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Buy American

Sport Horse Breeding
#41

Another thing that would help is more breeders helping each other out, whether as a breeding club, or informal network amongst themselves, especially for smaller breeders.

A few weeks ago, a breeding friend of mine forwarded me a referral for a couple looking for young, jumping-bred horses. I reached out to two or three local breeders with horses having the requisite parameters and managed to pull together 12 horses at one site for this couple to see. Looks like the couple is moving forward with a pre-purchase exam on one of these horses – not mine, but a success nonetheless!

The better these networks are and the more we help one another out, the more likely we will find buyers willing to shop regional markets (e.g., the mid-Atlantic), especially, if they can see a reasonable number and variety of horses at one location.

#42

[QUOTE=Bent Hickory;5860102]
Another thing that would help is more breeders helping each other out, whether as a breeding club, or informal network amongst themselves, especially for smaller breeders.

A few weeks ago, a breeding friend of mine forwarded me a referral for a couple looking for young, jumping-bred horses. I reached out to two or three local breeders with horses having the requisite parameters and managed to pull together 12 horses at one site for this couple to see. Looks like the couple is moving forward with a pre-purchase exam on one of these horses – not mine, but a success nonetheless!

The better these networks are and the more we help one another out, the more likely we will find buyers willing to shop regional markets (e.g., the mid-Atlantic), especially, if they can see a reasonable number and variety of horses at one location.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. :slight_smile:

#43

[QUOTE=jse;5859844]
I don’t usually post in SHB but I just have to ask: Do any of you feel that it’s the lack of professionalism here in the states? And the fact that our sport leans more to the amateur side of things?
Just curious…I have friends over the pond and they can attest that people over there mean business. They’ve bought and sold more horses there in a little over a year than I have in my life! They say it’s a much different world and nothing like ours here.[/QUOTE]

That goes both ways. I consistently encounter buyers who state they are seeking their next FEI horse but then, after being provided with multiple video tapes and photos, request detailed headshots showing the “eye” in sharp focus, or the ears, or the forelock, or whatever other aspect of the horse they think is critical to their decision but which indisputably has even less relevance to performance aptitude than the color of the horse. But, it is not for me as the seller to judge. I try to understand the buyer’s needs and accommodate when possible. My experience has been, however, that the more demanding buyers in that regard never actually buy anything. The serious buyers hop on a plane with a lot less information than that.

#44

I am having the same experience. Of the 30 something 2-3 yr olds horses I have enquired about in the last year I have received perhaps 3 or 4 videos of them freejumping, total.

I tell people up front: I am looking for a horse who can jump. I need to see it jump 3’6" easily, and I want to see it walk, trot and canter.

About half the people say they cannot do it - just don’t have the facilities, time, video skills, helper, insurance or whatever.

Another half promise a video that never comes.

The scant few that do come are usually missing the walk or trot portions of the video, or the horse is jumping 2’.

Only a very small percentage send a video that shows a horse with 3 gaits and the ability to truly jump 3’6" at least. Conformation pics? Similarly hard to extract.

These ARE horses being marketed as JUMPERS or EVENTERS on warmbloods-for-sale.com, dreamhorse, equine.com and so on.

Sellers, imagine you are selling a car for $15k. Would you not spend a few hours cleaning it and taking pics? So how come when it comes to selling a horse you cannot do the same, and expect me to spend days of my life and hundreds of dollars to fly hither and yon to look?

You can bet the European horse sellers have their ducks in a row and can show you what their babies can do, AND the prices are less.

If you want to sell youngsters, get your poop in a group!

#45

[QUOTE=Xanthoria;5860210]
I am having the same experience. Of the 30 something 2-3 yr olds horses I have enquired about in the last year I have received perhaps 3 or 4 videos of them freejumping, total.

I tell people up front: I am looking for a horse who can jump. I need to see it jump 3’6" easily, and I want to see it walk, trot and canter.

About half the people say they cannot do it - just don’t have the facilities, time, video skills, helper, insurance or whatever.

Another half promise a video that never comes.

The scant few that do come are usually missing the walk or trot portions of the video, or the horse is jumping 2’.

Only a very small percentage send a video that shows a horse with 3 gaits and the ability to truly jump 3’6" at least. Conformation pics? Similarly hard to extract.

These ARE horses being marketed as JUMPERS or EVENTERS on warmbloods-for-sale.com, dreamhorse, equine.com and so on.

Sellers, imagine you are selling a car for $15k. Would you not spend a few hours cleaning it and taking pics? So how come when it comes to selling a horse you cannot do the same, and expect me to spend days of my life and hundreds of dollars to fly hither and yon to look?

You can bet the European horse sellers have their ducks in a row and can show you what their babies can do, AND the prices are less.

If you want to sell youngsters, get your poop in a group![/QUOTE]

Do you really expect footage of 2 year olds jumping in excess of 3’6? I would not do that with any of mine.

Regarding video requests, I accommodate to the extent possible. But sometimes people do expect too much, in my opinion, and I cannot and will not deal with it. And my prices reflect that. If you want perfect marketing, expect prices commensurate with that.

As for European horse sales, the horses I have bought there had neither fancy videos nor photos, in fact. Apart from those associated with major auctions (which have good marketing), most of the footage I have seen from there is of horses deep in mud, etc.

#46

Yes, I do think a 2 yr old can jump 3’6" once or twice without damaging it. I would not want it doing that regularly, and I would not want someone on it’s back til it was nearer 4 yrs old.

I’m not asking for professional videos and photoshoots - just a camera phone video - ANYTHING - showing the horse can do the job it was bred for.

As for Europeans well as you say the sales do provide all sorts of marketing, and the rest? I don’t need to fly many hours each ways to see 1 or 2 horses there - I can fly to see dozens in a small area. Since US breeders are so far apart they need to get with the video program if they really want to sell youngsters.

It’s that or keep them and break them at 3 or 4 years old and sell them then.

#47

and furthermore, a rider like Julia doesn’t wake up one day and think, “humm, I’ll go buy a new horse for Europe today”. And bust open google to find the perfect foal.

I’m sure she has a pipline. A trainer who lead the family in the decision. A friend of a trainer who mentioned “wow, there is this really great horse here, do you have a client that may benefit?”
It’s not always the riders that breeders need to target but the ones who make the decisions and hand over the cash. :wink:

#48

Hence the reason people go to Europe. Where they can see a batch load of 2 year olds free-jumping 3’6".

#49

This was the big problem for me. I can think of a few horses across the country that I still think about, but the breeders just couldn’t be bothered to actually take pictures and video of the horse. Yes, I see that the horse was an adorable weanling, but it’s now 3 years old and I would love to see some updated pictures and a decent video. No, chasing the horse around the pasture while it runs like a maniac is not enough…

What I couldn’t understand is, sure, don’t just do it for me. Even if you have no faith at all in my desire and ability to fly across the country, you are still MUCH more likely to sell the horse if you make a nice sales video and post it on youtube. Simply point all potential buyers to the video.

#50

My experience has been, however, that the more demanding buyers in that regard never actually buy anything. The serious buyers hop on a plane with a lot less information than that

Agreed!! But I still have to accomodate a lot of their unusual or seemingly endless requests because you never know…and in this market I don’t want to risk losing a sale or my reputation. :no:

#51

I am a serious buyer, I don’t need to see eyes, close ups etc, but I’m not going to jump on a plane with my trainer without seeing the horse move! If I were looking for a jumper I would want to see it jump.

#52

I am not disputing that good media is important. I am just pointing out that some buyers are unrealistic in their expectations and demands. I recently offered significant discounts on a couple of super youngsters because I have limited ability to market them optimally right now. But if you shop at Filene’s basement, you can’t expect to have Bergdorf’s personal shopping service. All my sale horses have current video showing all 3 gaits, and under saddle footage if started. They also have many photos.

One client recently wanted me to take all new photos rather than sign in to facebook to look at the many current photos already available of one horse. The result was that a GP rider bought the horse the same day without a need for further “head studies,” and then the first client became upset that she missed out.

#53

I can think of a few horses across the country that I still think about, but the breeders just couldn’t be bothered to actually take pictures and video of the horse. Yes, I see that the horse was an adorable weanling, but it’s now 3 years old and I would love to see some updated pictures and a decent video. No, chasing the horse around the pasture while it runs like a maniac is not enough…

Is it that they couldn’t be bothered…or they just aren’t actively marketing the horse in awkward stages? That lovely suckling might have morphed into a growthy yearling, and then into an awkward 2yo… and the breeder sees no point in showing the world their 2yo is three inches high behind. (Though I can’t imagine having a three year old with no new video or marketing material)

#54

[QUOTE=TrinitySporthorses;5860427]
Agreed!! But I still have to accomodate a lot of their unusual or seemingly endless requests because you never know…and in this market I don’t want to risk losing a sale or my reputation. :no:[/QUOTE]

Me too, absolutely. I almost always accommodate unless it is impossible for me to do so.

#55

Selling horses is tough because as many have stated it IS a business; however, it is a business where emotional decisions are made with the heart. People generally buy horses because they have a love for the animal. Combine that with a love for the sport that said horse will hopefully have talent for and you create a dream. A lot of the time it is that dream that people are buying, whether the seller be NA or European. From semen to foals to under saddle horses; good photos, detailed bloodline charts, videos, clear descriptions, clean rads and normal realistic prices are what attract clients to farms again and again BUT interestingly enough, I have found that is not what actually sells the horse. Generally it is this intangible thing - a connection, a look in the horses eye, a feeling imparted - from horse to person that clinches the deal - it sounds fluffy but it matters…

#56

I find it in very poor taste to criticize a 17 year old girl for her choice of horse. On a public bulletin board no less.

And you have no idea the price or purchase arrangement.

#57

To be honest I really don’t know, because I would get long hard-sell emails promising pictures and video and then nothing. A few breeders would tell me how they didn’t have time, or the technology, or whatever, then next thing I know they are off showing in Florida or shopping in Europe. Then a couple of them would come on these forums and whine about how they cannot sell horses and no one wants to buy American or whatever. Maybe they don’t like me or didn’t want to sell me a horse? I know I come across as a hard personality, but one thing I do know is I am an awesome home and can ride a horse :wink:

It’s neither here nor there, it all worked out wonderfully for me in what I ended up with, but it still makes me scratch my head!

#58

I agree with a lot of things being said …

Being able to view a large number of young horses over a span of a couple of days is a huge plus and a big savings in travel expense. Being able to view the type of young horses exactly as you requested is even better. When shopping in Europe with good breeders, I can say that I want to see youngsters with specific qualities and this is exactly what I’ll see. There is also a difference in the understanding of bloodlines. I do feel that North American breeders are continually breeding forward and are doing a great job, but there sometimes seems to be a lack of understanding as to the difference between an good pedigree and a super pedigree. I can’t tell you how often I have heard that the horse is “jumper” bred and I look at the pedigree and it is a dressage pedigree.

From a buyer perspective, media is incredibly important. Just go to any of the sales site and look at the large number of really bad ads. Ads that tell you the 2 or 3 year old has Grand Prix potential yet it is free jumping 2’6" in mediocre fashion or it is a pasture shot of an ungroomed, ribby, pot-bellied horse. A 2 year old jumper bred should be able to comfortably jump 3’6" to 4’3". Typically, it is not necessary to do more than 2 or 3 free jumping sessions to get decent video (if the chute is set up and worked correctly and the horse is athletic). I don’t want to see an ungroomed horse (i.e. long mane, unkempt tail, hairy legs/face/ears), any “pasture” shots, or horses in poor quality tack (ill fitting halters/bridles or worn out nylon halters or rope halters). I want to see all three gaits (mostly the trot and canter plus natural lead changes), a good conformation photo, and free jumping over suitable heights.

For seller perspective, it is tough to get the footage especially if you are a staff of me, myself, and I. :lol: And, even more so if you don’t have the facilities (ring, jump chute, etc.). For our farm, it is an all hands on deck day just to make sales footage of 3 or 4 horses, so I totally understand how difficult it is to get additional photos or video for buyers. But, I feel that in this internet age, we are all going to need to focus on online media to sell our horses.

#59

Silver Creek Farms, this is a wonderful sales page
http://www.silvercreeksporthorses.com/younghorses.html

I can’t afford the horses, but it’s certainly a well done sales page :slight_smile:

#60

[QUOTE=Xanthoria;5860210]
Of the 30 something 2-3 yr olds horses I have enquired about in the last year …[/QUOTE]

Candidly, if someone told me that they had been looking for a horse for more than a year, I wouldn’t bother sending a video either.

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