Body lameness

[Libby2563]

@erinmeri, I know this thread is old but I get where you were coming from! I listened to a few episodes recently while commuting but had to stop because a) I was starting to despair that any horse is sound and any vets know what they’re doing (I already have some personal experiences in that direction lol) and b) I couldn’t stand the hubris anymore. She can’t possibly know more than every other vet everywhere about every topic she discusses, but she acts like she does—even when she starts an episode by saying she has just over the past few days read all the existing research.

I do think the idea of looking beyond limb lameness is useful though. I feel like veterinary medicine is barely starting to scratch the surface there.

[Texarkana]

@Libby2563

b) I couldn’t stand the hubris anymore. She can’t possibly know more than every other vet everywhere about every topic she discusses, but she acts like she does—even when she starts an episode by saying she has just over the past few days read all the existing research.

Contributing to the zombie thread…

Last time she was discussed I listened to a few episodes and this was my reaction, too.

I wanted to like her because I agree with some of her overall message. But I found the podcast to be self-aggrandizing without actually saying anything helpful.

I never did find the episodes where she allegedly quotes this forum.

[AmmyHour926]

Same! That’s what made me circle back on this thread, I had recently listened to a few episodes and why I like the idea of looking at the whole horse and incorporating more of a sports medicine/ PT approach to sport horses like we do with human athletes. However, if an human MD made a podcast like hers and made some of the same claims she would be laughed out of the room at best and likely sued for malpractice at worst. It’s just so unethical to go around saying (with out evaluating your horse in person) that if you horse does X I guarantee it has a problem with Y and likely your vet doesn’t understand the issue and can’t diagnosis or treat it. She’s also pretty open about doing “treatments” without research other than anecdotal evidence to back it up. How is that helpful? I’d have a lot more respect if she actually explained her treatments instead of leaving it intentionally wizardly vague.

Oh I forgot to add she’s the only vet that understands biomechanics too. God bless her for her tireless work please help all the peasants out here that have our own teams of sports med vets that aren’t her.

[erinmeri]

You’ve all voiced what I was feeling better than I could.

I think what made me so frustrated so as to post in the first place is that I have had two FEI/USEF team vets from separate practices evaluate my horse prior to listening to the podcast and she still sent me down a rabbit hole/spiral.

If she is so speshul, then why not share her work? I would love to see peer-reviewed publication of her findings. Yet they are oft-promised and never delivered.

It really boggles the mind.

[Libby2563]

@erinmeri

If she is so speshul, then why not share her work? I would love to see peer-reviewed publication of her findings.

Right? I think, though I could be wrong, that the only “research” she’s possibly done has been with shivers? In the episodes I’ve listened to she mainly seems to review anatomy and make deductions about what biomechanical dysfunction the symptoms suggest. (Does that make sense?)

One series I did listen to in full was on sleep deprivation, because I have a horse with that. Her logic there made zero sense to me. Instead of focusing on why the horse can’t or won’t lie down, she says the horse falls down because there’s a problem with the stay apparatus, and contrary to what everyone else says, horses should be able to get deep REM sleep standing up and that their heads should never drop lower than their withers. She mentioned an article by Dr Amy Johnson at New Bolton, for the sole purpose of contradicting a board-certified neurologist, and didn’t sound like she even knew who Dr Johnson is other than the author of the article.

[AmmyHour926]

It’s the classic if you talk louder and vaguer you sound smarter.

[AmmyHour926]

Anyone listened to this? I am sure there will be some hot takes, https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/kissing-spine-in-sport-horses-part-2-do-you-ride-the/id1435735981?i=1000627214314

[Meshach1]

Last fall through a local vet I worked with a DeClue protégé and what a pile of nonsense it was. A complete waste of money and time with no discernible difference at all. but she would have gladly had me in “rehab” for months and months because of course “it’s not a quick fix”.

Of course I do realize that there are injuries and issues that take time but this wasn’t that. It was a "well your horse cocked his ear to the left when I touched “xyz” so that clearly means blah, blah blah and we’ll have to inject this and that, and my rehab person will put you on a rehab plan and we’ll shockwave and do FES etc etc etc …

And I WANT my horse to feel as good as he can and so I wanted do ALL the things! but I just can’t anymore with $$$$$ stuff that is “well, this * may * help (but there is no strong clinical data that it will) and it won’t hurt” He has felt the best he has felt with me just riding him and doing my own work to help strengthen and I started to bump up his amino acids, crunched his nutritional numbers and started him on Lubrisyn. And trust me, we ain’t going to the Olympics, I piddle around.

I was just listening to the protégé on Instagram pontificating on no matter the age, the horse needs maintenance. even if you just started him under saddle last week, he already needs maintenance. and you need a TEAM. and they are athletes and we have to treat them as such no matter what the level. I think working with the best farrier that you can find, riding properly and as much turnout as possible really goes a long way.

I think this video is amusing cause there is a lot of truth to it

How not to do a lameness exam@davidramey7906

[sascha]

@Meshach1

I think this video is amusing cause there is a lot of truth to it

That video is GOLD!

@Meshach1

the horse needs maintenance. even if you just started him under saddle last week, he already needs maintenance

OMG How did my horse ever make it 10 years under saddle and still sound with only ever having actual problems (loose stifle ligaments and a founder) fixed and no regular maintenance? I cringe when I hear ‘routine maintenance.’

[sara78]

Love thé vidéo it IS so true!!

[skydy]

That video is very funny.

[AmmyHour926]

@Meshach1

Last fall through a local vet I worked with a DeClue protégé and what a pile of nonsense it was. A complete waste of money and time with no discernible difference at all. but she would have gladly had me in “rehab” for months and months because of course “it’s not a quick fix”.

It’s ironic too cause I’m pretty sure this vet likes to claim all other vets are “stealing”
Your money on hock and other joint injections. Meanwhile they Willy nilly inject nerves along the back fixing this mysterious “body lameness” issues with not ONE study to back it up.