I agree with others who have made suggestions on groundwork, and additional flatwork training, as well as, of course, a dental/vet check up to check for problems.
However, I can say that my old event horse (OTTB, super strong puller) was quite easy to ride when I tried him in a Dr. Bristol. I was able to be very subtle with my hand while using it.
I didn’t leave him in it all the time, but would occasionally go back to it on days where he was quite fresh.
I’ve found that its useful to have several bits to choose from, and change up as training progresses.
I usually use a rubber mullen mouth pelham for you situation. Use the snaffle 99% of the time but had the curb if needed. Plus lots of flatwork.
You never want to discourage forward in a horse. You want to let her know relaxation is OK. There’s a reason rhythm and relaxation are at the bottom of the training scale. Keep that in YOUR mind when you work her. You can do a lot of transitions and changes within the walk and trot.
With a horse like this I will put them in a running (no standing) martingale and some kind of snaffle. Make sure the martingale is adjusted correctly. Lots of arena and trail work at the walk only (you’ll work up a sweat insisting on the walk on the trail at first) but timing is most important here. Do not keep backwards rein contact at the walk. Teach her to listen to your seat not just rein and when she slows allow her to lengthen and lower her neck even if it’s just for a second to start. It’s a lot of work at the start.
If she wants to go faster than a walk in the arena canter her until she wants to slow down and keep her going more. She’ll learn to slow or halt when you ask.
Also work on the halt and back in the arena using seat and upper thighs to cue halt, not backwards rein. Think of it as a forward movement. When she’s relaxed at the walk work move up to the trot.
Probably the most import thing is that YOU stay relaxed, keep your sessions fairly short and be consistent in your work.
JMHO
I have a horse that can get a bit forward. He tends to get a bit locked in the jaw. For dressage I use a Myler baucher as he seems to like the stability of that bit.
For xc jumping and trail riding I used to use a Waterford D ring. I have lately switched to a 3 piece Beval Bit/Wonder Bit.
http://cotswoldsport.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_67&products_id=526&zenid=5855bbc1de1c5b49fb93839d0ea2c061 It has a little leverage that keeps him from really diving down.
For foxhunting he goes in a Myler Combo bit with 2 reins.
I had a tb that was perfect in the ring, could ride off your seat, etc. But his ring work did not transition to trail riding (he was very smart–it was like he was saying “na na na, I don’t have to listen to you now!”). When I used a snaffle on him out on the trail I was constantly in his mouth. If I used a kimberwicke I could cue and release and he responded. He was much happier.
I also used a leverage hackamore on him sometimes. But I would have to switch it up; if I used it too many rides in a row he would start blowing through it. When he was older I did a bit of foxhunting on him when my hunter was lame, and I used a Myler combo which worked well (SonnysMom loaned me one to try before I made the big investment).
How is he to trail ride alone? Maybe work on getting him responsive when he’s out by himself before you go out with others.
[QUOTE=thoroughbred21;8783845]
I know it is usual to preach the “hours of retraining no tack fixes” mantra, and maybe it works for some people, but honestly I think it drives a lot of people to sell horses on or get out of horses altogether.
A good bit which sends a clear signal is no sin to use. I’m not talking about cruel tack or abrupt corrections, but if you have a well-started horse who is taking over, considering a clearer signal system is not a training failure.[/QUOTE]
THANK YOU!
Lots of us out here aren’t perfect. Waiting to ride out until the ground work is perfect … is what gives you those folks who want to ride out, or ride at all, but never do.
On the subject at hand… my mare … also a Morgan … normally goes in am eggbutt snaffle with a bean. She’s super responsive. BUT in certain trail situations she can get a little overenthusiastic; she’s got an eventer’s brain and can also get silly about other horses when trotting or cantering. I found myself using her “emergency brake” more than I’d like. I really don’t want to use it at all, or rather don’t want her to ever learn that’s the only way I can really stop her.
I switched to a Pelham… a Stubben with a VERY short shank and the same mouthpiece as her snaffle. I mostly ride off the snaffle but find she is just way more relaxed and I can ride off my seat a lot better too, just having that second rein and a bit of leverage. Can’t tell you how many Morgan owners I know who have found that just a little leverage is a good thing… these horses tend to have tiny crowded mouths and poll pressure may be more comfortable for them to respond to than mouth pressure.
Retraining when the main problem is issues with other horses isn’t easy when you can’t find buddies who will ride with you and help you train. Most people don’t really want to school on the trail, or be held back by someone who is schooling.
You don’t have to be perfect to train a horse, you can be very mediocre. You just need to be consistent and put the time in. It does not happen overnight. It’s a process and takes time. And it’s the best thing you can do for your horse - make him/her a good solid citizen and that horse will always be able to find a good home. Whoa is the #1 most important thing a horse needs to know. It’s hard to get into trouble while a horse is standing still. You can keep changing up equipment, but there is nothing that will stop a 1000 lb horse if he doesn’t want to stop.
I understand that eventing/competition has different requirements than trail riding, but this is a trail riding forum so I am limiting my above comments to trail horses. IMHO, to make a horse a good trail horse, you need to do a lot of desensitizing to different objects and situations, and you need to teach your horse to whoa and slow down on cue. If your horse doesn’t spook and will slow/stop on cue, you’ll probably have a nice trail ride.
For those who are doing well at home but have issues on the trail, can you go to a small schooling show or playday (after checking with management) and ride around there to get some exposure? If there is a good trainer nearby, pay to ship in and ride with the trainer around the farm and on trails if they have access. Lessons don’t have to be restricted to the ring. If I am competing or find myself in a sticky spot, I don’t hesitate to put the horse onto the trailer and go ride with someone who can help me. I find it money very well spent, and it’s good to have a fresh set of eyes on your problems.
[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8816779]
You don’t have to be perfect to train a horse, you can be very mediocre. You just need to be consistent and put the time in. It does not happen overnight. It’s a process and takes time. And it’s the best thing you can do for your horse - make him/her a good solid citizen and that horse will always be able to find a good home. Whoa is the #1 most important thing a horse needs to know. It’s hard to get into trouble while a horse is standing still. You can keep changing up equipment, but there is nothing that will stop a 1000 lb horse if he doesn’t want to stop.
I understand that eventing/competition has different requirements than trail riding, but this is a trail riding forum so I am limiting my above comments to trail horses. IMHO, to make a horse a good trail horse, you need to do a lot of desensitizing to different objects and situations, and you need to teach your horse to whoa and slow down on cue. If your horse doesn’t spook and will slow/stop on cue, you’ll probably have a nice trail ride.
For those who are doing well at home but have issues on the trail, can you go to a small schooling show or playday (after checking with management) and ride around there to get some exposure? If there is a good trainer nearby, pay to ship in and ride with the trainer around the farm and on trails if they have access. Lessons don’t have to be restricted to the ring. If I am competing or find myself in a sticky spot, I don’t hesitate to put the horse onto the trailer and go ride with someone who can help me. I find it money very well spent, and it’s good to have a fresh set of eyes on your problems.[/QUOTE]
Excellent advice as well.
There’s also the reality that some horses, no matter what bit, will never be a good trail horse.
Palm Beach, I’ve been doing pretty much exactly what you wrote about with my horse for all the time I’ve had her. She’s really quite a good trail horse, much improved over where I started with her, and I take her on a lot of field trips, which include dealing with some things that are pretty scary.
Just last Saturday, I rode her across a street (and back) behind what could have terrified a lot of horses – a 4 truck tree crew parked by the side of the road with 2 bucket trucks and a chipper. Nothing terrible happened. She gave them the hairy eyeball when we first crossed the road, before they started working. Coming back, got a little spook when they dropped a branch and started stuffing it into the chipper, but I trusted her and apparently she trusted me, as we ended up crossing the street on a long rein with me telling her how very very brave she was. To be fair, if the second crossing had really been too much, I did have another way to get back to the barn.
We are headed to a recognized dressage show this weekend, not to show but as help for a horse that travels better on the trailer with a buddy. She’s listed as a “non-compete” horse, and I’ll have her out and about while we are there. My (mostly dressage riding) barn-mates are pretty amazed at everything I do with her.
She has her opinions, and can get silly, but she also came to me with good basic ground manners and in general is a “take care of you” type horse. She’s smart, and I pay attention to what she’s telling me.
There are just times when it’s just smarter for her to have more than a very mild snaffle in her mouth.
Sounds like you are on the right track. The only thing I would have done differently would be to not ride on a long rein while crossing the street. She was great but not perfect with the tree crew, which means she trusts you but is not 100% confident. I’d have kept a little bit of contact and kept up a little conversation with her until we were back on home turf and away from things that could cause problems. Usually when riders are on a long rein they are leaving the horse alone, and a horse that lacks a little confidence then allows doubts to creep back in. It’s kind of like holding hands - you aren’t dragging anyone anywhere, it’s just a reassuring contact.
My mare’s previous owner was a very competitive eventer. When I got her she only knew forward. Dry mouth, tense jaw and she went on every trail ride with adrenaline flowing and on a mission. She would lock her large neck (Percheron/TB cross) and bolt.
Yes she went into professional training but I am not as good a rider as the professional, so I tried the Kimberwick with a mullen mouth. Initially, I was determined that she ride in a simple snaffle but she has very strong opinions about her tack, especially her bit, and a french link was not appreciated. She loves the Kimberwick, or at least the mullen mouth. It’s the only bit that she sucks up with her lips when bridling (she will clench her jaw tight if she doesn’t like a bit, or have a complete hissy fit while riding - no to Neue Schule, Sprenger, Stubben and a huge no to Myler) and it’s the only bit that I have no fight with when trail riding.
She respects this bit and it doesn’t piss her off.
She’s relaxed, I’m relaxed - so glad I tried this bit.
[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8817578]
Sounds like you are on the right track. The only thing I would have done differently would be to not ride on a long rein while crossing the street. She was great but not perfect with the tree crew, which means she trusts you but is not 100% confident. I’d have kept a little bit of contact and kept up a little conversation with her until we were back on home turf and away from things that could cause problems. Usually when riders are on a long rein they are leaving the horse alone, and a horse that lacks a little confidence then allows doubts to creep back in. It’s kind of like holding hands - you aren’t dragging anyone anywhere, it’s just a reassuring contact.[/QUOTE]
I meant long as in “have contact but not holding.” I’m not much for “on the buckle” trail riding, being just a bit too timid and knowing I’m on a horse who has a spook. It’s over in half a second, but a little contact helps me feel it coming!
She’s 18; I’m not anticipating she will change a whole lot, but it’s been a great journey with her. (Oh and BTW … clinic over Labor Day weekend and since I know the clinicians will have us out in the fields, I specifically requested help with the silliness over other horses cantering and trotting.)
BTW, your mare is super cute!!
I suspect that both rider and horse would benefit from some professional training.
Most fox hunting riders have no need to be heavy handed, and most fox hunting rental agencies vet their horse rider combos well. Their reputations depend on providing sensible safe mounts, and not every fox hunter rides first flight, so they must be able to rate their horse. These agencies cannot afford to have their horses injured by bad riding.
I like Waterford snaffle on those types of horse. A Cherry Roller snaffle has a similar effect-oversize rollers give the horse no purchase to lean on. Last resort would be a 3 ring elevator bit with a french link-use it with two reins. You can ride off the snaffle but you have some serious leverage available on demand.
