A maiden mare often throws small, or not, if that helps 
Height is multifactorial, so it can seem random at times. It is several genes together so you can have other horses in the pedigree show more similarities in height than the parents. If the population is all similar in height, then you see consistency.
I wouldn’t breed to a pony as you may get a Franken horse, one with characteristics of both breeds, aka big head and little legs. You want to find a talented stallion that tends to throw small. He may or may not be smaller himself. Contender is known to throw small but not consistenly. Few will throw it consistenly. But you also do not know how your mare will throw and it is possible that she will tend to produce much smaller than herself.
If you breed for a really good dressage horse by using a really quality stallion that matches your mare in pedigree and type and corrects her weaknesses, then you should at least end up with a good dressage horse that may or may not be tall. If you breed for height as a main goal, your chances of ending up with a FEI dressage horse will be much less.
Breeding mainly for height may give you an average horse the right size…lots out there already.
Try KWPN as they do meticulous stats on their stallions, and pick an older stallion with a really good track record. You will probably end up using frozen then.
Something very dressagebred but small like Ridley (who also has a horse approval) might give you something nice with more registration options than a stallion only registered pony…
If I am breeding for a horse to stay at the farm, I am breeding for brains. Height, color, movement is useless if you can’t ride it to it’s max. Seen enough people breed to some great pro horses but they were AA and got to much horse for them.
I have bred several Horse x Pony and Pony x Horse Crosses (WB, TB and Arabian) . We breed Purebred and Partbred Connemaras for Dressage and Eventing. I have yet to breed a frankenhorse but Connemaras are the largest of the pony breeds and have far more substance and body depth than many other pony breeds and types. I believe the trick is mainly to match types as closely as possible so that the body types are proportionately more alike than they are different. For example I would not breed a full size deep bodied mare to a tiny super refined or narrow pony.
In my experience with height its generally more an either or–either more like the sire or more like the dam. Finally I think it may be easier to find horse stallions bearing some pony character than the other way around.
Thankyou all, definitely a lot to consider. the mare is proven GP mare with great brains and above average movement, other than her height there is nothing i would be in a hurry to change, it is more as I get older i don’t really need bigger. I will have a look at proven stallions and see if there is any know to consistently through smaller progeny.
She is a Florencio x Donnerhall if this helps so not huge height there
thanks x
I have an 18 hand mare that I tried to downsize by breeding to a petite 15.3 hand stallion and the resulting offspring is 17.2 and not done growing. Neither of the mare’s parents are overly large, so I don’t know where the height came from, but she has definitely thrown it.
[QUOTE=ticofuzzy;]
I have an 18 hand mare that I tried to downsize by breeding to a petite 15.3 hand stallion and the resulting offspring is 17.2 and not done growing. Neither of the mare’s parents are overly large, so I don’t know where the height came from, but she has definitely thrown it.[/QUOTE]
I need to use this post as an example of how many people need to go PAST the dam and sire to determine future height. I bang this drum all the time and this is a very, very common mistake made.
Know your pedigrees before making the commitment to breed. Warmbloods are a crossbred breed and will bring hidden height to the table when you least expect it. Same goes with crossbred ponies. When it’s not a purebred, the chances of height from a grandparent showing up exists.
[QUOTE=VirginiaBred;8481764]
I need to use this post as an example of how many people need to go PAST the dam and sire to determine future height. I bang this drum all the time and this is a very, very common mistake made.
Know your pedigrees before making the commitment to breed. Warmbloods are a crossbred breed and will bring hidden height to the table when you least expect it. Same goes with crossbred ponies. When it’s not a purebred, the chances of height from a grandparent showing up exists.[/QUOTE]
I agree with your post, but also have to say, some of them may have hidden midget in their as well! I have a Galoubet mare (Graf Gotthard on the dam line), who is about 16.1, and MOST of her babies have been smaller no matter who I breed to. If she wasn’t so old, I’d breed her to a pony, hahahaha… She’s had 2 tall babies (and both were stallions that threw height), and about 7 foals by 5 different stallions that were all 15.2 and under. And I point this out to kind of support your post and to go further and say “get an understanding of what that specific stallion and dam throw - it may not be what you expect”…
[QUOTE=VirginiaBred;8481764]
I need to use this post as an example of how many people need to go PAST the dam and sire to determine future height. I bang this drum all the time and this is a very, very common mistake made.[/QUOTE]
I was well aware of the heights of the horses in the pedigrees past the sire and dam. I did my research before breeding. All stallions in the pedigree of the resulting offspring (for 3 generations back) were between 16.1 and 16.3. Obviously, if you go back far enough in any warmblood’s pedigree, you will find extremes at either end of the spectrum. The point of my post was to let the OP know that it does not always work to breed a tall mare to a small stallion when trying to downsize. That does not mean that one should not try…
I think it is well understood amongst experienced breeders that to downsize a BIG WB mare, the breeder should be looking at purebred stallions from a smaller breed - in particular, Welsh Ponies and maybe even small Arabians.
However, this presents a challenge for breeders who want to register the foal with a WB registry. There aren’t many Arabian stallions approved for warmblood breeding - and some registries don’t accept them at all. And Welsh pony stallions are only approved for pony breeding - not for WB breeding.
IOW -if the breeder uses a purebred Arabian or Welsh stallion to get a better chance of downsizing, they may not be able to register the foal with their registry of choice. (And I am guessing that Eliza had considered that conundrum when she made her stallion choice.)
[QUOTE=DownYonder;8486582]
I think it is well understood amongst experienced breeders that to downsize a BIG WB mare, the breeder should be looking at purebred stallions from a smaller breed - in particular, Welsh Ponies and maybe even small Arabians.
However, this presents a challenge for breeders who want to register the foal with a WB registry. There aren’t many Arabian stallions approved for warmblood breeding - and some registries don’t accept them at all. And Welsh pony stallions are only approved for pony breeding - not for WB breeding.
IOW -if the breeder uses a purebred Arabian or Welsh stallion to get a better chance of downsizing, they may not be able to register the foal with their registry of choice. (And I am guessing that Eliza had considered that conundrum when she made her stallion choice.)[/QUOTE]
It also a problem if you want to produce a FEI quality offspring. She wanted to keep the talent. Ponies are super talented but your best chance lies in picking a quality stallion that matches her type and pedigree. I read (could be wrong) that the OP is also wanting a partner of the same quality of her mare.
Well, sometimes going larger is just not an option any more lol. Since my stallion, Lotus T is 17.2H and definitely throws size and substance, I ran I to the same problem when looking for stallions for his daughters. However when you breed horses that are so different in size and blood lines, the likelihood of getting the awkward end of the breeding gamble. I decided to purchase Caligula II, a Holsteiner Verband approved stallion, who is 16.1H and who’s pedigree is very compatible to the bloodlines of my Lotus T daughters. Caligula II is also a compact, powerful type stallion, as opposed to Lotus T’s tall, leggy, longer lines!
[QUOTE=szipi;8486844]
Well, sometimes going larger is just not an option any more lol. Since my stallion, Lotus T is 17.2H and definitely throws size and substance, I ran I to the same problem when looking for stallions for his daughters. However when you breed horses that are so different in size and blood lines, the likelihood of getting the awkward end of the breeding gamble. I decided to purchase Caligula II, a Holsteiner Verband approved stallion, who is 16.1H and who’s pedigree is very compatible to the bloodlines of my Lotus T daughters. Caligula II is also a compact, powerful type stallion, as opposed to Lotus T’s tall, leggy, longer lines![/QUOTE]
Thanks for this information
It is a fairly common type of cross, as stated before. I am thinking that it will continue to increase in popularity.
One of the young horses I am riding is a Welsh(section b) Hanoverian cross. His sire was 12.3, dam 15.3(by a Grande son out of a Pik Bube daughter.). He sticks at 14h and is truly a little Maserati. I am excited to see what he himself throws…the 3 mares he has been crossed on this year are a 17.3 appendix, 14.1 purebred Arab, and a 14.3 cob mare.
KWPN does give a height statistic on their stallions that is helpful. I agree with others, that I’d make this not the main point of selecting a stallion, but one of the points. Look for a stallion that complements your mare so that you get what you want out of it. If you just want guaranteed height, better to buy a smaller horse unfortunately as breeding is not guaranteed anything. You can see stamping in stallions and that is your best guess. Lots of good smaller producing stallions out there.
Kathy
[QUOTE=DownYonder;8486582]
I think it is well understood amongst experienced breeders that to downsize a BIG WB mare, the breeder should be looking at purebred stallions from a smaller breed - in particular, Welsh Ponies and maybe even small Arabians.
However, this presents a challenge for breeders who want to register the foal with a WB registry. There aren’t many Arabian stallions approved for warmblood breeding - and some registries don’t accept them at all. And Welsh pony stallions are only approved for pony breeding - not for WB breeding.[/QUOTE]
I just wanted to add that, although breeding to purebred pony stallions will not get a foal pink warmblood papers, pony stallions approved with the major warmblood registries will still allow the foals to be registered with the warmblood registries. 
Both of our Welsh pony stallions are approved RPSI, German Westphalian Verband, ISR/Oldenburg and one of the stallions also approved with Oldenburg GOV. The resulting foals out of warmblood mares get placed in their German Riding Pony/Sport Pony stud books and are still eligible for pink papers and branding/microchipping.
[QUOTE=3rottenponies;8676835]
It is a fairly common type of cross, as stated before. I am thinking that it will continue to increase in popularity.
One of the young horses I am riding is a Welsh(section b) Hanoverian cross. His sire was 12.3, dam 15.3(by a Grande son out of a Pik Bube daughter.). He sticks at 14h and is truly a little Maserati. I am excited to see what he himself throws…the 3 mares he has been crossed on this year are a 17.3 appendix, 14.1 purebred Arab, and a 14.3 cob mare.[/QUOTE]
I bred my 15.3 hand tb mare to a 11 hand Sec A welsh pony and the baby is now almost 14 hands!! ( he is 3 this year and I don’t think he will grow anymore)
I am repeating the cross this year because I love the baby so much and also because I am curious what size I will get. I have had a lot of people say they had full crosses come out to be all different sizes. So I could get a bit bigger, but ideally would like a bit smaller for a top,of the line medium.
I am still looking for a GRP or bigger welsh to possibly breed her to next year and get a 15-16 hand horse for myself.
If I could get a 15.3 hand version of my 3 year old welsh I would be in heaven!!!
It is so much better to do this the way you plan to than to breed a small mare to a big stallion.
Carol Lush, may she rest in peace, did this so well in PA with her pony stallion.
[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;8476467]
A maiden mare often throws small, or not, if that helps :)[/QUOTE]
Not always
My 14.3 H maiden mare was bred to a 16.1H stallion. Her filly at 10 months is almost her size (just under 14H). I am hoping the filly will mature to about 16H, most of the stallions lineage is around that height.
But since she’s a keeper, I guess I get what I get :yes:
