Honestly, the more you explain, the more this horse sounds like a bad fit for your barn and your style of horse keeping. Can he go somewhere else?
18 Likes
I donāt like to kick people out. Iāll try to work out whats going on with the horse, see if we can make changes. If it got to the point where he was keeping me awake multiple times a week then I would ask them to find some place with barn not next to a house so he couldnāt keep someone awake during the night.
I also asked her if heās been scoped for ulcersā¦ and he has. And he came back totally fine. So ulcers is not the issue. I think its more of a studish behavior problem heās having. I wonder if a mare in my barn is possibly in heat? There is one that he can see from his stall. But when I turn him out next to my mare and gelding (not turned out with them but they share the same water) heās totally fine out there. She doesnāt come up to him or try to flirt with him. So wondering because this came on so sudden if the horse in the barn is in heat and he smells her and is getting upset and frustrated? Iāll see if his attitude changes when she possibly gets sold on Thursdayā¦
I touched his belly and sides today while he was tied in his stall, and even pressing on him sets him off! He pins his ears at you and is very vocal! I canāt believe how sensitive he is and how grumpy he gets just by touching him!
Soā¦ any ideas to stop the pawing if it does occur again? Someone said to hang jingle bells in the stall on the walls that he paws on, see if that might scare him to make him stop. That might be worth a tryā¦
Just because he scoped clear for ulcers once doesnāt mean he is immune to ulcers forever.
Before trying random things just give the poor guy more hay or the same amount in a slow feeder.
It may be in everyoneās best interest if you kindly ask your boarder to start looking for a barn that better caters to this horses needs. Clearly you are more concerned with your sleep than this animals welfare.
23 Likes
In addition to pursuing the inquiries and remedies mentioned, may I also suggest you put stall mats on his stall walls? It will protect the horse, protect the walls, and help you get more sleep. Just hang them high enough that they absorb his pawing/kicking.
Yes, I know this for a fact. 
10 Likes
How am I concerned with my sleep more than the animals welfare? The horse IS catered to! He roughly 35-40# of hay a day. Thats more than the recommended amount for his size. Heās not skinny. He gets a ton of turnout time. Hes blanketed when needed, bell boots when he goes out. The horse is spoiled! Iām not a large boarding facility, so a do cater to the horses needs.
Iām looking for IDEAS with pawing. The horse was just scoped before he came to me. He doesnāt have ulcers.
Hung mats by his feeder already. May have to try the entire stall.
I tried to stress to the owner that he could easily get bone chips or broken legs from how hard heās been pawing. Thats what Iām worried about the most.
And yet your proposed solution is to HOBBLE him? Unsupervised? For long stretches of time? Yeah, absolutely nothing can go catastrophically wrong THERE.
This horse is without hay from 7 am - 7 pm while in turnout. You want him done with his hay by 10 pm. And on the weekends he gets an additional couple hours in the morning with no hay, while waiting for breakfast. He has SO little time to actually eat. And youāre surprised that heās upset? 
:no:
Poor guy. Just keep hay in front of him. Itās really not that hard. Itās kind of a tenet of horse keeping. Theyāre grazing animals, designed to eat for the bulk of the day.
Yeah, it sure does sound like he has ulcersālikely from your management style. Doesnāt matter that he didnāt beforeā¦unless he was scoped yesterday?
34 Likes
How is that giving him little time to eat?? Heās turned outside at 7am with his morning feeding. He has as long as he wants to eat. Again heās fed at 7pm inside his stall with his hay. I figured by 10pm on average heās done eating. I donāt take ghrbhay out of his stallā¦ not sure where you came up with that. Thatās not bad management. On top of this he gets roughly 2 flAkes during the day after his owner works him.
1 Like
I think this is a bit unfair. OP says this is a relatively new behavior, and has taken the time to post here for ideas. I agree that a slow feeder with plenty of hay is a good start. So is a vet check.
However, beyond the nighttime noise, I would not be keen to deal with an ill-mannered late-gelded studdish horse. Is the owner willing to put in the time to install some proper ground manners on him? And/or, be ok if the OP does? If not, then I would ask the boarder to move.
2 Likes
It doesnāt matter if the horse is getting more hay for his size or not. Exercise is also a big influence on the amount of hay and calories.
The bottom line is if the horse is out of hay by 10pm then he isnāt getting enough hay
. A hay belly is not caused by too much hay, it is caused by hay hay lacks quality hence it stays in the intestines longer tp absorb the most amount of nutrients, bench the" hay belly"
most of the people here are telling you hay if a horse goes more than 2 hours without eating it can develop ulcers, emotional upset from hunger,etc.
if he is eating the hay the owner puts in by AM feeding he is not getting too much hay.
18 Likes
Maybe? But the very first line of the original post stresses the horse kept her up TWO nights and she continues to ask for oddball ways to stop the horse from pawing rather than consider that the underlying issue may be her style of horse management.
Would I want this critter in my barn as described? Nope. But I would certainly put forage in front of him all the time and suggest the owner scope or do a round of GG before I considered putting jingle bells up in its stall if he were under my care.
Edited to add: I have a stall walker and a weaver so I get how obnoxious sterotypies are and do appreciate she is concerned about physical damage the horse may do to itself; however, a focus on preventing the behavior rather than resolving the underlying cause does this horse a disservice, especially considering the additional symptoms of discomfort described. My guys are at home which gives me the leeway to tailor their management and as a result neither routinely display their stall vice of choice but if they do, which happened with one this fall, I focused on figuring out what was causing anxiety rather than trying to stop the behavior.
8 Likes
Do you have round bales out in the pasture? How much grazing is there?
Most places are pretty bare right now. It sounds like thereās a chance heās outside for 12 hours but may only be eating a few flakes of hay during that whole time. He then comes in and gets his evening hay which is gone by 10 pm. So he has nothing in front of him until 7 am the next morning, later on the weekends.
If you donāt want to feed more hay, a slow feeder to prolong the hay sounds like an incredibly simple solution.
Unless you are weighing the hay Iām surprised that the amount of hay described is coming out to 35-40 lbs a day. Even so, 16.3 isnāt a small horse and if there isnāt any pasture thatās the only forage heās getting.
11 Likes
OP, why do you not want to put the hay net in the stall? (obviously make sure he canāt get a foot into it).
I too have found they help.
He could have a hind gut ulcer which would not show in a scope. That possibility and the pretense of a hay belly, would make me wonder if Pre/probiotics might help this horse, although given that he paws after eating, I wouldnāt expect that to be the time a horse with ulcers would be uncomfortable.
What about trying a radio in the barn? What about some sort of stall toy such as one of those balls that dispenses pellets, or a jolly ball or jug?
Horses can develop barn issues from stress that is created when ridden/handled. A rider/handler that doesnāt have a good grasp of learning theory can cause a horse that is stressed in the barn or in turn out. Is the owner the type of rider that uses a strong contact or pulls and pushes simultaneously?
8 Likes
If I were the owner, deliberately giving the horse more hay, then found out BO/BM is taking away half of that hay, I would be LIVID! If it is a cost thing, then ask her to pay for the extra hay. If it is just a matter of OPās (mistaken) notion that it is ātoo much hayā, then OP, just allow him to eat what the owner thinks he needs, and ALLOW A HAY NET!
26 Likes
In this post 6, that I quoted in reply, you said that owenr provides 5 or 6 flakes for the night. You said you take some out so that he āONLY HAS 3 FLAKESā. There is the cause of the problem, or at least one of the causes.
When the horse is turned out, is there a round bale for him to munch on? If this horse is in the Northern Hemisphere, just coming out of Winter, there is probably not much grazable forage. If he is not eating all day, then heck yeah, this horse needs his overnight hay, ALL OF IT.
8 Likes
You said:
And:
So when does this horse actually have hay in front of him? 7 pm (sometimes later) to 10 pm, when he gets to eat the three flakes you leave him, after taking hay out of his stall?
An empty stomach is a recipe for ulcers. It sounds like thatās just how you run your barn. And you even go so far as to DELAY feeding further when they have empty stomachs and are upset about it, which is just going to compound the issue.
Do you understand how the gut of the horse works??
This problem has a pretty easy solution, and it sure doesnāt involve hobbling the horse: keep hay in front of him. At all times. Not only will that allow you to sleep, but it will probably make feeding time a total non event. This horse might need to be treated for ulcers before he settles, but once he feels better and knows heās not going to always be looking for his next meal, life should be a lot quieter.
Or since it sounds like youāre really opposed to that sort of management: tell the owner the horse isnāt a good fit for your place.
17 Likes
One of the reasons I adore having the horses at home is they have access to hay at all times.
I think you will soon be sleeping, as owner will be moving her horse in the very near future. Why? You tie a hungry horse to teach them patience? Owner gives hay and you remove it. Owner asks you to provide hay net to assess impact of hay access on behaviour, and your go to for the issue is kick chains and hobbles? I see a trailer pulling in your driveway very soon.
22 Likes
Hindgut ulcers cannot be diagnosed with a scopeā¦hence why many people treat without bothering to scope.
This behavior SCREAMS ulcers.
20 Likes
YEP!
5 Likes
OP, I think I understand your feeding regimen, Iām not sure that some of the other posters do tho. Your barn sounds a bit like the one Iām at in feeding and pasture times.
I think something is going on with this guy and the owner should have him checked. Just because the actual food hasnāt changed his system might have, so he might need an adjustment to his feedings. Iāve had 2 older geldings get āweirdā when spring grass starts coming in. They act a bit antsy and both will be touchy on their sides and bellies. By May they have leveled out.
Why are you resistant to the hay feeder? If it were me Iād line his stall with old carpet and hang a bag feeder. If that didnāt work and she wonāt get a vet check (or the check doesnāt find anything) Iād give her 2 choices, he goes outside or she needs to move him.
1 Like
