I would shop in eventing-land. Depending on where you live, it may be worth shopping out of area. I am in New England where everything is expensive and found horse shopping in the mid-Atlantic far more friendly on my budget and ability to see a ton of horses in a few days. There are plenty of people there that dabble in a little of this and a little of that and have safe but perhaps less fancy mounts. Diane Crump would likely know of something.
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Packer definition sort of limits the challenging ride definition. Not trying to be argumentative just what Iāve seen with friends that are shopping and what comes in the ring when Iām judging locally.
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Iām not saying challenging as in green or naughty or anything I just meant āmore challengingāĀ as in not a babysitter. Like something that wonāt be forgiving of beginner stuff and maybe that you have to set up for changes and leads. Or at least thatās what I think of when I hear āpackerāĀ.
May I ask why this particular age range? There are a lot of super amazing packers who are 14+ who would tick a lot of your boxes, and likely with a smaller price tag than the same horse in the 8-10 year old range.
It seems like a lot of people want a horse thatās 8-12, and wonāt even look at a horse thatās 13+, when that horse might fit their bill exactly.
I would suggest you perhaps might want to consider opening up to the 14+ year olds who are solid citizens, you can find ones that are pretty darn sound and ready to teach.
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Oh, I know, I love older schoolmasters! I would totally consider a 14 yo, just figured I needed to put a range so I picked 13.
As I mentioned in my OP, I will most likely not be able to afford a both a retiree and a riding horse in the next 10 years. So the age range is my best attempt to get as many good years as possible before retirement. Horses being horses, Iām sure Iāll find a lovely 9 yo who then needs to retire early!
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A lot depends what part of the country you live in. Both coastsā¦the price goes up. Lower mid-west, better prices. Donāt count out Canada if thatās close to where you live. On the west coast, the horse youāre looking for easily will be 50K or more.
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PNW. I found my guy locally through trainer word-of-mouth. Heās regionally-fancy/competitive, big, handsome, WB, walks over 3 feet, has all the buttons. 13 yo, but has hock arthritis, very early KS, and consequently needs a good bit of maintenance and will in all likelihood be retired before 20. I consider him a packer/confidence-builder for me because he will always jump the jump, but heās not unflappable, and while he doesnāt hold a grudge about it, he will get reasonably offended when I really screw something up. 20-35k.
Depends on the TB! Have ridden some that are total delights, some that require a finesse but are honest souls, and some that were. . . not honest. I am certainly not ruling them out. Not ruling out any horse that fits my main criteria! In the past I have definitely noticed that TBs with a good number of show miles are much less expensive than seemingly comparable WBs. The number of TBs that are schooling/showing above 3ā is (seems?) more limited. However, I bet that thatās more because I usually browsed HJ ads for fun. I assume the event/foxhunt markets will be more diverse.
Iāll also add it depends on what you are willing to accept on a PPE. I got my unicorn for less than 1/2 of his original price because he flexes poorly on one fetlock (this was after many people vetted him at the higher price). Consensus from my vets (including NB) was that if he is doing his job (he was actually doing WAY above what I will ever do) it was not a āno goā. It was no haggling- the owner said - here are the xrays (I still did my own), this is what other vets said, heās in your price range because of XYZ (oh- he is also pretty obnoxious on the ground- we are working on thatā¦)
Heāll never win in the hunters (heās a jumper) but he is brave and kind. I can take him anywhere and he will carry me around. I literally can close my eyes on the way to a scary fence and he will just find it (I have pictures from WEC where I did just that 
) So to give rough figures- he was priced at 50 prior to vettings, heās 7 but had been the jumper winner at big A shows with a pro. He had carted around a few potential ammies that were interested.
Again- he was only in my price range (and it still gave me heartburn) because of the vetting. I used to do the AOs, now Iāll be happy if I show in the meter. I just had him in KY and he cruised around the .80-85s with me, no trainer prep. I am prepared to do maintenance on him to keep him happy and feeling good. Honestly- he would have been sold for a higher price eventually even with his vetting because he is just that kind of guy. It just took the right situation.
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I know a number of OTTBs who did the makeover last year and are now showing 3ā and 3ā3āĀ with a lead change in the Midwest. Iād call most of them packers. The ones I know that are for sale you could easily get for $20k.
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Also, harder to shop in Europe so US horses are more expensive. Longer time frame to import as well. My barn is still buying horses in Europe but itās a bit of a crapshoot since you canāt try them before buying. As someone else said, kids loving online school because they can do school and shows without āmissingāĀ school days so lots of US demand. Most people in higher run come brackets have not really been affected by Covid.
This is super interesting to me. My instinct is that any horse that has basically a year? 18 months? of total jumping experience is not going to be experienced enough to be a packer at 3ā. Not that I would think they werenāt physically capable - if theyāre jumping around 3ā3āĀ then theyāre jumping around 3ā3āĀ - more just that I canāt imagine that theyāve really had enough miles to be a savvy packer.
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I think the definition of a packer (at least where I am) is precisely that: a babysitter. Auto-leads, finds the distance when you canāt, takes a joke, etc. I wouldnāt use the word packer to describe a horse that isnāt forgiving or needs a ton of setup/prep.
I also agree with OP that a horse jumping for about a year is probably not a packer. They need time and miles to get there. Itās what makes them so valuable. Someone has invested in a lot of showing and training to get them to the āseeing eye-horseāĀ stage.
FWIW, 3ā packers around here tend to go for $40K plus, assuming itās a WB under the age of 15 and taller than 16.1. There are deals to be had when youāre flexible on height, age, and breed.
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Lady in my barn wanted a 2ā6"-3ā horse, already showing, with changes, good mover, 6-13 years old, 15.3+, preferably not TB, that would vet wellā¦on a $20K max budget. Poor trainer.
I hate the āpackerā description. You are going to get offered horses that are short strided or have been used up on poor-riding leases. You know what makes a difficult ride IMO? One that has a shortish stride that canāt get you out of trouble in the lines. The last horse I bought is only 16 hands, a little Oldenberg, but wow what a stride that boy has. He is the easiest horse Iāve ever owned if I just sit still, leave his mouth alone, and let him do his job.
I am 68 and usually have two or three riding horses, plus my ones that I have retired. Iāve had some experience shopping for easy horses, which is all I want these days. You want a horse with plenty of stride, and from there you have to decide whether you want a hang on to the mouth ride or a donāt touch the reins ride. Both types can be āpackersā depending on your riding preference. The main thing is something that does not make you fearful, i.e., no buck, bolt, or dramatic spook. Itās all about temperament, I think. The key words I look for are āsafeā and ākindā. I would mainly look at show records, preferably from a USEF search. I would definitely include a fairly easy lead change in my definition of packer. I see way more classes lost because of bad changes than bad jumps.
To me, the best bang for the buck would be a horse with a decent jump that doesnāt necessarily have to be pretty or win the hack. Those last two are what bumps the price up. With that criteria, I would expect to find something in those Mid 5ās ads.
Eventers are great, I have an ex-eventer who is the safest most reliable boy! I did have to do some retraining to get him to go forward from the leg and not a lot of seat, and to Un-dressage him to get his overall carriage loosened up.
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I hate the āpackerā description. You are going to get offered horses that are short strided or have been used up on poor-riding leases. You know what makes a difficult ride IMO? One that has a shortish stride that canāt get you out of trouble in the lines. The last horse I bought is only 16 hands, a little Oldenberg, but wow what a stride that boy has. He is the easiest horse Iāve ever owned if I just sit still, leave his mouth alone, and let him do his job.
I am 68 and usually have two or three riding horses, plus my ones that I have retired. Iāve had some experience shopping for easy horses, which is all I want these days. You want a horse with plenty of stride, and from there you have to decide whether you want a hang on to the mouth ride or a donāt touch the reins ride. Both types can be āpackersā depending on your riding preference.
To me, the best bang for the buck would be a horse with a decent jump that doesnāt necessarily have to be pretty or win the hack. Those last two are what bumps the price up. With that criteria, I would expect to find something in those Mid 5ās ads.
Finally, donāt buy a horse without a decent lead change. For a made horse, go to the usef records, and see if it has a consistent record over fences at the height you want.
Eventers are great, I have an ex-eventer who is the safest most reliable boy! I did have to do some retraining to get him to go forward from the leg and not a lot of seat, and to Un-dressage him to get his overall carriage loosened up.
For what you want, I would absolutely expand your age range into the early teens. There is a jumper at my barn still taking people around the 1.0 at age 22 (we donāt tell him thatās how old he is, he has no idea!). When I shopped for my adult hunter this winter, I was actually targeting the 10-13 y/oās. So of course I ended up with an 8 year old :lol: With all that can be done for maintenance now, I think you can keep them comfortably going for longer than used to be the case (as a generalization).
Not sure what part of the country you are in, but if you are on FB or Instagram, follow Picturesque Farm in VA - Kristy sells a lot of types of horses at fair price points, and it can give you an idea of what you can get at the various price points. And if you are near there, it could be a good shopping option for you. https://picturesquefarm.com/ Lots of their sale horses never make it to their website, however - they sell more quickly than she can post them there.
I think the prices here are high for someone that wants safe, but doesnāt need fancy. Especially if youāre willing to pay for regular pro rides.
A big part of being a packer is temperament. Those horses are usually easy to train, and take a joke as babies. Donāt be afraid to look at 6/7 yoās that are advertised as quiet. We bought my moms packer when he was 4, heās 17 now. He goes the exact same way, quiet, no stop, auto change, takes a joke. His 4yo sale video looks the same as his 17yo show video. She doesnāt jump above 2ā9", but Iāve shown him up to 3ā3".
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Great point. Temperament is so important. A green/young one wonāt be a good option for me personally, but I will certainly be flexible on the age range a few years in each direction.
Thanks to all for the feedback on budget and suitability. The numbers have been super helpful, and I also have a better idea of how to describe what Iām really looking for.
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This facebook group is a dangerous place for wallets :lol: some seriously gorgeous horses there.
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