Bolting horse under lead line

[Starting-Point-Stabl]

AHHHH the side reins! YES!

I actually suggested this for the Haflinger (above post) we have here when his owners wanted to take him on a field trip to a low key schooling show. I had them haul him with his surcingle on, unload him with a LONG rope attached to the trailer so he couldn’t bolt upon unloading. Then quickly bridle him and side rein him and put him thru his ground work ‘turn on your brain and focus on me’ routine.

They said it DID work! That he didn’t get away… until they removed it for his first in-hand class. :-\

I wonder how many times of NOT bolting it takes to over write all the times they DID bolt? It sure makes it hard on boarding facility routines to surcingle up a horse, bridle him and side rein him to turn out / bring in. Makes it really hard to expect ‘the help’ to do / manage the same.

I also wonder, sans bit & bridle, if you could simply hook the side rein to the halter and around to the side. I’m also a BIG advocate of doing everything equally from left to right, so maybe taking them OUT on the left, bringing them IN on the right so you don’t develop a one sideded horse or give them the chance to learn to modify their “I’m busting loose, see my middle finger?” routine???

Because honestly, you think you are making gains… and while I have NOT dropped my guard or expectations (still asking for halts, half halts, stops etc) I’ve dropped the hardware a little. Maybe you just can’t with these guys?

[Starting-Point-Stabl]

The link is just taking me to their home page… I want to see the halter!!!

[2tempe]

Starting Point - I believe its “the Blocker” - click on tack and accessories

[Countrywood]

Some good advice already given…

Imo, once a horse had learned he can bolt while led, I don’t think they could ever be led like a regular horse , or at least not for years till they are firmly over the habit.

To add to what has been posted, I like walking with my body in line with their ears , or in line with their head/muzzle . A handler being back at the shoulder, the horse is too far in front of you and can easily bolt, on the other hand the handler in front of the horse, the horse can easily pull back and bolt.

A short lead about a foot in the near hand, the rest in the far hand. I like a chain over nose and over poll and clipped to other side. Wear gloves . Carry a dressage whip. The whip elongates your body and gives something to tap them with to move over etc. March with your knees up and purposeful. Don’t amble along. This is body language the horse will respond too. Keep their nose slightly flexed to you as other posters had said.

Linda Telling ton Jones has a guidance for leading horses in bridles through mazes and over poles. Obstacle courses will help him focus on you and pay attention.

Make him halt in hand on the lead, back up, go sideways etc, all on a short lead and use the dressage whip if needed the blunt end as a cue. This way you become n charge and he learns to listen.

Best of luck try the different suggetions on the board and see which works the best and you see progress with.

[Simbalism]

My barn buddy has a large(17h Fresian cross) Generally pretty sweet, but she learned if she didn’t want to do something she could lift her head up and set her neck and she was going exactly where she wanted. We mostly had problems with this when loading her into my trailer to go places. Part of the problem is that her owner(an older lady) really doesn’t demand good ground manners. The horse is usually like a big dog wanting attention so the owner just kind of lets her do what she wants(like wandering around grazing kind of pulling the owner). After some experimentation another friend and I found that the way to get her loaded is head bumper on halter, chain over nose with long lead, and a dressage whip. I don’t let my barn buddy friend load her. She gets all her gear on and then I take her and walk her around for a couple of minutes demanding good ground manners: walk, whoa, back, over. If she doesn’t respond immediately to my request, she gets a reprimand: tap with dressage whip and small pop with the chain. This has changed her from a horse that would bolt sideways and lift you off the ground/barge thru you to a horse that self loads. We never vary the routine as we can tell that she would test you if you didn’t have the chain and whip.

[Countrywood]

Yup, post above echoes why I said carry a dressage whip when you lead this horse. Always.

This post also brings up another good point, and relates to why I said when you lead this horse, adopt a certain body posture and march purposely, with your knees high , your head up and looking straight ahead, like a soldier marching. ( I had to train ground manners on two horses who spent most of their lives in fields and were semi wild so I picked up a few hard learned tricks lol)

Re, this horse might be taking advantage in lots of other little ways, and the bolting under lead line is just the big one.

A horse like this, who is clever and has learned how to exploit human weakness , has to be handled very firmly in all activities, even in little things. You can pet and enjoy him, but be very consistent and ask for manners every day, every moment you handle him.

For example, if he leans into you while brushing, don’t let him. If he shifts around at the mounting block, don’t let him. Make him stand rock still. He turns to rush into his stall, back him up, make him stand, you enter first at his head, he walks behind you. Same thing under saddle.

He needs to rethink in his mind a “new” mental picture of you, the new you who is a leader, and a leader insists on manners and obedience, all the time, not just when being led. THAT is the only way to be safe around horses like this, the rest, halters and equipment are helpful but they are tools… the real safety comes in this horse recasting you in his mind as the leader, and you have to earn that.

If that does not happen, the one time a tool fails or you get sloppy, he will bolt again. The shift in perception of who is a leader, though, is what will ultimately change his behavior. We have seen Shetland ponies boss a huge draft when turned out, so it is mental , not physical. The tools and leading techniques are the means to and end, used in order to change the dynamic and get re cast in the leader role.

That said, I always handle horses a proactive way on the ground (aka, not sloppy). That came from once having owned a stallion, who you have to be more careful with, and training the other two horses plus rehabbing a horrible biter with a friend…(it was her horse, I couldn’t stand him )

I never lead on a long loopy line. If I hand graze, I stay near their head, not off in space where they can get away from me. Certain horses when leading I would always carry a whip with. I always lead into a stall , make him turn around, make him face me, and then I go out, and , with certain horses I walk backwards out of the stall so I am facing them all the time , I don’t turn around and turn my back to them.

So even when the relationships changes and he sees you as leader, practice safe handling .

[glenn]

5 years after the first post, Gotta say this thread really helped. Found the thread only by Google search. I just bought a 9yr old Spotted Draft after owning only QHs. She is big and very full of life. Perfect in the ring, stall, turnout. When we went to evaluate her we did everything but lead her outside the fence as indoor was connected to barn. Once back at my place she showed off her strong neck by dirt surfing me through the woods till I had to let go. After more rope burns I think I got it figured out. Four knot rope halter, gloves (a must), riding crop with leather clapper, head kept turned towards me(this is key), and move forward with purpose. When she tries to turn to the right she gets my elbow in the neck and a smack with the clapper. I am 6’3" 240 lbs… God bless shorter folks with bigger horses. Practiced the moves in the ring to quicken my reaction time to disengage her back end around the pressure of my elbow on the neck. Not always pretty but we are all safe and relaxed. I feel confident now she has a forever home.

[Guilherme]

You don’t have an equipment problem, you have a training problem.

The horse does not respect you or the rope. They behave, when they behave, because they feel like it. When they don’t, they don’t.

So, you need to decide on a program you like, put the horse in the round pen, and establish/re-establish yourself as The Boss. I’d use a round pen vice a normal longing system to start because we know the horse doesn’t respect a line. This does not mean you beat or run the horse into submission; it does mean that you establish yourself as the Great Alpha. I doubt seriously that the Parelli system will do for you. I recommend you get, read, and follow the instructions in Common Sense Horsemanship by Vladimir Littauer. It’s free for downloading in multiple places on the web. He has a 7 month program that will do the job for you.

Good luck in your choices.

G.

[skydy]

I have never dealt with draft types and have never encountered this behavior. I am wondering though. It seems as if many people are in over their heads and the situation is quite unsafe for all concerned.

Guilherme, if a person was green and unable to effectively train the horse would one of those big old rawhide bosals work?

[Melissa.Van_Doren]

Countrywood gives great advice. You have to re-train yourself before you can re-train a horse. Become aware of your body language and your intent - you have to be moving purposefully and thinking about what you want him to do, not anticipating/bracing for when he misbehaves. The second will always leave you behind. And you have to do it consistently. Every. Single. Time you lead him. Anywhere. No matter how few steps.

In addition to increased handler awareness, I’ve always found it useful to simply lead the horse from the “off” side. They’re often not used to having a human there, and so they tend to be “on guard” and behave better.

Good luck.

[WNT]

There was an App/Perch/TB cross I worked with for over 7 years at my old barn. He had that trick down to an art. His owner (bless her heart) was completely under his thumb, and he’d test everyone that worked with him. He caught me out more than once with the “exit stage right” trick; never bolting but just inexorably enough that he’d pull the rope out of your hands and trot off. I’d get him sorted out, and he’d be good for a few weeks but he’d try again. Usually because he got away with it with someone else once or twice. He was a stinker.

Seriously, for me anyway, the only thing that really nipped it permanently was when he lost his eyesight and he was FORCED to trust and listen to the person leading him. And he’d still occasionally try if he thought it was safe to get away with (just not with me or the BO any more).

[TheMountainsAreCalli]

Had a mustang who “got our number” once and learned very quickly he could bolt from a handler who wasn’t paying strict attention. We made sure that no one handled him but the two trainers, and we were very careful to watch him as we led him back and forth from pastures. He would also sull up and stand stock still while you tried to lead him, as an alternative to his bolt-and-run days. As soon as he sulled up, we backed him hard, twenty or forty feet. We also led him in and out from pastures with a buddy, to help him keep his mind on where he was going. When leading him alone, we would make it a game to walk, then stop, then walk and trot, then weave, then stop and graze for a minute as a reward, etc. Never just a strict walk to work. In the round pen, we ground drove him extensively to try and replicate the bolting behavior (although he was under saddle already). The ground driving definitely helped establish a better habit when leading, and soon we started lunging him again with a snaffle bit. We very slowly increased the size of the lunging circle (from inside the round pen, to a small corral, to inside the indoor arena, then out to a larger pasture). He would occasionally try half-heartedly to go somewhere, but he was always in a fenced-in area on a super-long rope so he never got rid of us. Then he’d get worked harder, or backed, or whatever again. It did seem to cure the problem. He was just really smart, and perhaps if he went back to being handled by clueless handlers, he would have gone back to his old habits. But once the rules were laid down, he seemed to come around all right. He was a beauty and a sweetie, but he wasn’t above using his smarts to get his way.

[DressageFancy]

I had a very nice 4 yr old quarter horse given to me because of this problem. He had simply learned that he was strong enough to bolt away whenever he wanted. I cured him with a lounge rope through the bottom halter ring and down between his front legs to the off hing pastern loop around pastern). Took all of three times of having his feet yanked out from under him and that was the end of that habit. It is all about leverage. I just stood still and let him hit rope himself. Each time he went down he just looked back at me like “How did that happen?”.

[NoSuchPerson]

[QUOTE=49’er;5602026]
I had a young stallion who learned to bolt and run when I was turning him out in pasture. I cured him with a leather lunging cavesson. The lead was attached to the front of the nose and I had the leverage to stop him in his tracks.[/QUOTE]

This. You still have to pay attention and not let the horse get his shoulder ahead of you, but having the lead attached to the ring on the front of the nose and the weight of the leather lunging cavesson behind it is a game changer.

[Ticker]

While this is a really old thread I see some are interested in ideas so I will share what worked for me on a young stallion.

First of all, a chain over the nose made him worse, much much worse.

My training plan consisted of bringing him out of his stall and offering a small treat. This let’s him know we will be ‘working’ since that’s the only time he gets treats.

We walk outside maybe 10 steps and halt. I ask him to back up 2 or 3 steps then come forward and halt for his reward. I repeat this multiple times on the way to his turnout.

If he starts his antics, rearing, leaping, Bolting etc, I squirt him in the face with my water spay bottle until he stops. I then ask him to back 2 or 3 steps and come forward to a halt for a reward. I will give him 2 chances to behave himself.
If he fails, I turn him around and he goes back to his stall for 30 minutes.

I will bring him out after his 30 minutes are up, if he is still a stinker he goes back to his stall and gets no turnout at all for the day. Only once did a youngster lose his turnout for the day.

I’ve done this with young stallions and naughty young geldings with success.
None of my mares ever needed this.

[allons-y]

I had a draft cross with this habit. The grooms at his prev barn were short folks, and he just did as he pleased with them. I’m short too. After the first time, hard neck, obviously practiced!, I said OK, I’m too small, so say hello to my little friend! I made sure no one else was around, but this was an all or nothing CTJ moment. Chain on nose and I really went to town on him the second he got that glint in his eye and stiffened his neck. I added lots of angry growling.

He never tried it again, anytime I put the chain on, he’d heave a great sigh and be a puppy. Rarely did I need to put the chain on again. mostly just when on stall rest. Be serious, not tentative, dead serious once, and the learning curve is short.

[Flash44]

[QUOTE=DressageFancy;8897976]
I had a very nice 4 yr old quarter horse given to me because of this problem. He had simply learned that he was strong enough to bolt away whenever he wanted. I cured him with a lounge rope through the bottom halter ring and down between his front legs to the off hing pastern loop around pastern). Took all of three times of having his feet yanked out from under him and that was the end of that habit. It is all about leverage. I just stood still and let him hit rope himself. Each time he went down he just looked back at me like “How did that happen?”.[/QUOTE]

I’d never recommend a technique that has a high probability of resulting in injury to horse or handler. That is not training.

[Dressage_Strider]

This obviously, can be a VERY dangerous thing to correct. If the horse can turn his head away from you, then he has the balance and therefore balance of his neck and the rest of his body! Which also instantly puts you in the line of danger - HINDQUARTERS

So the name of the game is, keep his head on you.

Spend a lot of time lunging and pivoting.

When lunging keep him on a very short line - switch directions frequently, and pause a lot when he is paying attention

Bonus - this is just good to do in general, whether or not the horse bolts - asking the horse to always have his head bent towards you (slightly) ensure he is paying attention, AND you know where he is going should he decide to not pay attention (will just be a circle around you)

When you are leading, ask for his head to be slightly turned to you. Should he decide to bolt, you are able to easily throw him into a turn on the forehand or a small lunging circle - because you have the head.

Once you have begun gaining confidence and success on the pivots, leading and small lunging circles, you can start teaching him pressure on the barrel means - move out - this will allow you to actually be able to lunge him, with head towards you, and not dropping his inside shoulder or simply throwing his HQ out, thus preventing the breakaway.

[Linda]

I had one of these horses a while back. Did a lot of what is recommended here - plus this. When I got him out for work, we started by walking out of the stall, stopping and backing up -several times. I wanted him to know he needed to watch me and follow my direction. Then I would use the lead rope to move his hind end to one side and then the other. We would walk forward a few steps, stop, back up - repeat. At first he ignored me so I put a chain across his gums). Yes that was severe but it sure got his attention. If he tried to bolt, he would hit that chain on his gums and was amazed actually. I only had to do that for about a week unless he hadnt been out for a while. Every time I got him out, I would move him around with the lead line, back him up, go forward etc - andI did this until I felt I had his attention. He got the message. Every now and then, I could tell he was thinking about bolting (if his head was up and , he was looking around and I would look straight at him and use my voice NO NO NO NO. Then back him up, put him on a circle with my lead line and send him forward, back him up,move him sideways always being strong with my voice. After about a month. I was a lot more comfortable handling him. But it was always in the back of my mind. If it was a windy day, or he was a fresh, I was always watching and reminding him by circling on the lead line, backing him up, and being firm. He turned out to be a good guy but I always knew to be ready especially if it was a cool windy day or he was fresh. Id do some “reminders” - back up, move over, listen to me…

[Gestalt]

Guilherme’s advice is close to what helped my boy. Mine was a 4yo that had never been led, only very basic handling, and he knew his strength. I couldn’t hold him even with a chain over his nose and a lunge line, he was simply too strong. A trainer that learned from Ray Hunt and Tom Dorrance started him. Within the week you could lead him anywhere with a shoe string.

A great trainer can help the horse to learn the skills it will need to get along with people. Chains, whips, and other devices do not have to be such a big part of your horses life.