Bulk lysine?

[IPEsq]

A vet suggested upping my horse’s lysine intake. Because of his history and tendency toward muscle soreness, it was recommended trying as much as 40g/day.

I’ve calculated that between Nutramino and his TC 30%, he’s getting approx 21-22g/day.

He also gets alfalfa hay, minimum 6lbs, possibly as much as 8 depending on the size of the flakes from a given bale. It’s second cutting right now. We will get in some third cutting later on that will be what he’ll be on till next summer most likely, and in the past that farm has over 20% protein on the later cutting. I don’t know the breakdown of the protein analysis, though (don’t know how many mg/lb of lysine specifically).

The estimated protein on the last grass hay analysis I saw from local farms was between 1-2 g/lb for estimated lysine. He also eats an estimated minimum 15lbs grass hay/day (not much fresh grass, if any).

Looking at some bulk sources like UltraCruz, it takes a lot of scoops just to add another 10g.

Question: How much do you think he’s already likely eating? Seems like he’s probably well over 40g already, even if I estimate on the low side for the forage? Seems like it could be at least up to 35g even without the alfalfa hay?

[Simkie]

If I had to guess, I’d say the vet’s instructions mean 40g supplemental lysine, not total intake.

You can find bulk lysine online in a plethora of places, or packaged for horses like this one from Valley Vet.

[IPEsq]

My understanding was it was 40g total per day. The NRC guidelines for a mature, moderately working horse is around 30ish grams/day. It would take 13 scoops of the Pure Lysine product to get me a supplemental 40g!

[Simkie]

You’re already supplementing 21-22g. How about you just try doubling that for a month and see if there’s any response?

[JB]

Yes, that’s got to be 40gm total, not supplemental.

And surely he’s getting that with the amount of alfalfa he’s getting

I have seen numbers for lysine in alfalfa in the 4gm/lb range, so 6lb of that is 24gm, on top of the 20gm+ from the supplements.

If the grass hay is even 1gm/lb, then that’s another 15gm on top of that.

[JB]

And I’ve not heard of more lysine relieving muscle soreness

I would be investigating magnesium, Vit E (especially if he’s not getting much fresh grass) and selenium.

[Simkie]

JB, CO is a high Se state. Terrible idea to supplement selenium there without testing.

If this is the vet I think it might be (Pam?) she has advised me in the past to add more lysine to aid with neuro problems and pain.

IPEsq, perhaps just double your Nutramino for a month and see what you get.

[IPEsq]

[QUOTE=JB;8813801]
And I’ve not heard of more lysine relieving muscle soreness

I would be investigating magnesium, Vit E (especially if he’s not getting much fresh grass) and selenium.[/QUOTE]

Yeah…I’m not sure, just trying to do some research on her recommendations. It was my first time using this vet, though she is familiar with the majority of my horse’s vet team because she lectures at CSU. I did tell her about the 10g lysine in the HT supp but didn’t have any other numbers handy to do the math during the appointment.

He gets 8000 IU of Vit E from UltraCruz and 5g Magnesium in the HT supp, and the vet thought that was good enough. We are in a high Se area. It’s not listed on the hay report I have but it’s generally not supplemented here. There is some in the TC 30%.

He also gets 10g of MSM in the HT supp, which studies suggest help with muscle recovery.

I dunno…the more I go round and round on this the more I think it’s some secondary thing to his neck issues. But he was more willing today after getting some work done on his lower back and SI yesterday, so I dunno… More on that ongoing saga in my super long thread.

[IPEsq]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8813824]
JB, CO is a high Se state. Terrible idea to supplement selenium there without testing.

If this is the vet I think it might be (Pam?) she has advised me in the past to add more lysine to aid with neuro problems and pain.

IPEsq, perhaps just double your Nutramino for a month and see what you get.[/QUOTE]

Yes, Pam. The Nutramino is pre-mixed into his custom supplement, but for the next bucket I could ask them to up the lysine. I’ve got a ways to go in the one I have, though, so I thought it might be easy to pick up a small bag of just lysine. Reading the dosages on the bags, being in the 2-3g/serving range, is what made me start doing the math…

[JB]

@Simkie;8813824

JB, CO is a high Se state. Terrible idea to supplement selenium there without testing.

I did say “investigate”

[JB]

Pure Lysine and L-lysine are 2 straight lysine products you could get (Valley Vet has them), for pennies a serving (5-7gm) and add, instead of being “stuck” with a high lysine supplement you might not need.