Breed Ideas & Info

[dreamswept]

[QUOTE=spotnnotfarm;5283677]
WOW! This thread has been an eye opener! I REALLY wanted a Haffie! I did not realize they were so difficult! I will stick with paints![/QUOTE]

They aren’t THAT bad You have easy ones and you have difficult ones, just takes some looking around to find the ‘right’ one. Same as any other breed

Me, I didn’t do any research at all. I went, I tried, and I liked. First Haffie I ever saw in the flesh, practically the only one in all of Santa Barbara County. I’ve had him 2 years now, and he’s been just stellar for me. We’ve had some rocky moments, but we’ve worked through them. No more or less than any other breed, including paints.

Haflinger folks like to say there’s no better horse if you can be smarter than your Haflinger. They’re just smart. And playful. That’s why Mitch has so many toys. He can play around all day, and he’s in a willing mood when I arrive. I just have to be alert and aware. It doesn’t mean he’s gonna pull a fast one on me, but I just have to know what he’s thinking before he does.

And honestly, I can say, he’s put up with a lot more “sierra” (military code-speak thar) than my Thoroughbred ever did, including dressing him up as a racehorse, complete with shadow roll and a blinker hood.

Check my blog in my link. I’ve got a couple of years worth of reading material about a Haffie who is doing good on trails. Amongst other things.

[SoCalGal]

[QUOTE=dreamswept;5283377]
Like I said, might take a certain personality to work with 'em. They are aware of how much they weigh and it’s a heck of a lot more than you and I, so they’re not against using that difference to get what they want.

Just have to out-think 'em, that’s all. My friend likened it to working with a stallion. Give a Haffie an inch, they’ll take a mile. You gotta have constant vigilance with them.

For a happy story, I had a super ride today despite the fact that it was deary, cold and overcast (Waah, where’s my Southern California sunshine) I had a full cheek snaffle on my guy (with a flash noseband) and a french link snaffle at that. Good as gold he was. Even did a lil bombing around on the ranch trails.

Not sure if we’ll ever cross paths, but if you happen to be out riding, and see a golden pony with turquoise tack, that’ll likely be us.[/QUOTE]

I think it depends on the individual. In retrospect in working with this horse there were other signs that he was checking out.

Like I may have said, I’ve trained wild mustangs, from scratch and just about every breed. They’ve all been different, not only from the other breeds but also from individual to individual.

The Hafy I worked with was not a trainable temperament. For example, teaching him to give to pressure. I worked on it, worked on it worked on it…hundreds of repetitions. But when his brain would “check out” there was zero response, even though this is classic “conditioned response” behavior.

When training him there were many times that I felt him just tune out mentally, and was totally unaware. We worked on respecting space, etc but if he tuned out, he’d run you right over.

I can’t fully describe how disconnected I felt his mind was…even a friend of mine who trains noticed it. She said it was like sometimes he just “wasn’t there” and was completely unaware or unaffected by anyone’s presence. He was so strange.

I have no doubt that, had he not hurt me, eventually we could have dealt with his issues and made much more progress. But like I say, I am not willing to work with an animal anymore that is heavy, stubborn, and willing to give me all he’s got. It just takes once to hurt or kill you.

I still hurt every day from what he dealt me, and may forever. To me that’s not a workable horse when the world is full of millions of horses that would never think of doing such a thing.

I’ve heard so many stories like this.

But again I bet your horse is awesome and maybe didn’t have the malice in him that mine did. I in no way mean to bash Mitch, he sounds like a sweet guy. But if my former Hafy ended up as a steak I wouldn’t bat an eye.

As it is,the breeder shipped him to the Amish as a driving horse candidate after he hurt me. Turns out, he’d already been returned once for issues and his first trainer felt he was unsafe too. Wish they would have shared that before I bought him.

Wonder what he would have been like to start…he’s one that I did not start under saddle myself…hm.

[D_BaldStockings]

Since you say you want a horse to re-sell in about a year, I have to wonder what you think a trained trail horse (any breed) is worth?

I’m simply saying that you might be better with more specific training for a more valuable end product that you are capable of creating. I’m certain a little research in your locale will give you some useful answers.

If you ARE looking at producing a trail horse then you likely need to go with a low-to-free initial price with a horse you ‘click’ with whether it reminds you of a former horse or is a breed you already like.

If you are as experienced as you have posted, perhaps the auction house is a resource you should explore, or the QH /Paint racing circuit, as you seem to gravitate that direction?

I am personally prejudiced in favor of Saddlebreds, I love their temperament and we get along famously; my oldest is a clean-legged 1986 model I’ve owned 1/2 her life, never sick, never lame, always a lady …yet everyone should go with horses that put smiles on their face just being on the way to the stable to see them.

So think what you enjoy and what a horse of that breed/type can be trained to do (in addition to being a good trail horse) in about a year’s time.

Good searching!

[D_BaldStockings]

[QUOTE=howardh;5271578]
…Saddlebreds were supposed to be the quarter horses with flair of the south! Is that so gone as I cannot find it anywhere on the web!

I think this breed looks really cool, but.?[/QUOTE]

Training for spcific disciplines has it’s effect on any horse. There are still many people who use show-bred Saddlebreds for many other disciplines. a sample:

http://www.saddlebredsarefun.com/saddlebredstrail.htm

And there are breeders who quietly go their own way with their horses and they are quite capable of the uses you are having difficulty finding; here is one:
http://www.palominosaddlebred.com/index.htm

Not trying to derail the thread, just offering some info.

[SoCalGal]

I’ve decided to stick with a QH, and stay away from my hunt saddle for quite awhile til my hip can handle it better. I am very well acquainted with QH, and can train my horse to do a variety of things. If I buy a reining/cow bred horse, I can also do team sorting, and reining. If I buy a hunt-bred horse, later on I can do hunter under saddle and/or over fences.

The reason I said I might re-sell in a year is if I got a gaited horse, specifically. For me, a gaited horse would be for trails only, I could not ride that horse later as a hunter, jumper, or reiner, for example. So if I decided I wanted to ride hunt seat again and/or jump, the gaited horse wouldn’t be the ticket. With that in mind, buying a horse for 10K from a breeder would not be prudent as often you don’t get the $$ back out. That has been my experience with rare breeds or high prices at breeders…you usually take a bath later on.

If you buy low, and/or buy a very popular breed, you can usually sell at least for what you have in if not more. I’ve started, trained, and re-trained QH, Arabs, and TB’s. I’ve broken even or made $$ on QH and TB’s and always lost $$ on Arabs.

When I see a Peruvian Paso for a ton of $$ at a breeder’s, for example, and then see only 5 on Dreamhorse for $3500, that’s the type of thing that makes me think hmmm…if I sold that horse after a year, I’d take a bath!

So that was my point…it was only as pertains to a gaited horse.

Horse values depend on so many things I can’t say what a “trail horse” is worth. All depends on breed, temperament, soundness, size, age, training, ability, can they do things other than trail, bloodlines, looks…the list goes on!!!

[D_BaldStockings]

[QUOTE=SoCalGal;5285124]
I’ve decided to stick with a QH, and stay away from my hunt saddle for quite awhile til my hip can handle it better. I am very well acquainted with QH, and can train my horse to do a variety of things. If I buy a reining/cow bred horse, I can also do team sorting, and reining. If I buy a hunt-bred horse, later on I can do hunter under saddle and/or over fences.

The reason I said I might re-sell in a year is if I got a gaited horse, specifically. For me, a gaited horse would be for trails only, I could not ride that horse later as a hunter, jumper, or reiner, for example. So if I decided I wanted to ride hunt seat again and/or jump, the gaited horse wouldn’t be the ticket. With that in mind, buying a horse for 10K from a breeder would not be prudent as often you don’t get the $$ back out. That has been my experience with rare breeds or high prices at breeders…you usually take a bath later on.

If you buy low, and/or buy a very popular breed, you can usually sell at least for what you have in if not more. I’ve started, trained, and re-trained QH, Arabs, and TB’s. I’ve broken even or made $$ on QH and TB’s and always lost $$ on Arabs.
When I see a Peruvian Paso for a ton of $$ at a breeder’s, for example, and then see only 5 on Dreamhorse for $3500, that’s the type of thing that makes me think hmmm…if I sold that horse after a year, I’d take a bath!
So that was my point…it was only as pertains to a gaited horse.

Horse values depend on so many things I can’t say what a “trail horse” is worth. All depends on breed, temperament, soundness, size, age, training, ability, can they do things other than trail, bloodlines, looks…the list goes on!!![/QUOTE]

I often think somewhat similarly when viewing QH, Paints, etc. I see so many very low priced ones…on the other hand, I probably couldn’t tell a good prospect in those breeds (bloodlines, type details) that would bring the highest price when trained and shown -I’d end up with something ordinary and wonder what I had done wrong.

If you are interested in short term recovery from your injury, you might try a short term lease of a gaited breed or help foster a rescue, since I doubt you will be down with your injury for more than about 3 months with consistent riding. Local clubs could point you to someone to add to your knowledge and enjoyment without the buy/sell risk.

Jumping into the deep end of the pool with a breed you are not familiar with is a pretty sure way to ‘take a bath’!

[SoCalGal]

Jumping into the deep end of the pool with a breed you are not familiar with is a pretty sure way to ‘take a bath’!

Agreed, LOL! Well put.

It’s interesting how confident one can be when dealing with breeds where one is experienced and knowledgeable and how intimidating it is trying to decipher what’s what with new breeds, gaits, people, breeders!!!

Well hey, if you ever need a QH, Paint or TB feel free to show me the horse and I’ll let you know what I think I definitely feel confident there.

There’s good and bad out there of EVERY breed, for sure, but it helps to know what you’re looking at!!! Happy trails.

[LCR]

The Shagya is a breed that dates back to 1789, so it’s characteristics, temperament, athletic ability are relatively consistent. The Austro Hungarian Monarchy wanted a superior cavalry horse, as at that time their conflicts were fought by mounted troops

They went out in the desert and brought back five of the best Arabian stallions that were available with their unlimited power and money. A breeding program was began that probably in the history of the horse has never been duplicated! For a generation or two they used purebred Arabian mares and a handful of elite mares
captured from Spain and the eastern European seaboard. WAHO recognizes the Shagya as a separate ARABIAN BREED, but because 221 years ago a handful of Baroque and even Thoroughbred mares were used, AHA chooses not to call it
purebred. Since that time ONLY purebred Arabians have been allowed as an outcross, so they are essentially purebred Arabians, with specific traits solidified by generations of ruthless culling and selection. An Arabian with many of the undesirable traits eliminated and replaced with a really remarkable brain. Almost like it is re-wired! This is definately a Shagya thing and unless you are up close and personable with a Shagya it doesn’t make any sense!!

The Monarchy had the funds to establish stud farms over unlimited acres and countries, and the stud managers were mainly masters of selection. Only an elite few were kept in the breeding herd–the rest sent to the Army, that needed an endless supply of horses.

The stallions especially had to meet three years of progeny testing and endurance races that left only a few labeled CHIEF STALLIONS. Good riding characteristics, rugged bone, 15.3 to 16.1 h.h., and especially temperament
were all given priority.

Is it any wonder that today, the Shagya is finding its niche in the endurance world? In Europe the Shagya does many disciplines, cross country, dressage, jumping etc. They are excellent at anything they are asked to do and perfect family horses.

They are still rare in the U.S. mainly because no one that has a Shagya will sell it, if it is riding age. They love and interact with their people and normally are once-in-a-lifetime horses!

www.shagyaregistry.com

Do read the Newsletter just put on line and enjoy!

[pnalley]

In this economey I wouldn’t bet on any horse of any breed being able to recoup it’s purchase price.

BTW we do use our Paso’s for team sorting, ranch sorting and other cattle events. We are at the novice level, but we have loads of fun with them.

[spotnnotfarm]

[QUOTE=pnalley;5287852]

BTW we do use our Paso’s for team sorting, ranch sorting and other cattle events. We are at the novice level, but we have loads of fun with them.[/QUOTE]

Pnalley- correct me if I am wrong but aren’t Paso’s used for cattle work in Spain? I thought I read that somewhere and they are quite good at it.

[SoCalGal]

Even in this economy I always sell for far more than I paid, sadly I still lose $$ because my board is $600 a month, ugh. I buy horses with only a little, or no training, groom them to the hilt, get them super trained, and as a result they have more value than when I bought them.

But like I said…with expenses being what they are, I still don’t make a net profit, only gross. Better than a total loss though!

[pnalley]

Spot,
I have read that they are (were) used for cattle work in Columbia & Puerto Rico.
I think the Eblis line was known for cattle work.

Training is key in selling. If you enjoy them for a year and then sell for more than what you paid, I’d say your doing good

[Doctracy]

Watch out for the old QH foundation blood. The worst buckers that I’ve dealt with are the King and Leo lines.
There are a couple of Halfies in our beagle hunt which are used for beginners. A little naughty but sane.
Our Master used to ride a huge, 16.3 hand Rocky MTN horse who was very nice but could get hot.
There are a lot of people in our group getting Welsh Cobs, due to great temperament, soundness and sanity. I’ve pasted a picture of one here:

http://www.allstallionsdirectory.com/ponydir/welshcob/wc0005/wc0005lg2.jpg
What other smooth, sane, sound and beautiful breeds are people riding on the trails these days? I definitely want an easy going horse, built to last, and fun to be around

I’d love to hear from everyone! Anyone have Pasos or Paso Finos? I think I’ve ruled the TWH out…although I know they have lovely temperaments

Thanks!
Jenny[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=rainechyldes;5267617]
I’ve met a few hot haffies, so that doesn’t surprise me. A friend of mine traded in her hot minded haffie for an icelandic, and hasn’t looked back - so that is a fair option if you are looking for a gaited pony sized trail partner.

If size isn’t a matter, another breed you might want to look at is a standardbred - they make extremely nice, sensible minded trail horses, that are perfectly capable all day. Appaloosas (if you want some flash) & QHs are other great options.

For QHs, I tend to gravitate towards older bloodlines, (think bulldog lines) for steady minded trail work - rather then the halter type lines.

Paso wise, - I’d take a fino before I’d take a peruvian - but thats just my personal preference - be warned though- pasos can be hot as well, they are considered a hot breed due to the large amount of spanish blood.

As for Arabians. Endurance lines aren’t super well defined, - but in my experience Khemosabi lines oft times tend to be the ‘workhorse’ line of the bunch , (ime) Padrons can be fairly sensible as well , Bask lines are a bit iffy- I own a wonderful double bred Bask gelding, on the other hand I’ve met some real doozies from that bloodline so…

Saddlebreds are another option - also can be hot, or not, depending.

Any breed you choose of course, comes with the caveat that environment/training and that horses individual personality will most likely play a larger part in your enjoyment level then the bloodline.[/QUOTE]

[pnalley]

I have Paso Fino’s (and Apps) got my first Paso in the early 70’s what do you need to know?

[SoCalGal]

Have owned, trained and ridden a ton of foundation QH in my lifetime and never had a bad attitude or bucker in the lot! Various bloodlines…King, Leo, Driftwood, Hancock, etc…Everyone’s experiences are different but mine have been that these are generous, honest horses

Still “slightly” considering the Paso Fino by the way…oh a toss up between what I KNOW, and something that keeps grabbing at me, so beautiful, so fascinating.

ARgh

[pnalley]

SoCal.
Go to www.americanpasofinos.com

There are some good people on that site and it may be possible to arrange a test ride for you. I find it rather surprising but many Paso owners are more than willing to let people try out the ride so they can see if the breed really is the right one for them.

[system]

Last night, i bought a pair of shoes for myself on wearsgo.I hope it can arrive earlier. I believe is will be fantastics.

[scrtwh]

Not sure why you don’t like TWH’s. I have two, one has a huge stride and I show her, she is also Type A and super sensitive so not for someone who wants to “relax”, my gelding is a rock, with a shorter stride and is much easier to ride for loooonnnnggg periods of time. Takes everything in stride, has a tremendous sense of humor and just LOVES everything and everybody. ASB’s are “taught” to be “up” in the show ring. Get them with some turnout and good diet and they will be your best friend forever. They have big, suspended trots though, so not sure if they are the best for folks who don’t want to post. My ASB used to show and was successful in the midwest. Brought him home and he was one of the hubby/kid horses. So… he mellowed out with proper turnout and diet. although he is retired now due to health issues.

MFT are great, RMH are wonderful … lots of options. :winkgrin: