British Kennel Club--new show rules against "deformed" dogs

I wish the breed ring wasn’t so political, it’s not what you know, it’s who you know. If judges would quit rewarding extremes, they would slowly die out. I feel the same about Arabians & dished heads - they’re starting to look like sea-horses.

You can’t tell me that Crufts judge felt that was BOB, much less BIS. My guess is the owner/breeder/handler is a big shot & he was rewarded, not the dog.

GSD is my breed & I hate seeing a dog like that win. Mine was a bit of a crook in his tail, really debating on showing, much less breeding. The rest of him is pretty darn good…

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I assume that’s your boy in your profile pic? He’s lovely.

But ti’s not like she never won anything before Crufts. I don’t know a lot about UK shows, but certainly she had a winning show record. http://www.cruaghaire.co.uk/catoria.html I don’t know if her BIS at Crufts was a shock, but it’s not like she had never won a BOB before.

There is politics in the dog show world, but judges can only judge what is in front of them. I doubt that you would find a GSD ring in the U.S. where any of the dogs looked very different from Rumor, the Westminster BIS. (I mean, obviously Rumor is apparently better than most of them - but they all have extreme angulation, sloping back, etc.) It’s not just judges putting up the one dog with “bad” conformation because of a big name handler.

Have nothing to add but following with interest as my family had GSDs when I was a kid - well bred ones too, although we never bred or showed them. This was in the '70s-'90s. I cannot remember ever having one with a back like that! In fact I remember one sweet older guy we had who would let me use him as a “table” for my tea set :winkgrin:

GSD people, what is the point or justification for that “look”?? Apologies if that was answered and I missed it.

Yes , it is. Thank you, he’s a wonderful boy.

Very true. I actually like Rumor. I think that angulation is somewhat subjective. I could stack my boy so that he’s look severely angulated, when in fact he is not. But that look wins. The Crufts dog? Deformed. I can critique my dog, he’s not perfect; crook in tail, one front paw not as tight as I like. But overall, pretty nice. He free stacks really nicely, but if I try, I can stack him where hock goes fairly flat. He’s not comfortable & moves it, but I can make him look awful.

GSDs have different “lines”, depending on the country of origin and breeding stock. I think the dog at Crufts is what’s considered “West German Show Line” (someone please correct me if I’m wrong). The German dogs are usually red and black, look heavier overall and shorter in the back. The American Show Line has a long straight back - see Rumor the Westminster winner. They are usually colored more like RinTinTin. IMHO,the show lines are kind of the equivalent of halter bred Arabians or QH. It’s all about the gait - they want to see a floaty, ground-covering trot and the extreme angulation in the hocks and pasterns and sloping long hip contribute to that. There are also “working lines” - mostly dogs of East German and Czech descent. These dogs are bred for performance, and won’t win in the confirmation ring. But they can be very high drive and might not fit in as a mellow family pet.

Another thing to note is that in the confirmation ring, the tradition is to “stack” a GSD so as to show off the angles of the shoulders, hips, and hocks. This requires setting the one rear leg under the body, and one extended. This is a lot different than the square or stretched out stacks that the other breeds use, where the legs are parallel. The hips kind of roll under, and can make it look like the dog is practically crippled. I’ve seen photos of dogs that looked terribly roach-backed in a stack, but standing normally they look fine.

Every time the “Crippled GSD” discussion comes up, someone always mentions how dogs “back in the day” didn’t look like that. I’m not so sure they are right (at least about what was in the show ring). Lockenhaus German Shepherds, who bred Rumor has a “history” page with ASL dogs from over the past 30 years or so.

http://www.lockenhausgermanshepherds.com/other-past-dogs.html

Scroll down to the bottom slideshow and look at Mandy in her show portrait from 1978 (I think). She looks a lot like a modern ASL.

The biggest difference I can see between the dogs from the 80’s and Rumor is that Rumor’s pastern is longer and more angled. I’m sure that contributes to her movement. You can see how breeding for that angulation might lead to selection of dogs that are TOO angled to actually function normally - that’s how you wind up with the weak-pasterned, sickle hocked trainwrecks. Also referred to as “hock-walkers” if they can’t trot out correctly.

Speaking of function… Check out Lockenhaus’ Ch. Charger. He’s out of the same dam as Rumor, he’s won his Championship, and now he’s doing agility. There’s an actual picture of him in action.

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My boys sire: http://www.harmoniagsd.com/meeko.html His free pictures aren’t as extreme as his stacked/show pictures. I just re-looked & some of his puppy pics, he’s flatter than a pancake - but seemed to have grown out of it.

I remember the same comments back in the 80’s when I was going to shows a lot. I don’t think they’ve changed all that much - but extreme anything tends to win. Until it’s proven to be an issue. Then it slowly swings back the other way.

The average person probably doesn’t want German/European bred GSD’s. They tend to have a way higher prey drive, and most people aren’t equipped to deal properly with it. But they want a GSD & hear all the bad things about ASL, they go for German bred. Then those dogs end up in a shelter. I see it way to often. I’ve had GSD’s my whole life & I don’t really want German bred. I had one that was 1/2 G & 1/2 ASL. He was almost too much for our lifestyle. The next two were ASL, and I’ve not had any hip/shoulder/back problems at all. May be just luck.

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Cindy, he can come for a sleepover at my house anytime :slight_smile:

That’s funny you mention that about the ASL and hip issues. I think the reputable American breeders are really working to clean up the gene pool. My rescue ASL of unknown origin has perfectly fine hips and elbows. (His skin issues OTOH…). I have a colleague who sought out German lines, and yep, both his dogs had hip dysplasia at a very young age.

So far, no issues, happy, healthy puppy. Really he’s it stays this way.