the Carl, the horses liked it better than the other tongue relief bit I tried, the Fanny single jointed bit, but the horses told me sharply to WATCH MY HANDS!!!
However a few months ago I tried a similar bit to the Carl, the Fager Alexander sweet iron bit with a copper center plate. I got contact fine with that one, which is a bar relief bit (no extra room for the tongue). The horses reached willingly for contact and did not fuss at all. I hope that someday they will make the Alexander bit in titanium because I like the flat center rectangular plate and the horses prefer I use the Fager snaffle bits without the extra room for the tongue.
Have fun with your new bit when you get it!
I really like my Fager bits. My old stainless steel bits are languishing in various bit boxes. The Fager bits work better for my hands than the old traditional English bit designs, at least that is what the horses tell me by their reactions to my contact and hand aids.
I have tried titanium and titanium coated bits on several lesson horses. Some of these horses have “gone on strike” when their old, previously acceptable stainless steel bits were put in their mouths, so be forewarned. Luckily I had some of the much cheaper titanium coated rainbow bits to give these horses, but I can’t get these any more except for the “comfort snaffle” type bits (these are still available on Ebay with using the search term “titanium snaffle bits”.)
I hope your horses love the Fager bits as much as the lesson horses I ride like them!
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i think i might get this one instead https://fagerbitsusa.com/collections/baby-fulmer/products/fredric-titanium-baby-fulmer. My fear with that Carl one won’t lay flat like they say…that it will dig into their tongue. This Fredric one wouldn’t do that.
I had the same fear about the Carl!
If the horses did not reject the tongue relief bits because of my hands I would get one to try out.
It is not only the Fager tongue relief bits that the horses object too. I had gotten a Bomber’s titanium tongue relief bit, unjointed, and I got “cussed out”.
I tried a Shire’s sweet iron tongue relief bit,again unjointed, and the horses’ mouths felt “dead”. I gave that one to my lesson stable.
The good thing about this is that it is obvious to me that I do not torture the horses’ tongues when I ride them. The bad thing is that my hands, right now, are just too unstable to do comfortable contact with the bars.
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I read in this blog that the flash interferes with the baucher…? Honestly, Rambo was so ill fitting for us, that I haven’t even tried this combination (just returned & ordered another brand micklem bridle). I’m using the baucher only with my dressage bridle now.
I didn’t use the bit clips (the plastic ones) when I had the baucher on the Micklem. Instead, I just used the leather bit hangers on the small, top ring of the baucher. You do have to be able to shorted the cheek pieces (as compared to using a standard-sized D-ring for example), but it worked just fine.
I used both a “regular” baucher and the HS b-ring (also called the butterfly baucher).
Edited to add: I just looked at the pix on the blog you posted. In the picture labelled “awkward,” if the rider had just shortened either the cheek piece or the bit hanger strap by one hole, it would have worked fine, in my opinion. I’d agree that the set-up in the “temporary placement” pic is not ideal.
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I have no idea if mine will even notice. They are all really green to dressage and contact. Only one of them (so far) seeks constant contact. I try to drop her for a break, or to have a little chat w/coach and she’ll go fishing for me…like will nose-dive! She’s on a thickish, full-cheek single joint snaffle and it is time to transition her to a thinner bit. Now…i have a question on these Fulmer bits, the Carl and the Frederic are quite thin! …won’t that be hard on the corners of their mouth in time? I LIKE what happens on the inside with the Frederic …but it’s only 12mm thick.
Bit thickness depends on mouth conformation. A thick bit in a small mouth is uncomfortable. I tried my mare in an old rubber bit that was too thick for her and she went from self bridling to avoiding the bridle, she just hated that much stuff in her mouth. Despite the fact the rubber should have been comfy.
Most folks start their horses in some kind of basic loose ring or D ring snaffle, and don’t start fine tuning until they are trying to work on clear contact. Or in the case of jumpers, they may feel a need to bit up to get more control on the jump course. If you are just starting your dressage journey with a green horse, any snaffle the horse accepts will be a good beginning.
There are bit fitters and bit fitting theories that take into account mouth size, tongue size, bar size, etc. If I was going to try to perfect my bit selection I would be self educating in that a bit.
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Good advice!~. i actually sent the link of this titanium bit over to my coach. She knows my hands and she knows my mare. I have good control with my clunky eggbutts and full cheeks. I KNOW these bits. re Dressage though…one thing i’m in-it-for is to improve my horsemanship. And one thing my coach has mentioned to me is maybe it’s time to move the mare from this full cheek when we bring her back. And i’m thinking that maybe it would be a good time for both she(mare) and me to learn a thinner bit. I’m going to rely on coachie-face to say: Yay or neigh.
You’re right, I don’t know much…it’s true. I don’t know about saddles/bridles/bits. All i really know …how to sit a horse and keep their mind in my hands.
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Interestingly my coach currently uses the Fuhlmer bit as much as possible. It’s similar at first glance to a full cheek but the full check part is solid to the mouth piece and then there is a loose ring. So it’s very mobile and also useful for lateral work and flexion. But I think it’s too mobile and even noisy for a green horse.
My mare was on a Boucher when I started riding her. She has always been light and above the bit. She accepted contact much better in the Fuhlmer. Then I also started riding her a lot in mechanical Hackamores and side pull because that seemed to help with forward. Lately I’ve been trying an old egg butt snaffle on her. She’s fine in that but I think it’s got less play than the Fuhlmer.
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Yes, i can see how you say less play. sure…a LOT less, esp if it’s double jointed and close fitting. And thin.
With that Fulmer i want…I think titanium is a win regardless of shape/size. Especially in the winter. And i know i need to get a thinner bit for my mare. Her baby-bit is thick (not that chubby kind, just medium thickness). But compared to the eggbutt i was going to put her into next, it’s thick. I suppooooze i could put her into that eggbutt, and give her time to learn more stuff, and then ratchet-up into more finesse. But, gosh darn…i wanna go shopPING!!! (back to bling browbands i guess LOL)
The horses I ride, except for one, have “told” me that they prefer the thinner bits over the thick bits. I have even got decent results with the Pee Wee bit, one of the thinnest bits out there.
It is all about the hands on the reins.
As a possibly interesting side note about the Fager bits, when I went out to ride this morning I picked up the wrong bridle. Both are double bridles, the one I picked up has a 135mm Fager Victoria mullen mouth Weymouth and a 130mm Fager Alice titanium double jointed bradoon with a roller in the middle. Her normal bridle now has a 125mm Fager Elisabeth titanium Weymouth and a 120mm Fager Alice titanium bradoon.
She did not gape, she did not toss her head around, she pretty much acted like she does wearing a bridle with correctly sized bits, except for an occasional grumble about dumb, stupid humans. She even backed up more easily than usual.
Next week I will be more careful about which bridle I pick up. It could have been so much worse, but this mare did not seem to care that much that both bits were TOO WIDE in her mouth. It was hot and humid and neither Shannon or me were that perceptive this morning or we would have caught it when tacking up or before. A really lame excuse I know, and this mare now feels fully vindicated in her opinion that humans can be really dumb at times!
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ALL the horses I ride prefer titanium bits, and ALL the horses I ride prefer the Fager titanium bits. This is why I have spent a lot of money on Fager bits, the only other bit that I have used that got anywhere near this universal approval was my Wellep regular cheek snaffles (no longer made, none available now on Ebay except 2 without the center cable that goes through the mouthpiece and has the rings for the reins.)
And by now I own a LOT of Fager bits. I only ride lesson horses and I like being prepared with solutions when I run into problems, and the horses accept the Fager bits quite well.
Now the horses do not like ALL the Fager titanium bits in my hands. They do not approve of me using the tongue relief bits and their tongues get stiffer with a lozenge center piece( because of my hand problems from my MS), but Fager makes enough different types of bits so I can find something they like.
And none of them seem to think that the Fager bits are too thin at all. I think that they appreciate having more room in their mouths for their tongues.
Another thing that Fager makes is their Fager Friction and Rubbing Gel (tastes like carrots.) I have not had to use this at all since none of the horses have ever gotten sores from any of the bits I use, but if you are worried about the bits being too thin and “sharp” this might help you and your horse.
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