[QUOTE=csaper58;9002712]
I could make a very good case that your contract results in Usury were I live.[/QUOTE]
Please let me know what jurisdiction that is?!
I’m not in the business of feeding other people’s horses out of the goodness of my heart. I have personal rescues to fulfill my need to do good.
I paid the feed store on Christmas Eve. They didn’t extend me credit because of the holidays. I paid my hay guy on New Year’s Eve. He expect timely payment.
The owner signed the contract, which states the terms of when I expect payment, and the ramifications of not paying on that schedule.
Call me a scrooge. I guess you won’t be one to come in my barn.
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And I will add… I’m not out $0. My stall is not filled yet. And I am out time at work, and personal time, for having to chase these owners for money.
And who ARE YOU to say I have NEVER HAD A MEDICAL CRISIS. I think you should just step away from the keyboard. You don’t know me. You don’t know my situation. My bills have always been paid timely, regardless of what crisis I’ve gone through. And yes, that includes a medical crisis. So just shut up.
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Wait, the OP is a scrooge for being a business owner that has been super conscientious about vetting her clients, offered every business courtesy in contacting the owners, but has decided to follow the rules set forth in her contract so that she doesn’t lose any more potentially money or waste more of her time? :eek: :no:
csaper, you’re way off base on this one. Entitled to your opinion, yes, but man…seriously?
This is BUSINESS. End of story. If I died or became incapacitated tomorrow, there are three people with signed agreements who would be called, in a specific order, to deal with my animals. They know what to do, and where the money is coming from. If you don’t set up that protection for yourself, the BO does not become the bad guy when they are trying to hunt you down for non-payment after you fell off the face of the planet, regardless of the reason.
Bad things happen to good people all the time. I see no issue with what the OP has laid out thusfar. She’s under no obligation to be charitable as a business owner. That’s the hard reality of it being a business. You can have compassion for someone’s situation and still need them to hold up their end of the bargain. If they cannot, all you can do is offer what you feel is a reasonable solution (ie, the OP taking custody of the horse) or terminate the contract.
[QUOTE=vxf111;9002769]
Please let me know what jurisdiction that is?![/QUOTE]
This is what might be argued in the OP’s jurisdiction.
https://vacode.org/2016/59.1/43/1/59.1-501.11/
OP has not stated the amount of the late fee and what percent of the board it represents.
I’m curious, has anyone else ever seen an 11 page boarding contract, board due the 1st, late fees assessed on the 2nd?
[QUOTE=csaper58;9002806]
This is what might be argued in the OP’s jurisdiction.
https://vacode.org/2016/59.1/43/1/59.1-501.11/
Anyone else ever seen an 11 page boarding contract, board due the 1st, late fees assessed on the 2nd?[/QUOTE]
That’s not what YOU said. You said a contract with no grace period would be held to be usurious in YOUR jurisdiction. What jurisdiction is that?
Not that I think a court in Virginia will find a payment term to be unconscionable for lack of a grace period either. Not offering a grace period is hardly so one-sided as to be the product of duress in this type of setting where the parties have similar bargaining power.
From Hawthorne v. BJ’s Wholesale Club, 2016 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 114969 (E.D. Va. Aug. 26, 2016)…
<<Virginia has traditionally defined an unconscionable contract as one that no person in his or her “‘senses and not under delusion would make on the one hand, and [that] no honest and fair [person] would accept on the other.’” Lee v. Fairfax Cty. Sch. Board, 621 F. App’x 761, 762 (4th Cir. 2015) (per curiam) (quoting Chaplain v. Chaplain, 54 Va. App. 762, 682 S.E.2d 108, 113 (Va. App. 2009)). Unconscionability, a narrow doctrine, requires a showing of inequality “so gross as to shock the conscience.” Id. (citation omitted); accord Sydnor, 252 F.3d at 305 (applying Virginia law). Unconscionability has both a procedural and a substantive element. Lee, 621 F. App’x at 763 (citing Chaplain, 682 S.E.2d at 114). Procedural unconscionability “necessitates inequity and bad faith in ‘the accompanying incidents …, such as concealments, misrepresentations, undue advantage, oppressions on the part of the one who obtains the benefit, or ignorance, weakness of mind, sickness, old age, incapacity, pecuniary necessities, and the like.’” Id. (omission in original) (quoting Chaplain, 682 S.E.2d at 114). Substantive unconscionability “requires a ‘gross disparity in the value exchanged.’” Id. (quoting Chaplain, 682 S.E.2d at 113).>>
originally posted by csaper58
Anyone else ever seen an 11 page boarding contract, board due the 1st, late fees assessed on the 2nd?
A better question would be, “has anyone ever signed an 11-page boarding contract, board due the 1st, late fees assessed on the 2nd?” The boarder knew what the terms were. The terms were in writing. The consequences for not following those terms were spelled out.
Responsible adults don’t sign contracts which they are not prepared to comply with.
[QUOTE=vxf111;9002817]
Not offering a grace period is hardly so one-sides as to be the product of duress in this type of setting where the parties have similar bargaining power.[/QUOTE]
One party is on their back in a hospital, that generally influences ‘bargaining power’.
If any of my owners could not pay their bill on the first due to financial hardship, I would be more than willing to work out something. I know this is not the case with these owners.
csaper- I don’t know where you have gotten the information that one party is in the hospital unable to communicate. The party had issues in the past that keep her from being able to ride, but is otherwise functioning (and working) normally.
[QUOTE=csaper58;9002845]
One party is on their back in a hospital, that generally influences ‘bargaining power’.[/QUOTE]
So… to you was the old barn bad for asking them to leave for not paying?
[QUOTE=csaper58;9002845]
One party is on their back in a hospital, that generally influences ‘bargaining power’.[/QUOTE]
First of all, I’m not clear those are the facts. From the OP’s posts, it seems that the uninjured boyfriend is the one who signed the contact (although the girlfriend owns the horse) and who has been making payments. Nor do I see anywhere that either the boyfriend or girlfriend are “on their back in a hospital.”
But even if they were, that’s not what bargaining power means in this context. It means if I am the only person in the state who sells widgets and you will die without a widget, our bargaining power is unequal. There are probably hundreds of boarding barns in VA. The boyfriend/girlfriend could board the horse at any of them instead. The OP didn’t have the other party over any sort of “barrel” when the agreement was made.
Where did you go to law school again and where are you barred? This isn’t the first thread where you’ve been making up the law as you go along?!
My point is this. The owners were not forced to move their horse to my barn. No one forced them to sign my board contract. There are hundreds of other barns in Virginia able to cater to the horse’s needs and the owners’ wishes. Had they not agreed with my contract, or had my contract appeared unreasonable to them, they would not have signed, and their horse would not have been moved to my farm. BUT the contract was signed, and I have possession of the horse. Since I hold both, the terms of my contract must be followed.
Period.
[QUOTE=scrbear11;9002870]
My point is this. The owners were not forced to move their horse to my barn. No one forced them to sign my board contract. There are hundreds of other barns in Virginia able to cater to the horse’s needs and the owners’ wishes. Had they not agreed with my contract, or had my contract appeared unreasonable to them, they would not have signed, and their horse would not have been moved to my farm. BUT the contract was signed, and I have possession of the horse. Since I hold both, the terms of my contract must be followed.
Period.[/QUOTE]
Which seems very reasonable.
[QUOTE=csaper58;9002767]
The OP is out $0.00. Her stall is filled.
Let those most fortunate folks who have never had a medical crisis, at the most inopportune time carry on throwing stones at those who have.
Every a pancake has two sides,
This smells more like a cow patty with every up date.[/QUOTE]
The OP loses more money if her stall is filled with a non-paying boarder than if it’s empty.
Whether or not this boarder has a medical crisis is irrelevant. There is a bill that needs to be paid. I have had medical issues, been off my feet for months, and still paid my board. On time.
Board is no different than a utility bill. This utility (scrbear11) has a payment policy different than VA Dominion Power, but the horse owner agreed to it, in writing. Dominion Power expects to be paid whether you are hurt or not as well.
Most of the times that my fellow boarders had “medical issues” that prevented them from paying board, that issue turned out to be dishonesty.
Question: Who is the legally responsible party? The one who signed the contract (the boyfriend) or the one who owns the horse but didn’t sign? I’m curious as to who is legally obligated to pay the board.
Why is it expected that a barn has a payment grace period???
you are paying for something. Just like paying a credit card, buying something at the store. Paying bills on time is just a part of being responsible.
To me, all a grace period does is allow people to be forgetful/lazy.
If an issue comes up like a medical crisis, then I would assume that most BO’s would be sympathetic and work something out, if given communication about it.
[QUOTE=peedin;9002882]
Question: Who is the legally responsible party? The one who signed the contract (the boyfriend) or the one who owns the horse but didn’t sign? I’m curious as to who is legally obligated to pay the board.[/QUOTE]
The person who signed the contract.
[QUOTE=csaper58;9002767]
The OP is out $0.00. Her stall is filled.
Let those most fortunate folks who have never had a medical crisis, at the most inopportune time carry on throwing stones at those who have.
Every a pancake has two sides,
This smells more like a cow patty with every up date.[/QUOTE]
It would have taken no time at all for one of the 3 PEOPLE who belong to this horse to let OP know there was a medical crisis ( which I really doubt there was).
