Put rubber mats on the stall walls.
And give him more hay.
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Horse is a big fellow at 16.3
Work load has increased
You are taking 3 flakes of hay away from what his owner is feeding at night.
I would do 2 things. Give him the 6 flakes his owner is feeding and if possible give him a stall with attached paddock.
Even if he is eating until midnight , that is a long time to stand in a stall with nothing to occupy a horse. Some can do it and some canât.
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Pretty much this - and what everyone else has said. Just because the rule of thumb is 1-2% of body weight in hay/forage doesnât mean that every horse needs that exact amount. My TB mare can eat a lot more than 2% of her weight in hay without gaining weight and sheâs retired.
Iâd like to see pictures of the horse to evaluate its weight. Hay belly is often found in horses that are undermuscled elsewhere; so hay belly doesnât not mean overweight.
Iâd put a few extra flakes of hay in a nibble net at night and probably treat for ulcers. Any change in environment can trigger ulcers, and a horse that is pawing at night sounds anxious enough to have them by now.
If overnight turnout is an option, Iâd probably do that as well. Iâd take thrush over ulcers any day.
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OP, modern feeding dictates more hay, less grain. It mimics natural grazing behavior. The question isnât how much you feed during the day. For a horse to go without forage between 10PM to morning feed is way too long. My horses will paw if they are to go without hay or grass for so long too. Just for an example, my horse will eat 1 bale of hay a day, and he is a 14.3 hand⊠When we go to shows or clinics, I stuff his hay bag at 10PM. I want to see little bit of hay left when I show up in the morning. This keeps them happy and content.
By the way, I will be pissed if BO takes hay away from my horse, which I have given. If you think Iâm overstepping the boundary and feeding more than my board, you need to tell me, and I will be happy to pay more to make up the difference. Just donât take hay away from my horse. Or better, make it so I wonât feel the need to throw in more hay. That is kind of bothersome.
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She lost me at âI give him some tie timeâ.
I would be stabby.
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Bewolf has it right! Clearly you dislike this horse and are not wishing to invest the time to manage behaviours in a constructive manner. That is ok, you are not required to like all horses. You are not required to deal with this horse and his behaviours. You are required to be kind, respectful and professional.
When I read your posts the impression I am left with is: the line between discipline vs. punishment appears blurred. (I created this impression from your mentions of tying in stall, delaying of food, and initial intervention is to consider kick chains or hobbles). Remember, horses understand discipline, they learn nothing from punishment. Punishment, although it may in some way make you feel better, teaches the horse nothing. Punishment may eventually result in a dull hopeless attitude, do not mistake this for learning.
Your management style may work for some horses, clearly, not this one. For many horses, the environment is one that will almost assure ulcers develop, and behaviours escalate. For the good of the horse, (for many reasons) please invite the owner to relocate their horse.
Think about this: if you were the owner, and you read this thread, how long would it take you to move out, and start fueling the local gossips? As a horse owner, I would respect an individual who told me my animal was not a good fit for their program, due to ________________ and suggest that relocation was in the best interest of my horse. A parting on good terms is the desired outcome.
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I just canât get over how many boarders seem to think that they should be allowed to feed their horse whatever they want and that they would âgo offâ if the barn owner removed extra hay.
Barns are budgeted to feed a certain amount of hay per horse. Many barns allow extra hay to be fed for an extra charge. I have never seen a single barn that would let the boarders willy nilly feed as much hay as they want and Iâve seen probably a hundred threads on this BB talking about it.
Boarder is stealing hay and has apparently not actually asked if horse needs it, or if heâs just pooping on it. Yet the boarder should be livid? It isnât uncommon for a boarder to not know what their horse needs to be fed. Itâs why people board.
Barn owner seems to be doing the right thing by asking for a slow feed net.
Also, how many people on this BB would not allow their horse to be turned out with another with hind shoes? How is that the barn ownerâs problem now?
As far as tying, I have no issue with my horse being tied provided it has been discussed as a possibility beforehand.
People are being ridiculous!
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@EnjoyThe Ride what you are describing would be wrong.
That doesnât seem to be the situation as described by OP.
Perhaps it is, but thatâs not what anyone here is talking about, including the OP. Perhaps she would like to expound on whether or not she considers it theft or the horse destroys the hay.
But if you read, that isnât what has been described. Again, not saying that isnât what is happening, but it isnât what we have been told.
And I think itâs great that you have no issue with your barn owner acting as trainer and âdiscipliningâ your horse for âimpatienceâ and pawing.
I spoke only for myself when I said it would make me stabby. And by that I mean if any barn owner did that, I would have to move my horse and bad mouth them extensively.
I know a barn manager who decided to âtrainâ a boarderâs horse by tying it. And it resulted in the horse having to be put down and charges were brought against the barn manager who was of course fired, and ended up with an animal cruelty conviction.
As someone who has been a barn manager and a groom and a trainer, I strongly encourage anyone not being expressly paid for training services not to take it upon themselves to âdisciplineâ or âtrainâ anyone elseâs horses, even those in their care and custody. If you cannot manage a horse as is, ask the owner to leave.
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[QUOTE=enjoytheride;n9703744
Barn owner seems to be doing the right thing by asking for a slow feed net.
People are being ridiculous![/QUOTE]
The Horse Owner wants the slow feed net. The Barn Owner doesnât want it.
Just seems like a bad fit all the way around, and the horse is stuck in the middle of it.
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I think youâre misreading the thread. Barn owner DIDNât want a hay net. BO wanted to hobble first. Boarder wanted the hay net.
BO is ok with boarder adding hay. BO is tying horse for âpawingâ or âmisbehavingâ.
I have a big issue, as a boarder, horse owner, and BM, with ANY staff member deciding they can just punish a horse willy-nilly. IMHO gross overstepping of bounds and not your place as a barn owner, manager, or worker.
Many barns I have worked at or boarded at have been okay with boarders giving the horse extra hay if the horse is out of hay. Since the bO set the precedent that the boarder is ok to give hay (lunch after ride, etc) I donât think the boarder is in the wrong here.
P.S I would absolutely lose my sh** if I found out a worker, BM, or BO was tying my horse up to âteach him a lessonâ, or disciplining my horse because he was pawing or agitated before food/ because he was hungry. ESPECIALLY when they are hungry and impatient, good way to kill a horse, tying it unsupervised. Unless you are standing there next to the horse the entire time, that is unsupervised.
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This boarder should be encouraged to find a barn that is a better fit ~
- this situation will only become more uncomfortable for all involved ~
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Iâve walked shed rows with hay nets like that at AP. Also learned quickly not to walk to close to the horses as you never knew when one was going to lunge out at you. It could be theyâre ornery because of pain or maybe ornery just because. Some horses are just that way.
It sounds to me like the OP has a pretty good handle on her routine, and while I or others may agree or disagreeâŠitâs her barn, her rules. As far as the hay net goes, it doesnât sound like sheâs close minded to it. That may or may not keep the horse from stall kicking. No one will know until the netâs in the stall.
If the hay net doesnât fix the problem, I know horse owners that swear by this systemâŠ
This ! Needs hay late at night or deal with colic down the road
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Sensitivity to external touch can be caused by Lyme disease. Aching all over, including joints, back, etc can be caused by a Magnesium deficiency. The Magnesium deficiency can cause the horse to ache all over and become very cranky. This went on with our horse last fall. He ached all over. I had the lameness vet come in to give the horse a full physical and a lameness evaluation. In addition to the physical he did hoof testing, flexion testing, nerve blocking, back testing, etc. and found that everything all over his body ached for this horse. The lameness evaluation came up negative. After testing for Lyme, Cushings, and sugar levels (the Lyme and Cushings came back negative, and the sugar levels came back perfect) our vet had our farrier add padding to the shoes to give the horse some cushioning under his feet, and put our horse on an inexpensive Magnesium supplement called Remission, available for $20/4 pounds at both Tractor Supply and through Chewy dot com. Within a week the horse was feeling and moving much better and became substantially quieter both in the stall, on a line, and out in the pasture. We have kept the padding in the shoeing and Remission it is now part of his daily diet. He is a far happier boy. We test yearly for Lyme and the horseâs Lyme titers have been low and steadily declining for the past four years in a row. It might be worth it for your boarder to check into these things to help her horse.
In most horses, the drive to graze means that, given the freedom to do so, they will spend 16 hours a day grazing. A friend of mine uses two hay nets to keep her horse in hay for the night. One is a slow feed hay net, the other is a net with slightly larger holes.The net with the larger holes allows him to get larger mouthfuls when he first comes in at 4 pm so he isnât frustrated. The slow feed net keeps the hay in the stall through the night. Without the hay nets he goes through the same amount of allotted hay in 3 hours flat. I am not a fan of hay nets either, but in the case of this type, when hung from the top stall wall board, it works.
This horseâs needs may be different than the program you are set up to provide. Allowing your boarder to find a better fit isnât kicking anyone out. Itâs simply allowing someone to move on to something that works better both for them while you continue running the program that works best for your barn. Thatâs it. Once you take the drama out of the equation, the correct answer, whatever it is, will appear to both you and your boarder. Good luck.
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This is the problem. Horse owner doesnât want the horse hobbled overnight as a first effort to curb the behavior? No kidding! Who would?
Most of the posters have suggested that the pawing is likely because the horse is without hay for 6+ hours. Seems like a no-brainer to do what the owner suggests (hay net), not resort to punitive methods before ruling out other issues. Then comes here looking for âsuggestionsâ but really looking to have her position being backed up by COTHers.
Thatâs not âdoing the right thingâ in my books.
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Is OP a troll?
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Unfortunately, probably not. Iâve seen plenty of BOs like her.
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Haynet and a hanging/fishermans scale to insure correct lbs of hay for this horse. If youâre feeding a arbitrary â3 flakesâ to every horse, Iâm willing to bet heâs not getting enough lbs of hay to keep his gut happy.
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I read everything but not too carefully and I need some clarification:
- Does the HO know that BO ties the horse when it paws? This would be important to me as a HO. I could understand being told âI tied horse in stall because he was kicking the walls hard and I couldnât stand it and was also afraid he would hurt himselfâ I might be okay with this in the short term while the BO distributed feed - not so much if the horse was out of sight while BO rode or if horse fought tying.
- Did HO have reason to believe it was okay to give her horse more hay at night? Do other boarders give their horses hay? Is this a matter of you just believing she overdoes it? Has she been told not to give that much hay or that hay was removed?
- Has the horse ever gotten the extra hay? If so, did he eat it and not paw overnight?
As a HO, I would expect the BO to handle my horse to mitigate problems, but not to attempt any âtrainingâ we hadnât agreed upon. It sounds like a stock horse background towards management that is not working for this horse. (Not a fan of some of the practices for any horse, but it can fail more spectacularly with horses of different types) It also sounds like more communication is needed between BO and HO for agreement on veterinary care, feeding, âdisciplineâ and management of this horse with issues.
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IIRC OP noted Owner gives horses hay after riding at noon-ish/lunch hour⊠so maybe that is where owner thought it was ok to do⊠or maybe it was ok to do?
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