Blanketing + Weight Loss

[Scribbler]

Ok that’s starting to get worrying. You are describing a Henneke 3/10 body score. 5 is glossy show horse, 4 is racing fit, 3 is something you don’t want to ride, and 2 is call the SPCA now. Whatever is going on, he needs more good quality hay now. Free choice hay 24/7 until he stabilizes. Put him on free choice hay now.

Weigh the hay. Most horses need about 20 lbs a day to maintain. A horse that’s really underweight can easily need 30 lbs a day.

If the barn manager doesn’t see this is a crisis then move barns yesterday.

[Bryan]

He should not be losing that kind of weight that quickly. There is something significantly wrong. What you are describing temperature wise under the blanket is not unusual. If he is not shivering, it is not critical there. However, there is something going on. He is getting to an age where you need to be concerned about Cushings. The teeth should also be checked by a dentist. There are really two possibilities (or a combination of both): 1. Not enough high quality food. 2. Some health issue.

One thing you did not mention is what feed is he on. There is some pretty crap feed on the market. We have seen horses put on significant needed weight coming from other barns simply from the feed and hay switch.

Also, you are talking about the amount of hay, but what quality is it? Hay is not created equal, even within the same type. I would also think about switching to a barn that is closer to you, if this continues.

[Catherine616]

After following this thread I started checking under my mare’s turnout to see how she felt - she sometimes feels “cool” and sometimes quite warm depending on what she is wearing that day but she is fat and comfortable. Do you have a picture of your horse?

[fourfillies]

Can you verify the hay ration without being super obvious? Six flakes a day even if small has to be close to 20 pounds and should be enough to keep him warm and his weight pretty stable given he’s not in heavy work or out in the wind much.

[Catherine616]

I think you have two issues going on - you aren’t happy with the blanketing at the barn, and your horse is losing weight - and they aren’t necessarily related. I went through this recently with my gelding losing weight at a boarding barn. If you are comfortable with the number of calories he is receiving you probably should get a vet involved. It’s very frustrating I know!

[scislandsprite]

Agreed. I honestly would’ve moved if this was my horse who’s an easy keeper. OP, I’m in MA and have boarded in multiple places in the state, if you want to PM me a vague idea of where you are, I can send some barn names if you’re uncomfortable with posting it here.

[Feldspar21]

@Scribbler Unfortunately, at this barn, free choice is not really an option. I’ve tried my best to come as close to that as possible from the beginning (paying extra for 2 additional hay feedings), however there are clearly times throughout his day that he does not have access to hay. Also, I’m probably exaggerating about the weight thing. I was trying to get the point across that it is indeed weight loss as a whole, not exclusively diminishing muscle mass that I’m seeing, which was a question raised by someone. While all the things I said are true (and obviously I should not be seeing any of that), all those factors are not extremely obvious, and I think I am only able to tell how much the weight loss is because I see him and have my hands on him so much. I think if a random person saw him naked in a field, especially with all the fluff, they probably wouldn’t look twice.

@Bryan Hay quality appears to be quite variable, but this is true of most of New England right now from what I’ve seen. It really seems to have varied by the truck load. Thank you for your thoughts!

@Catherine616 No current picture. As mentioned to Scribbler, I’m probably being a wee bit dramatic. If you didn’t know what he looked like this past summer, you might not look twice. Especially with the thick winter coat. Yes! Two issues. That may be totally unrelated, maybe contributing to each other, or, who knows.

@fourfillies I do try to come to the barn when they’re supposed to be feeding him whenever my schedule allows so that I can at least try to eyeball it when it’s freshly put in his stall. I tend to agree with you that it SHOULD be enough, especially since he’s always been such an easy keeper!

@scislandsprite I will PM you! I’d love some recommendations. Finding barns where I am that aren’t insane $$$$, have decent turnout, feed your horse etc is HARD!

@Clover5 Oh GOD… that is… yikes. This one barn I was at I overheard a mucker say “yeah she (assuming BO/BM??) said that he needs to put some weight on, so I’ve been giving him some of my lunch every day! He loves Doritos!” Well intentioned, but…

Okay, so game plan: I’m going to start barn shopping. I’m not going to leap into it and move him to the next barn I hear back from, but I’m going to start the process. I don’t want to have to move barns yet again after this (previous moving was due to job changing or myself moving locations, but still, we’ve moved around a lot the past few years).

I’m going to make a blanket chart that is clear for the kids to follow. I know they mean well, and I think with some supplemental instruction, that will improve. Nothing crazy, not asking for a million blanket changes, but simply from x-y temperature use a medium, from y-z temperature use a heavy.

The vet is coming out to do vaccinations and teeth a few times throughout January and February. I will call the office tomorrow and ask that they pull blood to test ACTH levels the next time that they’re out. This vet is the same vet that has been doing his teeth the past several times. I will work on finding a reputable dentist in my area, but if the barn dental appointment comes before I can get a dentist out, I’m leaning towards keeping that appointment, and then getting a second opinion later on.

Regarding the food… I’m still not quite sure what to do while I’m still at this barn, besides try and keep an eye on how much he’s getting when I go… I can talk to vet about it, although I’m not sure how that will go, as I can’t make it to the barn to see him in person about it during the appointment. I’ll mention it to his secretary when I call about the Cushings test, but it’s hard when I can’t be there with him and the horse talking about it! And as we know, barn has different ideas about how this should be managed.

[LSMarnell]

With rapid weight loss, plus loss of muscle mass, plus his Morgan breeding, and his age… I would have him tested for PPID as soon as possible. You could have your answer right there.

[Pally]

It seems like you have a plan to go with. In the meantime, is adding some type of forage pellet (or cube, but pellets might be simpler) to his “grain” feeding a possibility? It sounds like forage inconsistency (either in feeding, supply, or both) is not helping your situation. The pellets may be simpler for the barn staff to accurately measure (a scoop vs a flake) and won’t change nutritional value from bag to bag. No, you won’t get as much “heating” effect as long-stemmed forage, but you will get an increase in caloric intake without so much worry about sugars/starches.

[LovieBird]

Not sure if an issue this time of year up north (I’m in LA), but what about worms? Maybe do a fecal.

[stryder]

To try to make things clearer for the barn staff, I recently added ID tags to all my blankets. Each has his name and blanket weight. I have Horse/220, Horse/80 and Horse/0 for heavier, lightweight and sheet.

I don’t think you have enough info without knowing how much the flakes weigh, or what his total hay weighs per day. Volume is the easiest place to start before you even start looking at quality or underlying health issues.

[candyappy]

@Feldspar21

He is losing muscle mass but he is also losing a lot of fat. He is sunken in past his last ribs, the caudal portion of his ribs would definitely be visible if he were not fuzzy (very clearly felt), entirely sunk in around his withers, no crest to speak of, tailhead clearly present

@Feldspar21

Also, I’m probably exaggerating about the weight thing. I was trying to get the point across that it is indeed weight loss as a whole, not exclusively diminishing muscle mass that I’m seeing, which was a question raised by someone. While all the things I said are true (and obviously I should not be seeing any of that), all those factors are not extremely obvious, and I think I am only able to tell how much the weight loss is because I see him and have my hands on him so much. I think if a random person saw him naked in a field, especially with all the fluff, they probably wouldn’t look twice.

What you describe would have me alarmed. Horses can lose a massive amount of weight in cold weather, very quickly. As you wait for the vet in a week or 2 your horse will continue to lose weight unless you get active and get hay in front of him.

Does he have 24/7 access to drinkable water?

[Posting_Trot]

You might also have him checked for tick-borne diseases, particularly Lyme disease.

It’s entirely possible that he’s not getting what he should be getting. Have you pointed out to the BO the issue of his weight loss? Does he/she have anything to say on the subject?

It’s a good idea to barn-shop, but you might not be able to move right away, so you could think about having this conversation anyway.

[Scribbler]

Also OP have you looked at the other horses? If they look poorly there is your answer.

[enjoytheride]

What do the other horses look like? Unless they’re grossly lying about his feed that should be plenty of feed for a Morgan cross. I wouldn’t have issues feeding him more grain, as long as it’s the right kind of grain, but I feel like there’s something else going on. I’d have his teeth checked and some bloodwork done.

As far as your blanket chart, A barn with a kid who feeds him doritos isn’t going to put up with 6 rotating blankets and a temp chart. You’ll need to move him or pay a lot for that. But really, he shouldn’t need that many blankets.

[atr]

I would certainly get the vet to run an eye over him, and have his teeth checked.

In the meantime, if you want to try to make it work at this barn, if I were you, I’d start making up grain baggies for him, supplement what you are feeding now with a fat source (rice bran, purina amplify, something like that in pellet form that’s easy to handle) and alfalfa pellets. Write the day of the week on each baggie, then you know they’ve been fed, and the barn staff know you know…

Forget the blanketing chart. Put him in a nice well-fitting medium-weight breathable blanket (I think it’s Rambo that make a variable fill one that it appears very hard for a horse to overheat in.) and have another sheet or blanket that can just be thrown over the top if it gets below a certain temperature, or just for overnight if the barn doors are left open.

Keep it as simple as possible.

[ejm]

Have you tried a weight tape? They are inexpensive and checking his weight once a week should give you a better idea exactly how much he is losing.

[scislandsprite]

Yes Horseware Ireland’s Rambo + Rhino lines both have Vari-Layer blankets! My Morgan currently rotates between two blankets, the heavier one being a Vari-Layer which is a life saver.

I definitely second the idea of meal prepping grain, you can also use tupperware as well and bring over a week’s supply! Then all the barn has to do is dump the container during meal times. You could also add in ejm’s idea of the weight and check him when bringing over the week’s supply of food!

Also feel free to PM me for barn suggestions if you’d like!