No one has evented in Ontario in a while so that would be my guess why, it was also super hot and the ground hard.
Bromont is also quite hilly, is it not? Makes time & fitness tough.
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Agree with this position. This kind of action must violate some standard of fair play. Although event secretaries have some discretion to refuse entries, or to ballot, that isn’t the same as simply not having entries open to all.
Rules of Eventing, 2021, D118:
1.5 To refuse an entry – In addition to entries of persons suspended or expelled from the federation, a recognized competition may refuse any entry of an exhibitor, rider, owner, agent, trainer or coach who has shown objectionable attitude or behaviour at a Recognized competition which management is able to substantiate. At National Championships, the Organizer may not refuse a qualified entry. Exception: See the Rules of Equestrian Canada, Section A, Article A805 Refusal or Limitation of Entries.
Here’s Article A805:
ARTICLE A805 REFUSAL OR LIMITATION OF ENTRIES
1.Entries must be refused for members not in good standing.2.Except as provided in Article A805.1, a competition may not refuse entries in the following cases: a) to a class open to horses in a geographically-specified area; b) to a class where the award offered is a challenge trophy, and the competitor in question is in contention for the trophy; c) to a class whose placings count towards eligibility for any regional, provincial, national or international final or championship; d)to an athlete who is otherwise eligible to compete at a national team trial; and e)to any athlete who is otherwise eligible to compete after reinstatement of sport eligibility pursuant to the Canadian Policy on Doping in Sport.
Other than as specified in Article A805.2, a competition may reserve the right to refuse an entry providing the reason for refusal is clearly stated in the prize list (see Article A805.4). Refer to Article A603.2(b) – Event Specific Information. For Eventing competitions, see Article D118; for Hunter Jumper Equitation rules, see G301.8.
A competition may require a horse or rider/driver to win a certain number of ribbons at national competitions to qualify for entry or may set a limit as to the number of entries that will be accepted in any division or class. These conditions must be stated in the prize list.
A competition may limit the number of horses entered by an owner or the number of horses ridden/driven by a rider/driver. These conditions must be stated in the prize list.
No points for regional, provincial, national or international finals, circuits, or championships may be earned in restricted classes.
So it appears that organizers, in general, can’t refuse entries unless the refusal is based on a member not being in good standing or member’s proven bad behaviour; too many horses; not qualified for the class (championship); bad behaviour; OR the reason is listed in the prize list.
But, that doesn’t address this issue - only opening entries to select individuals. It seems to me that if an organizer wants to do that, unless it’s approved in advance and stated in the prize list (e.g. the young riders’ championships are obviously only open to young riders), they should not be able to run an EC or FEI sanctioned competition.
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Many of us want to go back to normal - which includes not having 10-30 people die from Covid in our province every day. Maybe where you live that seems like a low number, but some of us feel like those lives have value and it’s worth a bit of sacrifice to keep others safe.
And things ARE getting back to normal. Patios opened up this weekend and every seat was full in my neighbourhood. Beaches and parks were busy with people safely enjoying themselves in the fresh air. Horse shows are starting back up again. As vaccination rates rise and second doses are being rescheduled earlier, we’re moving closer to having indoor dining and salons open within a few weeks.
However, not sure what any of this is to do with the cancelled / not cancelled / secret / not secret CCI at Bromont? There is plenty of discussion about vaccination, masks, and more in Current Events and you’re welcome to join us there
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And ECs refusal to address it for the contact I was directed to to just brush off the question multiple times tells us everything we already knew.
They did open entries, they just made sure not to tell anyone but the chosen ones lol
All the riders thought they were super smart too, not a soul posted about it or the prep on social media until they were already there or done the competition. They all knew well in advance and were told to keep quiet. Pretty messed up. Disappointed in our governing bodies big time.
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The very definition of entries not being “open”…
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Also I don’t find Bromont hilly at all. Compared to the Ontario events it’s pretty flat. Might be one hill out back but that’s it.
I must admit to following this situation with a sort of casualness, because it doesn’t affect me and I was thinking it would all make sense if I just waited for a bit. But could someone clear something up for me? Everyone keeps saying this:
But I went back through the thread thinking my reading for comprehension was messed up these days and saw all of this:
Was it actually only open to some people? The posts immediately above don’t seem to imply exclusion to me. It wasn’t actually invite-only or private entry, right? The whole issue is just that it opened and closed, publicly, but fairly quickly? They posted it on the national schedule, you could enter through EventEntries like always, and it doesn’t sound like anyone was turned away.
While obviously the execution is far from ideal (for everyone, presumably very much including the organizers), things are changing at the speed of light right now in a COVID world and people are just trying to keep their heads above water. This is starting to read to me less like a secret private party and more like something that was just thrown together hastily, in a something-is-better-than-nothing sort of way, and not everyone got the memo. It’s obviously very disappointing for people who missed the window, but it doesn’t sound like they denied anyone the chance to run if they entered through the very standard and public entry website. Am I missing something?
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It was not public. The public believed Bromont CCI and Little Bromont were cancelled.
The original entry is from when they had it still open hoping to have it on the original date and invite US entries and thus the thread started…
Lady B found the event had opened after it closed. But it was only on the EC site and that’s not the site people would use normally to check, we use the Ontario or Quebec site (normally) and it was on the site AFTER on that calendar after it closed.
Also some events are listed on EC that are cancelled so nothing is even accurate there which EC is notorious for. Just search rider results and see how many results are wrong.
It was found by pure chance… and thus the can of worms open.
I mean, if you wanted to do a CCI on June 12 and didn’t know it existed would you be checking the National calendar every day to make sure you found an FEI to enter and then could enter and be ready to enter in 3 days and ready to compete in 2 weeks?
These riders have been prepping for a while from what I can see.
Also this isn’t the entry website. It’s ECs website for rules etc but you don’t enter there. We use event entries or compete easy or start box.
Does anyone know who was judging the dressage? I’m curious because the two judges were consistently about 5% apart. Something is wrong there…
The Bromont Website itself still said cancelled and no date changes. I had posted on their facebook page asking for ride times with crickets for answers. They didn’t even post on their OWN page to advise it was open or running. You don’t think that’s a little weird?
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Yes exactly. Bromonts own website had it posted it was cancelled lol. Not a peep from anyone, including EN.
I mean…yeah, I probably would. If I had been planning on entering “original” Bromont, my horse and I would be pretty much ready by the time they cancelled. At that point I think I would be working pretty hard to find an alternative place to run my fit horse.
The EC stuff sounds confusing, but then again everything about EC always sounds confusing to me. It definitely sounds like it was a scramble, and communication was clearly far from ideal. I can imagine exactly how disappointing how difficult that is for people who are excited to get out there. Hopefully you guys start to open up soon and things are a bit easier soon!
I know - one of the other things I quoted was a screenshot of the event on Event Entries. That’s where the (public) live scoring was - wasn’t that where people entered?
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I think the point is, you had to know to go there to enter, and who goes scrolling thru looking to see if an event is taking entries that has been publicly announced that they are cancelling? Not most logical people.
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Of course. I definitely wasn’t saying the communication was well done, I’m just not sure there was the nefarious intent people are worrying about here. Our sport has been hit hard by COVID, and people are struggling just to do what they can. Bromont is a fabulous event, and it’s tough to see them getting raked over the coals for doing something when they could have done nothing for far less effort. Riders, organizers, owners - everyone is just trying to stay above water at this point. As long as people are being safe about it and respecting the safety of the communities they are in, I’m not willing to condemn anyone doing what they have to do right now.
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Think about it this way, they knew how to announce to everyone far and wide that they were cancelling. If they wanted entries from everyone they could have used that same system to communicate that they changed their mind on the cancelling and please people enter.
If what they did not was intentionally sneaky they sure went above and beyond in making it look sneaky.
Edit to add: Those are the thoughts of an outsider who has nothing to do with this event.
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Yes they entered on event entries, but how in the world would you know if it was open for entries unless you checked daily?
Why would you check daily when media outlets said it was cancelled, Little Bromont was cancelled and it was the same weekend. The Bromont website said it was cancelled. The eventing groups for Quebec Eventing and the Ontario Eventing Support Group on Facebook had multiple people posting asking if Bromont was going to run and every single source found showed cancelled.
So yeah maybe you just have to check event entries every hour of the day to make sure you dont miss events your National and Provincial governing bodies are supposed to promote and encourage riders to enter.
I mean if I check daily its still not enough because I could check at noon and the entries might not be open or there until 5pm. Sounds a bit silly.
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Jo Young (at C) & John MacPherson - at least for the 3*S.
I don’t tend to be concerned when one judge is consistently lower/higher, as long as they are consistent.
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Its a slippery slope. Imagine events in the future start being limited to entries but instead of doing it first come first serve or lottery draw - they pick who they want to come and their friends.
You would be ok with that for the sport going forward?
