And on the weekends, it’s an additional hour or two before breakfast, and if he makes any noise when she comes into feed he stands tied for an ADDITIONAL period of time before being fed 
:no:
So maybe up to 12 hours with no hay on those weekends? Poor guy. No wonder he’s so upset.
The horse is turned out at 7am with hay. So he has until 10-11am with hay in his pen. His owner may come out lets say at noon on her lunch hour, he gets another 2 flakes after she rides around 2pm. He’s then fed again at 7pm. He has hay most of the day, except at night. None of my horses have hay after they finish their nightly feedings. Obviously I’m in bed until morning feeding at 7am.
So yes we will try a slow feeding hay net so his hay lasts longer during the night.
I never said he was tied in the morning. He’s tied in the evening when I go do stalls and ride when he acts up and paws. I don’t feed on a schedule, they get fed when I’m done in the barn. Lots of boarders come out and ride in the evening, I don’t feed while they are all out there riding, it upsets the entire barn. I usually wait until they are done after 7pm. That horse should know to stand and behave, rather than acting like a idiot and pawing. I also don’t “reward” him and give him hay when he acts like that, thus thats why he can be tied and be patient. For example… if he ate at 2pm from his owner feeding him, and I get out to the barn at 5pm and he’s pawing for his dinner, but I have 3 boarders out there riding he should learn he has to wait.
obviously, you have to sleep. I think the 10PM-7 am thing is normal in most barns – but I think you should think long and hard about how the long periods of time with no food can really upset a horse’s gastric process. I would, if I were you, do some reading on equine ulcers, and how quickly and easily they can be caused – and how expensive, time-consuming, and nigh-impossible they are to resolve.
I also think you should maybe dial back on the punitive management of other people’s horses - it’s all fine and well to insist on proper table-etiquette for your own horses, but don’t do it to other people’s. It’s not your place. I have never, ever, been able to prevent a boarder horse’s bad behavior by with-holding their food. I had one boarder horse that was SO bad about grain-time - he would full-body slam the stall partition, harass his neighbors, kick and squeal until the bucket was in his stall. He was awful and we did try, briefly, with-holding his feed until he settled down. It made him even worse. I ended up deciding that for HIM, he was fed grain outside and then brought in. Did I want to smack him for his abhorrent behavior? Absolutely, but it is not my horse – he would get everyone in the aisle riled up very quickly – but the thing is, I like to think I’m smarter than him, so I worked for ways to get him to comply without him knowing. Feeding him outside while the others ate inside 100% solved the issue. (BTW, we did briefly try having his grain ready for him when he came in, but that lead to him dragging some of the girls to the stall.)
My point being, there are ways to prevent bad or unwanted behavior without resorting to punishment. Think about it - if you have to punish the horse, you waited too long to correct/prevent the behavior. It all boils down to intelligent management, and setting the horse up to succeed in a way that whatever your routine is, it prevents the horse from lashing out with unwanted behavior. For a horse that is pawing, or acting up, it could be as simple as feeding him in a haynet so he isn’t standing around idle for hours at a time. For preventing a horse from acting up because other horses are being fed - maybe feed him first. As for the whole “not feeding until other horses are done riding” - while I appreciate the effort to preserve a good rider, let me tell you, that type of practice will make a horse sour QUICK. My barn feeds regardless if you are out riding - if you are riding, a bucket is left by your grooming box for you to take care of the horse yourself. IME this makes a calm, happy horse because he is not thinking “omg grain noise!! time to eat!” - he knows his work must be done before he eats.
The thing is, ulcers almost always comes down to management. Sometimes it is out of our control as BOs, where owners don’t want their horses out, or don’t want to change their grains from a high-starch/sugar to a low NSC/palatable feed – and sometimes, it IS because of our management: too long between feedings, too much time in a stall, too much showing or traveling…
Unfortunately, the way modern horses are kept is against every grain and fiber of a horse’s natural needs and developments. It is unfortunately part and parcel of horse-keeping, but it doesn’t mean we can’t try to compromise to keep the horse as healthy and as happy as he can be. I try to subjugate my horse’s stresses by keeping him out 23/7, on a roundbale 24/7, and I keep a sharp eye on him for any signs of ulcers – would I prefer to keep him in a stall half the day, nicely bedded and clean? Of course – but it’s not what he needs to be happy and healthy.
Riding a horse on an empty belly will increase the incidence of ulcers, and increase pain from them, as acid sloshes around. Since this horse is exhibiting classic ulcer presentation and has been managed to create them, allowing him to have hay available 24/7 will probably go a looooong way to improving his general well being.
Although interesting that you just assume he’s being an ass when he’s pawing in cross ties prior to being ridden instead of looking deeper to see what might be bothering him. Fair chance he’s just anticipating pain.
One way of preventing the acid slosh when it’s not possible to have hay in front of the horse directly prior to the ride is to offer a small bucket of alfalfa cubes or pellets for the horse to eat while tacking up. Alfalfa has the bonus of buffering the stomach, but if the horse is sensitive to it, grass hay cubes also work. Perhaps you can suggest to the owner.
How’s that working for you?
I am not against the random feeding time theory to horse keeping. But then, mine typical have a round bale in front of them all day so it does not really matter to them when they come in at night for their tiny meal.
I am also not against a little bit of tying when a horse is acting stupid. Though in this case it sounds like this horse has more issues than can easily be fixed by something as simple as a small hole hay net.
I think the OP has some ideas on how to deal with this situation.
OP, good luck. Please come back and let us know how the net works out.
I do think the owner needs to either treat for ulcers or scope again, because it is likely that this particular horse has ulcers. Some horses are just more sensitive than others.
It works great when he’s tied, hes quiet and stops pawing.
what works for some, many or even most horses is not an excuse one should whip out when it is clearly not working for one.
And to speak of a horse who may have a physical ailment that is painful [have you ever had an ulcer? I have… and ouch!] this way:
‘That horse should know to stand and behave, rather than acting like a idiot and pawing. I also don’t “reward” him and give him hay when he acts like that, thus thats why he can be tied and be patient.’
:no:
I live by the idea that ‘it’s never the horses fault’.
And to consider feeding a horse who may have ulcers a ‘reward’ is just… :no:
Read through this quickly, so apologies if someone already mentioned that the quality of the hay fed has a lot to do with how much the horse needs (obviously). For example, you may have to feed a lot more grass hay to give some horses the calories/nutrition they need, even if the grass hay seems to be “good quality.” Having your hay analyzed can help determine its quality. I have an older TB mare (not ridden) that just doesn’t gain weight on grass hay, no matter how much I feed. Add some alfalfa and/or decent pasture and she starts smoothing out her angles, though she’s never been what I’d call fat.
Also agree with weighing the hay–you might be surprised at what those “50 pound” bales actually weigh.
Definitely agree with modifying the feeding plan rather than using hobbles or tying.
I see you chopped the part of my post off where I say that I think this horse does have ulcers and should either be treated for them or rescoped.
I was talking in general terms. I am fine if a barn wants to feed at the exact time every day, period. But that is not the one and only way to do things and some people find their herd far more relaxed if feeding does not happen like clockwork. That is the only point I was trying to make on that.
And I will say it again, this horse probably does have ulcers, it sounds like a typical presentation. But generally speaking not every horse who acts like a brat should be tossed hay. Time out is not evil. Some horses are just impatient and need to be taught to be a little more patient. Again, this horse should be scoped or treated for ulcers, it sounds like it has ulcers.
I think the OP learned a few new ideas here, which is a good thing. We can all learn new stuff.
I merely lopped off what I was not speaking to, because I agreed.
If the horse was treated [because scoping does not reveal hindgut ulcers] and he was still being a ‘brat’ I would agree with the rest of your post. Then again those behaviors may be learned at this point… he may not become a horse who never paws because he’s had to express his distress so long that it may be a hard behavior to extinguish at this point.
The horse is too unpredictable to have his stall grate open. He has bars for a reason so I can’t hang it on the outside.
Just curious 
— in what ways is he unpredictable? And…while in his stall can he see other horses in the barn? Across the aisle?
I would guess the OP is referring to what they said in post #6:
You said he’s out until seven. You said his owner puts 6 flakes in his stall before she leaves in the afternoon, and you remove half of it. If he’s not brought in until 7, and has hay in his stall when he comes in, when on earth does he have time to paw? You bring them in and THEN clean stalls? 
None of this makes any sense.
And it’s just sad that you jump to “the horse is being an idiot” instead of considering and ruling out that he’s trying to tell you something hurts. Poor guy
Bites, kicks you while blanketing, or even if you just walk past him in the cross ties he will kick. He will lunge out at people walking past him (thats why his gate is never left open)
Hes only inside his stall if its raining that day. So thats when hes tied. And hes brought in around 7pm if they have been outside.
And yes he has 2 horses he can see and thats it. A gelding and one mare. The mare is pretty far away from him, but thats why I was wondering maybe this is happening because he smells her and was a stud for so long. Maybe shes in heat?
Random thoughts…
Actually weigh the hay, you can get a fishermans scale pretty cheap anywhere they sell fishing gear. Bale size is determined by the machine baling it, not weight. 50lb bale can weight between 40 and 60 pounds, split that into 8-10 flakes and 3 flakes could be way short or wasting money over. Bad way to evaluate feed quantity.
IME, “hay belly” doesn’t mean “fat”. Can mean quite the opposite.
What else do you feed or are any concentrates ( grain, ration balancer, etc.) up to the owner? He could be short on protein for his work level and actually malnourished and that can easily occur in those apparently at good weight-or even obese.
ANY gelding can react to a mare in full spring heat, so can other mares…,they get the whole barn stirred up.
Id review this horses’ total diet with the owner based on the weight of the food and his actual, nutritional needs based on work level.
And hang the dam feed net.
If he’s on the spoiled side, it won’t solve everything but you’ll sleep better.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
