Buy American

[Cumbria_Farm]

Joanne- that is a great question.

San Amour out of a Pik Labionics/Amour mare.

No one is criticizing the purchase. Merely pointing out that we are not doing a good job in reaching our elite riders. Numerous farms advertise and promote. I do, using the internet and web based “for sales” pages and Facebook. So many small breeders do also, yet frequently, we are not able to capture the market for elite performance horses.

The thread was started to promote ways for us to capture that market. What ideas do breeders have to promote our US horses? What ways can we put our horses in front of elite riders? I’m asking for ideas.

Joanne- I’m sorry my post and your question irritated someone. Please continue to post your questions and thoughts and thank you for the question.

[YankeeLawyer]

Joanne, the original post speaks for itself.

[Joanne]

Thanks for answering the bloodline question. I was just curious.

[Dressage_Diva333]

[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;5858999]
I have bought horses abroad and horses from breeders within 3 miles of my own farm. I would not criticize someone for doing just as I do - buying the best they can get at the time at the best price.[/QUOTE]

This.

[Cloverbarley]

Hey the world is a small place Everything is accessible nowadays. I originally come from Europe and used to hear all the same complaints over there as the OP is complaining about going on over here. In the UK people complain that Brits should buy British and shouldn’t be going to Belgium, Netherlands or Germany to buy horses. Those in Germany and Denmark think that their citizens shouldn’t buy from the UK or Eastern European countries. I’m sure the same probably happens in NZ and Aus.

When buying horses I’d think most buyers look closer to home and if they don’t find what they want (and don’t forget that first impressions do count) then they look further afield. And? I can’t see the problem myself.

Oh and I agree with the points Yankeelawyer made

[RunningwaterWBs]

@Cloverbarley;5859094

Oh and I agree with the points Yankeelawyer made

Me too, on all points. Although it’s tough to be a horse breeder in this economy, crying sour grapes doesn’t help anything. If we want to get horses sold, we need to do what the market requires: advertise, maintain a positive web presence, and be receptive to buyers. That means taking out ads – not just classifieds or listing horses on dreamhorse, but nice, professionally done advertisements in magazines that will get in front of our target audiences. Ads should give links to clearly-written and organized, UPDATED websites. There was a great thread on websites here not long ago, BTW. A good ad with a solid website behind it should do as much as a nice article any day of the week.

Being receptive to buyers means several things, at least to me. It means plain old responding to their inquiries politely and in a timely manner. It means listening to what they want and trying to help them with that, even if it means sending them to other breeders. It means that if they want a certain bloodline, performance potential, gender, or color, they have a right to choose these things. Lastly, while we all want good homes for the horses we produce, being receptive to buyers also means not berating potential customers to the point of rudeness about their horsekeeping.

My own experience shopping in the US was marred by problems regarding all of the things I’ve listed. I was actually shocked, in some cases, by how breeders responded to my queries, despite the fact that I was a legitimate buyer with cash in hand to purchase a very nice foal. There are some very good, very successful breeders in the US. Watch what they do and copy it to the best of your ability.

Oh, and one more thing: show your horses! Put your youngstock in breed shows, bring them to keurings/ inspections, and show your under saddle horses and broodmares during their early years. Having a lovely group of horses in a pasture is great, but buyers want to see records these days. On that note, I’m off to Devon!

[Sakura_Hill_Farm]

May I add, as an aside, that some of the biggest breeders in the Netherlands bemoan the current potential for selling in Europe and North America and are now targeting China and South America, with government support, of course!

[RiverOaksFarm]

I ask more of you to contact Dressage Today, COTH, and all other equine magazines and ask them to write articles about US breeders and our horses!

Maybe you would enjoy Warmbloods Today magazine…

I am a regular writer for them, and as a breeder myself I am very “breeder friendly” and the majority of my articles are breeding related. I’ve covered topics like frozen semen, the first 70-day stallion test, the economy and how breeders are handling it, keeping a colt as a stallion prospect, foal inspections, and more, and I’ve done dozens of interviews with breeders.

And… starting in the upcoming issue there will be the first article in what will most likely become a regular feature showcasing longtime breeders sharing about their best or favorite foal bred.

They also have good advertising rates (and there is a great special for stallion advertising right now), and the magazine is top quality and full of a variety of articles on various subjects focusing on Warmbloods and Sporthorses. I think you can never underestimate the impact a nice ad can have. It seems like a good advertising presence could reach even more people than being featured in an article.

And congratulations on your upcoming Totilas foal!

www.WarmbloodsToday.com

-Gigha

[annmcm]

The choice to purchase an American bred vs. European bred sporthorse is not an ethical or moral decision. It is based on simple economics. Buyers will go to where they can buy the best quality for the best price. If the U.S. breeders intend to be competitive in the international sporthorse market, they need to do just that!

Certainly, recent publications and marketing efforts have helped tremendously, to put American breeders in the spotlight.

[Yowsa]

I have to say I agree with YL here…why does it matter where this person purchased her foal? That is her business and she did it for reasons that matter (and rightfully) to her. It’s okay for you to buy overseas but nobody else?

Good horses sell, period. If yours aren’t time to look at marketing, pricing, and networking!

I personally do not put much merit in registries (not referencing WB registries here) that do not performance test or performance criteria - with regard to buying performance horses. If the registry isn’t designed to approve performance horses, they limit themselves to the market looking for halter horses UNTIL the owner takes it on themself to prove they have a performance horse. I don’t understand when I see, my cute foal will be an excellent performance horse, but yet the sire and dam (approved) may not have even been backed. The whole theory of proven bloodlines as an indicator goes right out the door. So yeah, if the sister registry in another country does performance test, I’d probably look for youngstock there first. So a stallion can trot on the triangle? And?

[out_west]

As a buyer currently looking I will second that marketing is a problem. I can’t count the number of hours I have spent on the internet, contacting people who don’t call back, trying to see videos (often poorly done)etc. It is a huge country, and the expense of flying and taking time off work means that you have to screen candidates by video first. I know there are many horses in our country that would suit me, I just can’t seem to find them!

[RyTimMick]

@Yowsa;5859751

I have to say I agree with YL here…why does it matter where this person purchased her foal? That is her business and she did it for reasons that matter (and rightfully) to her. It’s okay for you to buy overseas but nobody else?

Good horses sell, period. If yours aren’t time to look at marketing, pricing, and networking!

I personally do not put much merit in registries (not referencing WB registries here) that do not performance test or performance criteria - with regard to buying performance horses. If the registry isn’t designed to approve performance horses, they limit themselves to the market looking for halter horses UNTIL the owner takes it on themself to prove they have a performance horse. I don’t understand when I see, my cute foal will be an excellent performance horse, but yet the sire and dam (approved) may not have even been backed. The whole theory of proven bloodlines as an indicator goes right out the door. So yeah, if the sister registry in another country does performance test, I’d probably look for youngstock there first. So a stallion can trot on the triangle? And?

There are other ways to evaluate the ability of a horse to compete then if the sire and dam did it. Some of Holsteins best sires came out of mares that never saw a saddle, lets list a few:
Cassini I/II, Contender, Caretino, Landgraf, Carthago…

Sires must at least qualify for the Bundeschampionat or compete in GP. Good mares are too valuable in the breeding shed to be off in sport. We evaluate their production, not their individual accomplishments.

Ratina Z who competed at the top of sport has never produced anything even remotely as good as her. Neither have her clones.

Look, the fact is all buyers in America should look here first. The problem is the 200+ Holsteiners bred in America do not compare to the 4500 foals born in Holstein. Holstein consists of an area about the size of two large counties. So if you have the goods, you will need to advertise your self. Its not that there aren’t really top horses bred here, its that they are spread over an enormous country. There are plenty of bad horses in Germany, but it doesn’t take long to find a good one with a little help. You have to help the buyers focus their attention before they get frustrated and go to Europe. In the end, if they go there and find something, that hasn’t occurred.

If you have a good horse for sale and get it into the ring, it will be snagged right up. If it sits in your back yard instead of where the buyers are, it will never get noticed. It isn’t the buyers fault then, its yours.

Tim

[Yowsa]

[QUOTE=RyTimMick;5859814]
There are other ways to evaluate the ability of a horse to compete then if the sire and dam did it. Some of Holsteins best sires came out of mares that never saw a saddle, lets list a few:
Cassini I/II, Contender, Caretino, Landgraf, Carthago…

Tim[/QUOTE]

Agreed - but PERFORMANCE is there, and that is the key. I’m talking generations of halter-only or unbroke horses, and any link to performance is 3 or more generations back. And again, I was not speaking of WB registries. But I can tell you that is why a lot of people look for a horse already proven and going under saddle.

Edited to add, and frankly if I am really drawn to a foreign breed of horse (or registry), why on earth couldn’t I purchase from its home land? But because someone else had the priviledge to do just that, now I’m limited to what that person picked out, so I (note they didn’t have to) “buy American?”

[jse]

I don’t usually post in SHB but I just have to ask: Do any of you feel that it’s the lack of professionalism here in the states? And the fact that our sport leans more to the amateur side of things?
Just curious…I have friends over the pond and they can attest that people over there mean business. They’ve bought and sold more horses there in a little over a year than I have in my life! They say it’s a much different world and nothing like ours here.

[TrinitySporthorses]

I have a Totilas foal coming next year out of a multiple award winning mare, one the best SPS Hanoverian mares in the world!!! That foal has the genetic potential to be better than his sire!!

I must say, statements like that immediately turn me off and send me looking elsewhere. I’m not sure how you figure this foal could be better than Toto, since he is a bit of a freak of nature (in the best way possible, of course). None of his full siblings are as nice as him and so far, his foals (out of many of the best mares in the world) have ranged from mediocre to very nice but I haven’t seen one yet that took my breath away. I do hope yours is everything you want it to be.
I’m just saying that we must promote our horses in a way that doesn’t make potential buyers roll their eyes and think, “well this breeder thinks far too highly of her own horses- I’m sure she’ll have too many demands or too high a price.” I am not trying to attack you, I’ve seen this elsewhere- very average foals (not saying YOURS are average) advertised for ridiculous prices and the seller gushing about how incredibly fabulous they are.

As a buyer currently looking I will second that marketing is a problem. I can’t count the number of hours I have spent on the internet, contacting people who don’t call back, trying to see videos (often poorly done)etc. It is a huge country, and the expense of flying and taking time off work means that you have to screen candidates by video first. I know there are many horses in our country that would suit me, I just can’t seem to find them!

Out West, I am so sorry to hear this. It is appalling, really. I always answer emails immediately, and in great length. May I ask where you are looking at ads? Certainly I think knowing WHERE buyers are looking can help us sell but ultimately it is up to us, the breeders/sellers, to post GOOD pix, have decent video available, and to respond quickly and politely to inquiries.

I can’t tell you how many videos I’ve seen where the camera is tilted, bouncing or moving so quickly it makes you dizzy just watching it. WHAT are these people thinking?!

[Go_Fish]

[QUOTE=jse;5859844]
I don’t usually post in SHB but I just have to ask: Do any of you feel that it’s the lack of professionalism here in the states? And the fact that our sport leans more to the amateur side of things?

Just curious…I have friends over the pond and they can attest that people over there mean business. [/QUOTE]

I think this is a valid point…

I went with a friend to see a two-year-old yesterday. Not my cup of tea, but the friend really liked the horse. Owner (a fairly big breeder) said something to the effect, “now, if you buy this horse, you won’t be riding him until he’s 4, right? I don’t like any of the horses I sell to be ridden before they’re 4. It’s just too hard on them.”

Ookkaaay…

Sell the freakin’ horse already, no strings attached…it IS a business. Somehow, I don’t think European breeders are selling young stock with any mind as to what happens to them once they’re off the property. Make money is the bottom line. Everything else is gravy.

[jse]

[QUOTE=Go Fish;5859930]
I think this is a valid point…

I went with a friend to see a two-year-old yesterday. Not my cup of tea, but the friend really liked the horse. Owner (a fairly big breeder) said something to the effect, “now, if you buy this horse, you won’t be riding him until he’s 4, right? I don’t like any of the horses I sell to be ridden before they’re 4. It’s just too hard on them.”

Ookkaaay…

Sell the freakin’ horse already, no strings attached…it IS a business. Somehow, I don’t think European breeders are selling young stock with any mind as to what happens to them once they’re off the property. Make money is the bottom line. Everything else is gravy.[/QUOTE]

You want to say “So, if I say I’m going to ride it before it’s 4, does that mean you won’t sell it to me?” Geeeeez!!!
This is exactly what I’m saying…how professional is that?

[Calhoun]

I think anything English is going to be fashionable with the upcoming 2012 Olympics. Trends change.

[ahf]

I think it’s a combination of things. Infrastructure is the main one.

Distance, as RyTimK said. You can see 300 foals just at the Hanover elite foal auction alone. Throw a rock, hit a foal in Hanover. In the US, no one wants to change planes 2x to fly into Roanoke airport, and then drive over an hour to see my one single foal this year. It’s just not going to happen.

Ability, knowledge, space and funds to raise a young horse. There are no “raisers” here in the US. You’ll end up paying board close to what you pay for your riding horse here. Ergo, buy a riding horse instead of a young horse.

No system here for getting those young horses started and no beriter program. Here, you pay 1k to 1700 per month in training. A “nearby” show is an hour away. THe good shows are 4, and neither of them are $10 a class. It’s not possible to recoup those dollars spent getting a show record on a young horse and getting it under saddle. There are folks in the US that are getting it done, but they have reached a critical mass and become an actual young horse destination with in-house trainers, etc.

In Germany, there is a show across the street. Literally. And that training board is 6-800 euros. And you can see 50 started, showing youngsters in one day if you want to.

And yes, I think a lot of breeders selling horses don’t know when to shut up. I’m happy to tell you about a horses pedigree, if you are interested. If not, I likely won’t bring it up. The horse in front of them should do the talking for me.

I don’t know what the answers are. Over the last 15 years I’ve pretty much decided that because of the sheer size of this country, and the lack of any kind of regulation/licensing/guild/ apprenticeship programs or infrastructure, it’s never gong to be possible to compete with europe.

[out_west]

Trinity, I have looked at warmbloods-for-sale, Dressage daily, looked at ads in California Dressage Society Letters, looked at websites of people who post on COTH, looked at breed society sites, tries to look up sites of people who have bred good horses that are showing, tried regional breeders clubs. Any other ideas? Personally I feel ads without good videos are a waste since for me movement is critical.