Huh. I just took a look at pubmed for the research showing early spay increases risk of spay incontinence, and it’s not clear. Several studies have found no connection between pediatric spay & incontinence.
I did find this study really interesting, though:
@Dreamwarmbloods perhaps an ovary sparing spay would thread this needle for you? No messy cycles or chance or pregnancy. Your puppy would keep her hormones, which is presumably why the breeder wants a later spay.
I think spay incontinence is a risk no matter what age. My now deceased bitch had 2 litters and then spayed at 6. She needed to go on Proin at age 11 due to incontinence.
Ovary saving spay is useful but definitely something to think through if the bitch will work in competition. They can still be considered intact in some types of competition. (Does not seem that is a concern in this case, though.)
I’d just do it and no longer be in contact with her. I seriously doubt she’s going to do anything about it
Piggybacking off this topic bc something similar is going on with me. My dog was to be neutered no earlier than 18m. I signed off on that. Well in the fine print it says no later than 24 months. Which yes I should have fully read the 30 page contract but she never said anything. My intent has never been to breed him and he never has been.
Fast forward, the dog is now 5 and 3 YEARS past the age the contract says should have been fixed. She is now writing me to say I have month to get him fixed or she is going to penalize me $5000. I told her if she truly cared about him being fixed, why didn’t she message me THREE years ago. I feel like this is a breech of contract on her end? Again- he isn’t breeding nor do I ever plan on it. He is 5!
Anyone have any insight on this?
Does the small print also include this penalty the breeder is now trying to impose?
Imagine if horse breeders acted this way?
“You will shoe Dobbins with NBs or pay me $5k”
Yikes.
If I was selling “do not breed me” puppies, they’d be vasectomied / tubes nipped before they left. That allows for the hormones to assist in good growth without puppies getting into the hands of BYB. But dictating to the owner of a animal you sold - is that even legally enforceable??
No, this is what it says “ Pet Quality shall be understood as the puppy is to be spayed or neutered between 18 - 24 months of (unless mutually agreed upon in writing).
This is what the contract says about the breech “ If Buyer breaches any part of this contact, the Buyer is liable for damages of up to $5,000, if t amount has not already been stated, or may result in voiding of health or temperament guarantee.”
Right?! That’s exactly what I’m wondering. I understand waiting until 18m to be fixed bc we want to growth plates to form and fuse correctly but not having it done by a certain age or I’ll be fined is not something I was told.
*I can’t comment anymore bc I’m a new user and it only allowed 3 comments temporarily- so I am editing this one…
In response to Yaya:
I was absolutely told to get him fixed no earlier than 18m. My contract is 30 pages long, I can assure you she didn’t go over every word in our meeting in the hotel lobby we picked him up from (we drove out of state to get him) and I can assure you that I was never told to do so by 24m. I followed every other crazy rule she imposed and at 24 months- I never heard a word from here as to needing proof he was altered. As I stated above- should I have sat down and read the 30 pages after the fact. Yes.
That’s not even the question. My question is it a breeder breech of contract if something is required by them (I.E. neutering between 18 & 24m) has come and gone- never following up to make sure it’s done and asking for proof for her records. The dog is now 64 months old- a whole 3 YEARS older than said date & Ive never heard a word from the breeder until today about something completely irrelevant that just so happened to bring up this matter.
If it is in a written contract that you signed, then you definitely were told, you just didn’t bother to read before you signed.
If it says 18-24 months, then it seems to be there is no breach. They can sue for damages of up to $5K - but doesn’t seem to me that there are any damages to the breeder.
But there is no damage to the breeder. If you were suing the breeder because the dog now needed cruiciate repair surgery and you thought there was a congenital connection and were telling people this…I suppose that might be some kind of “damage”.
If you have a lawyer friend, I’d have them draft a letter back. Contract was not breached, damages do not exist.
And just FYI - no reputable breeder has a 30 page contract. That’s insane. I’d like to see it.
This is not legal advice but I would just ignore her. You haven’t bred the dog, so there are no damages.
Reading this again, maybe she knows that there is a reason that you might challenge the health or temperament guarantee and she’s trying to get out it?
If other dogs in the litter have had health issues, she might feel like she needs to proactively void your contract.
How does the breeder know you haven’t neutered the dog? Did they call or email and ask?
They would have to prove damages to the breeder and there are none. Were the registration papers done on full or limited registration?
And I’m curious as to what breed this is. I have never heard of a 30 page contract. Mine is two and a half pages and is quite thorough. To me, this sounds more like a doodle puppy mill contract.
It’s a Doberman on limited registration…it’s a literal book LOL I have another dog that just gave birth to puppies that aren’t even related to my Doberman. And she is insisting that they are his bc he isn’t neutered. And she doesn’t know he isn’t neutered but is demanding paperwork showing his is neutered or else the puppies must be his …I don’t owe this woman a thing but my word that he is neutered! And I certainly have no problem DNA testing puppies if I had to LOL
It honestly sounds like she is trying to find a way to get the $5k
That’s a good idea. I don’t understand what “damages” she is even talking about since I didn’t get him neutered by 24 months. There isn’t anything damaging on my end LOL
It makes sense now. She thinks you are making money off the dog she sold you with a limited registration.
That explains why she is upset and insisting on damages.
Not saying it is true, but that explains her meltdown.
Yes for sure…id be mad too! But I would also be checking in on my dogs 3 years ago to see if they had been fixed LOL here is the best part- the dog that was pregnant is a stray (we live on a farm and people tend to drop animals off here) and came here pregnant LOL we aren’t breeders…we don’t own any female dogs bc we don’t want puppies. We breed cows- that’s it LOL And this poor girl had been through enough…there was no way we were going to take this girl to the pound to have her puppies.
So what do the puppies look like? Is the dam a mixed breed of some sort? Did you tell her the dog is a stray that wandered in pregnant? How old are the puppies and how have they been dispersed, assuming they are old enough?
Oh and she is friends with me on FB…where she saw the puppies had been born. She didn’t think this through apparently bc If I was trying to make a buck and breed Doberman babies behind her back- I sure I heck wouldn’t post it for her to see 
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