Black Forest treeless saddle...

[PRS]

@Auventera Two;4861779

Well, I guess I would take that information a different way. Dressage riders do not have veterinarians inspecting their horse’s backs for soreness, hair loss, or galling, before, during, and after their performance tests. If the horse’s movement is a bit lacking, and it is reflected in the scores - that could be the result of anything from saddle fit, to the rider’s equitation and ability to apply aids correctly. There are no vet checks throughout a dressage show, so you don’t have that professional input on how your horse’s back is doing, EVERY time you compete.

THIS. Exactly what I was saying. Endurance and related sports are the only equestrian sports I know of where a veterinarian checks and scores the conditon of the horse before, during and after competition. Endurance is not a sport where iffy fitting tack would be OK. I don’t compete in endurance but I do go for lengthy rides and my opinion is if it works in endurance for 50 - 100 miles it should work for my 15 or 20. I would guess that Endurance riders HAVE to be educated on proper saddle fit. Why do people get the idea that they just don’t care and will throw any old saddle on Dobbin and head out for a 100 mile ride? If treeless is successfully being used by endurance racers then that’s the wagon I want to ride on.

Edited to add: BTW I DID work with a professional saddle fitter when I purchased my Sensation Treeless Saddle.

[mp]

[QUOTE=PRS;4862193]
Why do people get the idea that they just don’t care and will throw any old saddle on Dobbin and head out for a 100 mile ride? If treeless is successfully being used by endurance racers then that’s the wagon I want to ride on.

Edited to add: BTW I DID work with a professional saddle fitter when I purchased my Sensation Treeless Saddle.[/QUOTE]

Mmmm … not exactly what I said. I meant treeless saddles aren’t a panacea for saddle fit. And that I’ve seen people go to treeless saddles as a kind of easy way out, thinking treeless fits everyone/every horse. And the majority of these folks ended up with sore-backed horses. Because a saddle has to fit, no matter what.

BTW, I would conjecture that dressage riders are so interested in saddle fit because of the work their horses are asked to do. Horses can lock down their backs and move right out despite a saddle that doesn’t fit very well (or a rider who sucks). But to release and lift the back, allowing the energy to flow back to front – IOW, the basics for everything in dressage, from TL to GP – you must have a saddle that fits.

[PRS]

[QUOTE=mp;4862281]
Mmmm … not exactly what I said. I meant treeless saddles aren’t a panacea for saddle fit. And that I’ve seen people go to treeless saddles as a kind of easy way out, thinking treeless fits everyone/every horse. And the majority of these folks ended up with sore-backed horses. Because a saddle has to fit, no matter what. [/QUOTE]

Which is why I strongly encourage anyone interested in trying to go treeless to join the treeless saddles group on Yahoo! groups. There is a ton of information and wisdom on that group. Many of the members compete in endurance, some do dressage, some are like me just regular trail riders…all of us are interested in getting the best saddle for our horses and ourselves and NONE of us claim that treeless is for everyone or for every horse. However, any given treeless saddle will fit a larger group of horses than any given treed saddle. BUT care must be taken to provide a proper pad. In fact, when going treeless, it is best to think of the pad as part of the saddle. The choice of padding, girth, and saddle should be thought of as the whole package. What combination works for one horse might not work for another. Anybody who chooses to try going treeless should work with an experienced rep/saddle fitter just like you would when buying a treed saddle. I cringe when I see those E-Bay saddles being sold and no disclaimer or education comes with them cautioning riders to obtain a proper pad made for treeless saddles.
People get those saddles and throw them on their horses with out providing for spinal clearance or anythiing…they are likely to have problems and start spouting off about how treeless saddle don’t work and made their horse sore etc. One thing we can agree on is education and proper fit are important

[pintopiaffe]

Speaking of Stressahge…

What do folks think of this saddle for proper dressage position?

Price is reasonable, and I like the synthetic availability, for a young horse saddle that I won’t have to worry about fit as much.

(and yes, I’m very, very experienced with saddle fitting, treed & non)

Just wondering though if it’s supportive enough for dressage work? Forward enough for a little jumping? (Little being the operative word )

[Auventera_Two]

@PRS;4862332

Which is why I strongly encourage anyone interested in trying to go treeless to join the treeless saddles group on Yahoo! groups. There is a ton of information and wisdom on that group. Many of the members compete in endurance, some do dressage, some are like me just regular trail riders…all of us are interested in getting the best saddle for our horses and ourselves and NONE of us claim that treeless is for everyone or for every horse. However, any given treeless saddle will fit a larger group of horses than any given treed saddle. BUT care must be taken to provide a proper pad. In fact, when going treeless, it is best to think of the pad as part of the saddle. The choice of padding, girth, and saddle should be thought of as the whole package. What combination works for one horse might not work for another. Anybody who chooses to try going treeless should work with an experienced rep/saddle fitter just like you would when buying a treed saddle. I cringe when I see those E-Bay saddles being sold and no disclaimer or education comes with them cautioning riders to obtain a proper pad made for treeless saddles.
People get those saddles and throw them on their horses with out providing for spinal clearance or anythiing…they are likely to have problems and start spouting off about how treeless saddle don’t work and made their horse sore etc. One thing we can agree on is education and proper fit are important

Exactly.

[Leather]

My BF Shasta and Grandeur Vario pad got two big thumbs up from my DVM chiro.

I sent them with my mare for her month at “school” and the trainer was a bit skeptical because his only experience was with the older ones that slipped or didn’t have good spine clearance.

But he liked it so much he ordered one!

Not just for his own comfort, but due to the reaction of his horses when he tried it on them.

Both his Paso and Appy moved out more freely than they ever had before.

As others have said, you need to educate yourself on saddle fit regardless of whether or not your saddle has a tree.

[PRS]

[QUOTE=PRS;4862332]
I cringe when I see those E-Bay saddles being sold and no disclaimer or education comes with them cautioning riders to obtain a proper pad made for treeless saddles.
People get those saddles and throw them on their horses with out providing for spinal clearance or anythiing…they are likely to have problems and start spouting off about how treeless saddle don’t work and made their horse sore etc. One thing we can agree on is education and proper fit are important ;)[/QUOTE]

Speaking of which…just out of curiosity I occasionally look at E-bay to see what kind of saddles are out here being sold and for how much…saw an ad for a treeless saddle that claimed that no pad was necessary…dumb, dumb, dumb. I can honestly say that I would never feel comfortable riding any saddle without a pad…wether it is to protect my horses back or my saddle. http://cgi.ebay.com/17-Black-Treeless-Western-English-Endurance-Saddle-/380231617133?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5887920a6d

[Huntertwo]

@PRS;4864008

Speaking of which…just out of curiosity I occasionally look at E-bay to see what kind of saddles are out here being sold and for how much…saw an ad for a treeless saddle that claimed that no pad was necessary…dumb, dumb, dumb. I can honestly say that I would never feel comfortable riding any saddle without a pad…wether it is to protect my horses back or my saddle. http://cgi.ebay.com/17-Black-Treeless-Western-English-Endurance-Saddle-/380231617133?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5887920a6d

I like to check Ebay also, and notice the same Tack Shop has a bunch of those saddles listed all the time.

[PRS]

[QUOTE=Huntertwo;4864127]
I like to check Ebay also, and notice the same Tack Shop has a bunch of those saddles listed all the time.[/QUOTE]

And it’s no wonder that people speak out against treeless saddles and believe they are bad for the horse when irresponsible people sell them without attempting to educate their clients and ignorant people have failed to learn what they need to know to protect their horse. :sigh:

[Auventera_Two]

I’ve heard of horses getting really sore from treeless saddles when the right pad isn’t used. The pad is the most crucial part, in my opinion. The heavier the rider is, the more important pad selection is.