You can see what bits are legal here:
http://www.usef.org/documents/FormsPubs/DressageEquipmentBooklet.pdf
[QUOTE=~Freedom~;3569448]
Just a little note. You REALLY DO NOT have to answer EVERY question about bits. There are actually people on this forum that have had experience in bits outside of pelhams that actually know what they are talking about ( as pointed out about the mullen mouth). ;)[/QUOTE]
Freedom, a BB is open for anybody to post, and the fact that somebody may be wrong is not a reason not to post. Sometimes, you learn when somebody corrects something you always believed to be true.
Bitting is always problematic because of regional differences in terminology as well, so it’s best to clarify. I always get the heebies when I read “Kimberwicke”, but accept that it’s not wrong, it’s just different. I often read of straight bars being referred to as mullen mouths, although generally that name is reserved for a curved mouthpiece.
To the OP : I’m not sure a horse in a Kimbelwicke can ever be “on the bit” correctly. If you do change bits, you are going to have to engage in some reschooling.
Where are your reins attached on your kimberwick? That makes a big difference.
There on the bottom slot. She responds to other bits doesn’t take off with me, but the only problem is she isn’t comfortable and is constantly throwing her head.
I agree that horse aren’t technically on the bit in a kimberwicke…and on the bottom attatchment is pretty strong…you need to do some reschooling and put her in a milder bit. Be very aware of how much contact you have on her mouth…most likely why she runs through your hands is because she relates bit pressure to going forward where you really want the opposite…put her in a snaffle of whatever she likes…seriously try a mullen happy mouth and start out at the walk and get her listening to you…ride on LIGHT contact and keep her slow…don’t clamp on her face.
Honestly that’s really my only answer for you…bits are wonderful but the riding is more important.
If she doesn’t take off with you…so you are not having a trouble with breaks…but is constantly throwing her head…sounds like she has more of an issue with what is “in” her mouth then you have need for the curb action of the Kimberwick. What type of mouth piece does your kimberwick have? But on the bottom slots is pretty darn strong…
A myler bit might be more what she needs but the only one legal for dressage is the comfort snaffle. Like this one:
http://www.doversaddlery.com/product.asp?pn=X1-01300&idu=1384BD742NXL&ids=627072147&bhcd2=1223571036
I have used it on several fussy horses with success. It is thin and lays nicley in their mouth…but I have another horse that likes a thicker mouth piece…she goes in a HS KK Ultra. I’ve had others that were initially happier in a rubber mullen mouth…
Basically, you need to find out what mouth piece she likes…it may be the type of mouth piece, the metal (or not metal), how it hangs in her mouth…for example a boucher will sit a bit different have a different action (poll pressure) then bit with a similar mouth piece. Spend some time educating your self on the different types of bits and how they work…it will help you sort out what type of bit will work for her rather than just blindly trying anything.
Personally, when trying any new bit, I would put her on a lung line with side reins and watch her reaction…then you can rule out her fussy behavior that may be a result of the rider’s hands or weight.
Good luck and remember…it isn’t always about the bit.
I have tried the myler comfort snaffle, she seems to hate this bit the most just not happy at all… The mouth peice on the kimberwick is a low port, I don’t know what it is about it but she loves this bit, I have pretty much no contact with her mouth when riding as I know it’s a harsh bit
If you have no contact…her issue may not be the bit. It sounds like she is just plain not submissive to bits. I have a mare like that…will get 8/9 on gaits…and 4s on submission in a dressage test. It has taken years of work to get her better…and she will never be an easy horse to ride…I get “tackfully ridden” a LOT on judges comments.
If she didn’t like the myler…I would try a thicker mouth piece and see what she does. But all of these bits are “weaker” than what you are currently using. That is the point about showing in dressage.
I guess I would try D-ring or non-loose ring double jointed snaffle. I would also see what she did with a non-metal bit. Like a happy mouth or the one I prefer is this:
Love this bit and have had very good responses with it when teaching a horse about accepting a bit. It is about the mildest thing you can use (and is legal). My missy fussy/non-submissive went in it for a good year.
There are more affordable versions though…it is an expensive bit to experiment with but one of my favorites in my bit “collection”. (that’s what you acquire when you have a BAD tack buying habit and more than one horse!!)
I have read that horses who like kimberwicks and pelhams in terms of how they are carried in the mouth tend to do better in bauchers, because of the fixed cheek holding the bit up in the mouth.
My big guy absolutely despised a french link eggbutt- chewed on it and ground his teeth and gnashed and gnawed. On the other hand, he’s happy in his single jointed baucher.
The other thing that helps is a flash- he was OK in a loose ring snaffle with a flash. I think he just dislikes too much action or movement in his bits, or maybe tongue pressure.
Unfortunately, to do dressage you have to get her happy not just with having a bit in her mouth, but with contact. It sounds like she’s really not there yet. Hopefully some of the advice others give will help.
[QUOTE=citydog;3569446]
If the horse has a low palatte the single joint of that boucher will still hit her in the roof of the mouth.[/QUOTE]
There are french link Bouchers. My old horse loved his and he was very light, but had a large palate, shallow mouth, big tongue. I don’t regard it as severe, but some horses just “like” it better. He hated the Myler dressage legal comfort snaffle, as did my youngster, who’s now going in the Steubben version of the KK “bead” loosering.
I’m deffently very interested in the baucher bits now! Now the only problem is deciding the mouth piece. I have heard the french link works, Someone said on another form a JP baucher, what is this?
JP is a bit by Korsteel that has a curve (not an upward curve like a port, but a forward curve like the Myler, but a little more subtle).
Here are some bits I’ve been thinking about trying for my tense, busy mouthed boy:
Here is a whole page of different baucher bits from England
http://thesaddleryshop.co.uk/ProductList.aspx?Order=PriceUp&SubCat=237
[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;3570366]
Basically, you need to find out what mouth piece she likes…it may be the type of mouth piece, the metal (or not metal), how it hangs in her mouth…for example a boucher will sit a bit different have a different action (poll pressure) then bit with a similar mouth piece. Spend some time educating your self on the different types of bits and how they work…it will help you sort out what type of bit will work for her rather than just blindly trying anything.
Personally, when trying any new bit, I would put her on a lung line with side reins and watch her reaction…then you can rule out her fussy behavior that may be a result of the rider’s hands or weight.
Good luck and remember…it isn’t always about the bit.[/QUOTE]
I like the advice from Expensive about trying the bit on the longe with side reins.
About the boucher, however; it does not create real poll pressure (or it would be in the same category with gag bits as far as legal use, I expect). What it does do is influence the position of the mouthpiece, and how/where the bit applies pressure in the mouth. This still may be a good suggestion for your horse.
The next time you require information on mechanical engineering, bits, draft horses, stirrup lengths and a few other topics that are within Ambrey’s VAST reservoir of knowledge I will notify her so she can follow you around and ensure you get the benefit of that huge store of knowledge she has. I would hate for you to get input from only just one side.:winkgrin:
Ever consider that he is accepting that bit?
Fortunately, to do dressage you have to get her happy not just with having a bit in her mouth, but with contact. It sounds like she’s really not there yet. Hopefully some of the advice others give will help.
Yeah, that’s it. Get her to accept NOT having a bit in her mouth, and you will be half way to Ambrey’s version of Dressage. NOT.
OP, remember, [edit]. No matter how they spin it, not all people who talk about bits actually know what they are talking about.
Very true and thanks for clarifying…I was just being a bit lazy. And I also agree that the OP’s horse might like one…it is something that I found works well with horses that like pehlams…wasn’t sure if a kimberwick really was similar or not. I’ve always avoided Kimberwicks since you couldn’t control the snaffle v. curb action and have typically only use Pelhams (w/two sets of reins) if I thought we needed curb action (only for jumping/galloping not dressage ;))
Let’s keep the thread focused on bits, not other posters. We’ve removed/edited a couple of posts.
Thanks!
Mod 1
[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;3571339]
…it is something that I found works well with horses that like pehlams…[/QUOTE]
I wonder if this is because the pelham or kimberwick generally has a similar separate attachment point for the cheeks.
OP, what does your kimberwick look like?
It may also have to do with the weight (oz. not thickness) of the bit. Whatever bit you decide to try, you might look for one with simmilar ‘heft’ to what you are using now. OTOH, if you are going in for the schooling from the ground up approach, I’d try somthing lighter.
