Holsteiners are named as follows:
Colts have the first letter of their sire’s name but using any part of the stallion’s name is discouraged.
Fillies have a letter assigned to their year of birth. This year it is the letter “H.”
Similar to the KWPN and GOV…but both colts and fillies use the first letter of the stallion’s name…sexist still. :lol:
Didn’t the Traks have a naming convention where they used the first letter of the DAM’s name?
Yes, Traks use the first letter of dam’s name. Oldenburg is sire’s first letter for colts, mare’s first letter for fillies, to follow a mareline (although the option to register with the sire’s first letter is there).
[QUOTE=ThistleDewDressage;8089022]
My mare is Hanoverian, she is registered and approved Hanoverian, when I was stallion shopping I made a ton of phone calls, Pretty much all the registries will allow me to breed her to an approved stallion of their registry and register the offspring even without presenting her in person to that registry.[/QUOTE]
I have been working very closely with OHBS/GOV for 15 years (I founded and published their magazine for 7 years, and have organized the GA inspection for the past 14 years).
OHBS/GOV requires ALL mares to be inspected, as well as the foals, before the foal can be registered. They allow you to present the mare ahead of time - before the foal is born - or at the same inspection as the foal - but she must be inspected and approved into one of their mare books before the foal can receive registration papers. If the mare is not in one of their mare books, the foal can receive only a COP - not regular registration papers.
They do allow you to breed to an outside sire (not approved by OHBS/GOV but approved by certain other registries recognized by OHBS/GOV), but the requirements for mare and foal inspection is the same. And in the case of using an outside sire, it is very much recommended - almost imperative - that the sire be “pre-approved” through the office before the foal’s inspection, to avoid situations where the sire’s approval status is not recognized by the registry. IOW, not all stallions approved by certain other registries meet Oldenburg’s pedigree and performance requirements, therefore the foal would only be eligible for a COP at best (if the mare isn’t in one of the mare books, and the stallion’s approval status isn’t recognized by OHBS/GOV, they would not even give the foal a COP).
As for naming conventions - as others have mentioned - for OHBS/GOV, colt names must have the same first letter as their sire. Filly names can have the same first letter of the sire or the dam. Many Oldenburg breeders in Germany like to honor their mare lines by naming the fillies after the dam line, and many breeders in NA do the same.
Thanks for all the input and answers. This is not easy.
I want Baby B to have the first part of her daddy’s name (Baloubet du Rouet) but, the AHHA is not an arm of the German Holst. registry, and if it is a colt, evidently it should be registered with a group that will give it German papers, because we will not know at birth if he deserves to be kept entire, and German registries do not acknowledge (?) the AHHA.
If Baby B is a she, then Holstein name would start with an H.
A Oldenburg name would start with a P or a C (Parlay/Call Me by Cassini I).
A KWPN name would start with a K.
A sBs name would start with an H or I (depending on how many letters it does not use – I went cross eyed trying to find that out).
A BWP name would atart with a P.
A SF name would start with a F.
Maybe I should just start the registered name with whatever letter the chosen registry requires and then name Baby B with a name I like? I have been scanning HorseTelex and it seems that some people register a name according to the proper protocol, and then use an “Alias” or “AKA” for the name the horse is known by.
I have not yet figured out, though, if a name is taken by (e.g.) an Oldenburg, can I use the exact same name for a (e.g.) sBs registered horse?
I have been involved in TB breeding for decades, and we just name a horse [almost] anything we feel like.
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8091004]
If Baby B is a she…A Oldenburg name would start with a P or a C (Parlay/Call Me by Cassini I). [/QUOTE]
For OHBS/GOV, if the foal is by Baloubet du Rouet, out of a mare by Parlay/Cassini I, you can name a filly with a B name, or with the same first letter as her dam’s name. A colt must be a “B” name.
That would depend on sBs policies, but in general, very few of the registries care if the name is already in use in another registry. Some of them DO care if the name is already in use in THEIR registry - particularly for approved stallions. I know of one case where a colt was registered with his birth registry, USEF and USDF under one name, and shown all the way to maturity under that name, but when he was presented for stallion licensing, there was already an approved stallion by that name in the registry, so his name was officially changed to something else.
If I were in your shoes, I would give the foal a “barn name” for now, and decide on its official name at registration time.
Also bear in mind that there are already over a dozen horses named “Balou” registered with USEF, one named Balou du Rouet (and sired by Balou du Rouet), four with “Baloubet” as part of their name, and tons of others with “Balou” as part of their name, so you will probably want to come up with something unique.
Again add Shagya Arabian to the list of breeds eligible to join the Trakehner closed book.
Sorry for the confusion. I must have missed GOV when making calls. I was quite surprised that I didn’t have to present my mare to the other registries.
[QUOTE=DownYonder;8090976]
I have been working very closely with OHBS/GOV for 15 years (I founded and published their magazine for 7 years, and have organized the GA inspection for the past 14 years).
OHBS/GOV requires ALL mares to be inspected, as well as the foals, before the foal can be registered. They allow you to present the mare ahead of time - before the foal is born - or at the same inspection as the foal - but she must be inspected and approved into one of their mare books before the foal can receive registration papers. If the mare is not in one of their mare books, the foal can receive only a COP - not regular registration papers.
They do allow you to breed to an outside sire (not approved by OHBS/GOV but approved by certain other registries recognized by OHBS/GOV), but the requirements for mare and foal inspection is the same. And in the case of using an outside sire, it is very much recommended - almost imperative - that the sire be “pre-approved” through the office before the foal’s inspection, to avoid situations where the sire’s approval status is not recognized by the registry. IOW, not all stallions approved by certain other registries meet Oldenburg’s pedigree and performance requirements, therefore the foal would only be eligible for a COP at best (if the mare isn’t in one of the mare books, and the stallion’s approval status isn’t recognized by OHBS/GOV, they would not even give the foal a COP).[/QUOTE]
sBs had “I” last year and “H” the year prior. For 2015 it’s a “J” Not that it helps you any.
[QUOTE=stoicfish;8088998]
That isn’t entire true either. It wasn’t till 1940 that the “breed” was established with registration. And the breed was formed using local mares and an assortment of horses in the US including Arabs, Morgans, Canadian(breed), STB, local mares.
Now they only allow Tb’s but that wasn’t how they rolled before 1940.
And while this is partly true of many breeds, the QH allows registration of any horse of two parents. They trusted people in remote locations to be honest about the parents. But I know that was not always the case and many horses were registered that were not full QH. That is true with any breed but the QH was not as uniform and regulated as many breeds that have a very distinct type and an established breeding culture.
The Qh is often referred to as a warmblood, ironically.
Traks est. 1732
Hanoverian est. 1735
Holsteiner est 1891
As stated, Wb’s did not traditionally use many breeds. That is a NA version.[/QUOTE]
FWIW, the Dutch Warmbllod registry for ridden horses was not founded until the mid 20th century, considerably younger than the QH. The Dutch WB difinitely DID “use many breeds”
The closest US analog to the German Warmblood registry would be the Army Remount Sertvice. But that was discontinued when the Army demand for cavalry horses declined.
It is my understanding that, when the Quarter Horse breed was first established (for several years), a horse had to meet TWO of the THREE criteria.
A - has two registered Quarter Horse parents
B- LOOKS like a Quarter Horse (conformation inspection)
C - PERFORMS like a Quarter Horse (1/4 mile racing times, barrel racing, roping, etc.
So the offspring of 2 QH who didn’t LOOK like a Quarter Horse, and did not have performance results, could NOT be registered.
But a horse of ANY breeding who looked like a QH, and had performance results, COULD be registered
[QUOTE=Janet;8096442]
FWIW, the Dutch Warmbllod registry for ridden horses was not founded until the mid 20th century, considerably younger than the QH. The Dutch WB difinitely DID “use many breeds”
The closest US analog to the German Warmblood registry would be the Army Remount Sertvice. But that was discontinued when the Army demand for cavalry horses declined.
It is my understanding that, when the Quarter Horse breed was first established (for several years), a horse had to meet TWO of the THREE criteria.
A - has two registered Quarter Horse parents
B- LOOKS like a Quarter Horse (conformation inspection)
C - PERFORMS like a Quarter Horse (1/4 mile racing times, barrel racing, roping, etc.
So the offspring of 2 QH who didn’t LOOK like a Quarter Horse, and did not have performance results, could NOT be registered.
But a horse of ANY breeding who looked like a QH, and had performance results, COULD be registered[/QUOTE]
I should have clarified in my earlier post about QHs etc: should have said the development of MODERN QHs and WBs, i.e., since mid-20th century. Since that time, QHs, regardless of type/specialization, have been developed using only QHs and TBs. Its my understanding that most modern WBs have been/are being developed using several breeds (TBs, Arabians, others).
AQHA registers only horses of QH and TB lineage. Use of a TB carries certain stipulations–Appendix designation (one TB parent), breeding rules, offspring registration etc. Appendix horses can advance to the permanent registry if they achieve certain results (speed index, points) in recognized racing or performance.
Also wanted to add that AQHA requires DNA typing and has for years. Prior to DNA typing, the incidence of fraudulent breeding practices was probably about the same for QHs as it was for other breeds.
KWPN was 1969, so 29 years after the Qh.
More importantly, if you look at the pedigree’s they are Wb’s from the older registries.
They did not develop their own, per se, they took the best from everyone else and put them together to produce some of the best.
But they did not just develop them from Tb’s, Arabs and such. They did have local registries that recorded the pedigree’s going back to the to the 1800’s but they formed the KWPN later.
And the modern WB has been developed using mainly Tb’s also. There have been a few pivotal Arabs but those can be counted on one hand. Remember the AA breed is not the same as an Arab crossed with a TB. And even those are few and far apart, important never the less.
Also, once again, there was directed breeding by a few educated individuals adding outside blood and traditionally, the average breeder had less input in making those decisions. Qh, really have been developed by a huge range of types, and breeding philosophies.
You can not say that the Qh is a uniform breed and that the WB is a random genetic group that was recently formed. The stallion selection process has really limited and shaped them.
In the past week I have come up with several more questions that I hope someone can answer.
-
Do all/some registries require DNA typing? If so, which registries are they? If not, how can a registry be sure that the horses are who they say they are (I guess this would mainly apply to mares).
-
Does a mare have to be approved into the main mare book (or the highest level of approval given) for the offspring to be approved at the highest level? I guess I am thinking of a colt who might be worthy of being denoted a “stallion prospect” but can’t be because the dam has only been recognized for a lower level registration.
And a corrollary to 2. : Must a stallion have been approved as a “stallion prospect” as a suckling for it to go through a stallion licensing at ages 3 - 5? Or can anyone with a male horse who was inspected as a suckling (and who wants to pay the $$) attend a 100 day testing?
(I realize I can probably find the answers by checking every registry, but I am hoping that some people will know this stuff already)
Thanks!
There is no more 100dt. It is now 70 days with a 30 day option, held at Silver Creek Farm - who organizes the test. It is a SERVICE provided to the stallion owners… the organizers of the test do not approve, license or do anything other than organize the test, host it, and provide the testing management & staff. Anybody with a checkbook can send their stallion through the test.
DNA testing is required with the AHS. All foals are DNA tested, parentage verified.
A stallion prospect does not have to be designated a stallion prospect as a foal. The Society will take an informal look at your 2yo colt, and give you feedback as to whether they think it might be shaping up into something that should be presented at a licensing down the road, but you don’t have to do that either.
For the AHS, to send a colt forward to the AHS licensing, you have some pedigree eligibility verification that has to take place with the office, and an extensive set of radiographs have to be taken and sent to Rood & Riddle for evaluation from a panel of their vets before he can be presented. At the end of licensing there is a vet exam immediately following, and blood pulled and a drug screen performed.
Because whatever is licensed and approved here has full reciprocity with Germany, one of the Verband’s stallion judges attends, and is on the judges’ panel at each AHS licensing.
A colt is licensed for two years only. Full approval comes after the licensing, once the colt has completed the performance requirements satisfactorily.
I know that for GOV, the babies can’t be premiums unless the dam is Main Mare Book. That said, I recently had one of my mares inspected whose dam was put in the Mare Book because of short stature. The daughter was made Main Mare Book and very much liked by the inspector.
For Oldenburg (OHBS/GOV) -
- Do all/some registries require DNA typing? If so, which registries are they? If not, how can a registry be sure that the horses are who they say they are (I guess this would mainly apply to mares).
Parentage verification via DNA comparison is mandatory in order for a foal to receive registration papers.
- Does a mare have to be approved into the main mare book (or the highest level of approval given) for the offspring to be approved at the highest level? I guess I am thinking of a colt who might be worthy of being denoted a “stallion prospect” but can’t be because the dam has only been recognized for a lower level registration.
Sport Arab is correct - foals must be from MMB dams in order to receive the “premium foal” award. The registry also has a “Foal of Distinction” award, which can be awarded to foals whose dams are in any book. In addition, colt foals must be from MMB dams to receive the “stallion prospect” designation.
And a corrollary to 2. : Must a stallion have been approved as a “stallion prospect” as a suckling for it to go through a stallion licensing at ages 3 - 5? Or can anyone with a male horse who was inspected as a suckling (and who wants to pay the $$) attend a 100 day testing?
A stallion does not have to have been designated as a stallion prospect as a foal, in order to attend an Oldenburg stallion licensing. However, the stallion’s pedigree must be pre-approved through the office before the licensing event. In general, a stallion must hold regular registration papers (not a COP), and be out of a MMB dam, whose dam was also in the MMB. The stallion does not necessarily have to registered with Oldenburg, nor do the sire, dam and 2nd dam have to be from the Oldenburg registry, but they must meet all pedigree criteria as outlined in the rule book. IOW, they must be registered / approved with registries with full recognition from Oldenburg - this includes most of the German Verbands, KWPN, AHS, and certain other European registries such as Danish WB and Swedish WB. TB dams are also considered, as long as they have been approved into the MMB of a recognized WB registry.
As far as the performance test goes, the stallion does not have to have been designated a premium foal to attend the SPT, nor does he have to already be licensed by OHBS/GOV. As AHF stated, the NA SPT held in Oklahoma is completely independent from the registries.
