Buy American

[Molly_Malone]

@okggo;5861708

Has anyone had a sale actually come from a one-liner e-mail? As an interested buyer would you not take the time to sound like you were actually interested? I read those and think it’s likely someone curious, or bored, or a scammer.

Yes, two

The initial inquiries were both ‘is he/she still available?’. And it’s a valid question which saves everyone a lot of time.

I try to keep everything up to date on my website and in ads. Sometimes things slip through the crack, and sometimes, you just have to take what you can get - for example I asked my husband to help me video my 3 month old cold (because that what buyers want, three days, three months and 6 months). He did so, in the roasting heat while he was feeling unwell. And the video is… awful.:lol: Horribly unsteady. But there you go, I’m on my own. I don’t have help and with the best will in the world, I can’t handle a mare and foal and video camera at the same time. But I know that it’s better than no video!

(I’ve since bought a tripod for it so the arena portion of the next video will be steady. Loose in the field will be the challenge)

[dianehalpin]

LOL, SILVERBALLS! Readers: Please note IHF RESULTS postings!

Speak with BENT HICKORY about his winning Landkoenig mare!

Kenny Wheeler’s CISMONT MANOR is also turning successful HB horses into successful performers even as we take the time to post on COTH and that is happening coast to coast at others’ facilities.

If we had better communication while pinning the results at horse shows and eventing competitions we would realize where most of the winners were born.

[Equilibrium]

If there is one line to take from this thread, it’s Mary Lou’s. She says I will compete with anyone anywhere. That is the attitude to have when selling or indeed breeding raising and selling. Don’t see Europe as the evil empire that takes all your buyers away.

And yes the infrastructure with regards to bringing on young horses us better but ask yourself why. It’s not good enough to say it’s easier. Europeans know that is part of the plan. That is why a system is in place. They didn’t start breeding and go, crap, now what do we do. They didn’t sell before 3. It’s pretty much putting the cart before the horse. You can whine and moan about it or plan ahead. Make breaking a part of your program if it’s needed. I know some of you may not be in discipline friendly areas. But that’s not buyers faults and you have to figure out before breeding. What you can’t do is buy the best mares, breed to the best stallions, get all emotional about who Pookie goes to, have no plan for uploads, marketing, and starting. That wouldn’t work in any business.

And come on people, do you all not have any horsie friends? Seriously, I’m on my own as are some of my friends. We tend to help each other in more difficult situations than a couple of 20 second uploads. As long as you have tea and something to eat, you have people to spend a couple of hours with you. And god bless the Irish because at least they will go, geez Ter that looks like crap on camera. I wouldn’t buy her. Ok redo.

And since I have only picked on sellers, I will start with buyers. Email is nice but pick up the phone and call. You get a better sense of who you’re dealing with. I don’t know if it’s all of Europe, but if you send an email in Ireland about a horse for sale, pretty sure you won’t get anything back quickly. They really don’t do BS over here. Be honest in what you want. It’s ok to not be sure but relay that to seller. And try not to waste a sellers time as much as you don’t want your time wasted.

Terri

[rainechyldes]

It’s a global market.

I don’t think forcing purchasers to restrict themselves to buying in a certain country, just because you happen to be a breeder in that country does anyone a service.

Would you be upset if a european buyer showed up one day and bought one of your horses to take back to europe? (I kind of doubt it)

I’ts so easy to market internationally now, use the technology available to do so, and broaden your sales horizons.

This year, I sold 4 horses outside North America.
1 GB, 1 to France, 2 to Australia- package deal
I’m not going to complain and say, 'hey! ’ you ought to be buying locally.

[fordtraktor]

[QUOTE=Equilibrium;5861992]

And since I have only picked on sellers, I will start with buyers. Email is nice but pick up the phone and call. You get a better sense of who you’re dealing with. I don’t know if it’s all of Europe, but if you send an email in Ireland about a horse for sale, pretty sure you won’t get anything back quickly. They really don’t do BS over here. Be honest in what you want. It’s ok to not be sure but relay that to seller. And try not to waste a sellers time as much as you don’t want your time wasted.

Terri[/QUOTE]

I agree, calling is so much better than email. You can get the details on the horse so much faster than sending 10 rounds of emails back and forth that still don’t transfer as much information as five minutes on the phone can.

I never send an email or call about a horse unless I am seriously interested. I might send an email if something catches my eye but I don’t really need another horse… :lol: The last horse I bought, I purchased off a facebook conversation when a breeder posted its 3-day pics, so those can turn serious…eek!

[Sakura_Hill_Farm]

We received a one-line email from someone wishing to purchase one of our prized broodmares. We told her that, unfortunately, she is not for sale but that perhaps she would be interested in an in utero contract on her foal. We didn’t hear anything for a few days and had believed that the exchange had reached a dead end. Three days later, we received an email- again, one line- asking to speak with us by phone that AM. It became clear from the call that this was a serious buyer, the contract was signed and faxed to one another by 11 AM and the funds were received by 3 PM.

When it is good, it is VERY good for both parties and this usually becomes apparent very quickly!

[Backstage]

I always read these threads with considerable interest because fundamentally I want breeders to do well and sell horses. However, there always seems to be such resistance to the input given by people who have bought/are shopping. You know…the customer. I’m not saying the customer is always right, but these people still remain your best chance of getting your product sold.

While there are lots of breeders that seem to be doing the right things (i.e. current websites with photos and video), there are lots that aren’t. And those sellers often complain about their inability to sell horses. That isn’t unique to this board, it happens in real life too. I’m not sure whether its that they genuinely don’t see the link between sales and current info/videos/photos, or they just aren’t willing to believe it.

And I truly don’t really understand that. I have helped a number of friends advertise their horses, and this includes youngsters. This goes back a few years for the most part, but we still had current photos and videos available online back when google video was the thing. Nowadays, the VERY first thing I would do with a prospective sales horse would be:

1. Good front, back, left side, right side photos
2. Good pictures under saddle and over fences, if appropriate
3. Video of the horse W/T/C - in hand/loose for the youngsters, mounted for the riding horses
4. Video footage of the horse free jumping and/or jumping under saddle (depending on age)

I would then put the materials on the breeder’s website or a free webpage and include a short description. The photos/videos can then be updated at appropriate intervals.

Then, no matter the format of the inquiry (a fulsome email or a one liner of “pics pls”), the relevant information is available and accessible. I found having this allowed me to reply to potential purchases instantly and find out if they had more than a passing interest. I also wasn’t, as a result, constantly frustrated when dealing with tire-kickers. It wasn’t as if I had rearranged my schedule and stood in the rain for hours for that one potential buyer.

Now, inevitably, you will encounter someone who wants some additional pics or video. If you are really proactive, you can satisfy any crazy requests. Or you can weigh your options and only expend your time/energy on inquiries you view as legitimate.

I don’t want to downplay the time that goes into this sort of endearing. It does take time and energy - things that are often in short supply. But its also incredibly important. It also isn’t that unmanageable if you consider it a must (just like scheduling that farrier visit) and just get it done. And that may mean that you don’t have time to make the horse absolutely sparkling - but most buyers won’t notice or will be able to look past that. Obviously, I’m not advocating for muddy horse photos/videos.

We did photos and video footage for three foals a few weeks ago, and it took us about an hour or so. Obviously they are much easier to do than horses that are going undersaddle or need to be free-jumped, but most buyers are going to ask for videos unless they are around the corner, so you simply need to figure out a plan, or frankly accept that it will take longer to sell your horse and with a diminished pool of buyers…you may not be able to get the price you’d like. The kicker for me is that all of this can be done with a basic camera or even certain smartphones.

Not having this stuff does hurt sellers. Relatively recently a friend was very interested in a nice unbacked mare. She liked what she saw in photos, but the mare was over 8 hours away. She asked for video, and was promised some. But it took over two months for the seller to get the footage. In the meantime, she bought another horse. When the seller finally sent her the footage, my friend was impressed and told me that she would have bought that horse instead.

I also realize that some breeders are not that techno-savvy. I get it. But at least try and ask for help. I think people would be amazed at the resources that are available to them for free/inexpensively if they just ask.

[TrinitySporthorses]

As for video, what do you all consider “recent”? If it’s an under saddle horse (not green and developing quickly) I think every 6-12 months is ok. For yearlings/two year olds, just once a year whenever you can catch them in a decent balanced state. For foals, every month or two. I had a very serious buyer recently request “more recent” video and pictures of a 2011 foal. What I had already sent her was less than 3 weeks old and it was from the inspection so she was clean and there were lots of pix and about 30 seconds of movement in the video!
So, I’m asking both buyers and sellers- what is good enough when it comes to video in terms of time frame?

And come on people, do you all not have any horsie friends? Seriously, I’m on my own as are some of my friends. We tend to help each other in more difficult situations than a couple of 20 second uploads.

Do I have horse friends? Yes. Are they anywhere nearby? NO! The barn where I take lessons is 30 miles south and all the boarders there that I am getting to know live much farther south, making them an hour away. I moved to a rural area where I could afford a large piece of property but taking video usually means doing it by myself (liberty videos) or nagging my husband until he gives in (and then whines the whole time). I am trying to network and frequently ask my vet and farrier if they know of any older 4-H or Pony Club kids that would be interested in helping me occassionally- but they never do.
The idea mentioned above to get out there and meet people- “market yourself.” Well, that’s a great idea that I hadn’t really thought of. Too bad I have no one to take care of the horses while I go. There are no major events near me as I live in an area dominated by backyard horses and trail riders.

It is frustrating to try my darndest day after day and get oh so close to a sale time after time with no results. No sales means no money, which means I can’t afford to go to shows, hire videographers, put all my horses in training with a BNT, or travel all over making connections- even though I KNOW I need to do those things to sell my horses. It is a vicious cycle! It feels like you have to start with big money to make any money. That sort of thing can wear one down.

[SilverBalls]

Make it happen…

North America ~ Do what you have to do… it is what it is. Woulda, shoulda, coulda = nothing. :yes:

[fordtraktor]

[QUOTE=TrinitySporthorses;5862144]
As for video, what do you all consider “recent”? If it’s an under saddle horse (not green and developing quickly) I think every 6-12 months is ok. For yearlings/two year olds, just once a year whenever you can catch them in a decent balanced state. For foals, every month or two. I had a very serious buyer recently request “more recent” video and pictures of a 2011 foal. What I had already sent her was less than 3 weeks old and it was from the inspection so she was clean and there were lots of pix and about 30 seconds of movement in the video!
So, I’m asking both buyers and sellers- what is good enough when it comes to video in terms of time frame?

.[/QUOTE]

I would certainly consider that recent. Maybe she just wants more than 30 seconds of movement? I do like to see 2-3 minutes’ worth, 30 seconds is 10 seconds per gait, 5 seconds each direction, not much. I like to see at least 30 seconds per gait.

[Backstage]

@TrinitySporthorses;5862144

As for video, what do you all consider “recent”? If it’s an under saddle horse (not green and developing quickly) I think every 6-12 months is ok. For yearlings/two year olds, just once a year whenever you can catch them in a decent balanced state. For foals, every month or two. I had a very serious buyer recently request “more recent” video and pictures of a 2011 foal. What I had already sent her was less than 3 weeks old and it was from the inspection so she was clean and there were lots of pix and about 30 seconds of movement in the video!
So, I’m asking both buyers and sellers- what is good enough when it comes to video in terms of time frame?

Its a bit of a judgment call. For horses that are under saddle, you likely want to update the video as they progress. If the horse is now doing some solid lateral work or has stepped up to the 3’6" height while schooling…this is information that you want the buyers to have. Its really to your advantage as they may be more inclined to make the trip or consider you price to be within the realm of reasonable after all.

3 weeks is more than recent enough for a foal! In those circumstances, I would make it very clear that the video footage was that recent and ask whether there was anything specific that the buyer wanted to see. For instance, perhaps the video only shows the foal cantering to the right but not to the left. If the seller doesn’t have a good reason, I think you simply need to weigh whether the seller appears to be otherwise seriously interested. There are times when the effort of responding to a buyer’s inquiries are not worth your time.

Do I have horse friends? Yes. Are they anywhere nearby? NO! The barn where I take lessons is 30 miles south and all the boarders there that I am getting to know live much farther south, making them an hour away. I moved to a rural area where I could afford a large piece of property but taking video usually means doing it by myself (liberty videos) or nagging my husband until he gives in (and then whines the whole time). I am trying to network and frequently ask my vet and farrier if they know of any older 4-H or Pony Club kids that would be interested in helping me occassionally- but they never do.
The idea mentioned above to get out there and meet people- “market yourself.” Well, that’s a great idea that I hadn’t really thought of. Too bad I have no one to take care of the horses while I go. There are no major events near me as I live in an area dominated by backyard horses and trail riders.

Perhaps I am too generous with my time, but I’ve driven further than 30 miles to take pictures for a friend. I’ll admit that I’m not sure I would do it for a total stranger given how busy I am now! That said, you need to make the ask to see what kind of response you would get. In your place, I would ask if I could post a sign at the lesson barn and would offer some money in exchange for assistance on a Saturday or Sunday and commit to driving. You are likely to find a willing kid, who probably doesn’t drive or have a car. You may even find an adult who wants more exposure to youngsters. It will cost you some money (but it won’t be outrageous) - every other business has to spend some to get their product to market. Asking your vet/farrier is a good step, but you are the one with an interest in getting this done.

It is frustrating to try my darndest day after day and get oh so close to a sale time after time with no results. No sales means no money, which means I can’t afford to go to shows, hire videographers, put all my horses in training with a BNT, or travel all over making connections- even though I KNOW I need to do those things to sell my horses. It is a vicious cycle! It feels like you have to start with big money to make any money. That sort of thing can wear one down.

Hiring a BNT and traveling to shows and traveling to network all cost considerable sums of money. Sure, they would make things easier…but focusing on those things will only overwhelm you at this stage, in my view. The first step is spending a small amount of money to get a kid out to help take video/photos. Baby steps.

[out_west]

What I consider recent depends on the age of the horse. I am looking at 3 - 4 year olds, so video from the foal inspection I don’t bother with, but, since I am willing to consider unstarted, video from age 2 is o.k. for me. For a mature horse, certainly 6 months seems fine. I won’t schedule a visit that I have to fly to without video however, what many owners advertize as great movement I often think is only so so. No insult to the owner, just not what I am looking for.

[Equilibrium]

Trinity, Backstage gave you some great advice. Baby steps. And I don’t think unless you are uber wealthy you will have the perfect set up. Not many people do and that’s not a crime but you have to do the best with what you have. Making excuses isn’t an option. What about hiring out where you take lessons? Just talk to the owner. It might not be workable for either of you but you won’t know til you ask. Take 2 horses you want to sell and concentrate on those 2 for now. Why on earth do you need a professional videographer? I have a great little video cam that hooks up to the computer. I’m just a step above dial up on a good day so very frustrating but that’s what I’d use.

Everyone hates Facebook and yet recently I’ve arranged a deal with a friend who was looking for a 3yo. Put him in touch with owners and they did a deal. I saw from a post he was looking. It’s very easy to use and free. You can upload your stuff immediately. Website links then make it a step easier too. No not a long term system but hey there are Europeans with big Facebook presences too.

You have to think outside the box. It doesn’t have to be big and expensive and you can’t whine about things you can’t change. Work with and around those challenges.

Terri

[Perfect_Pony]

@Equilibrium;5862262

Everyone hates Facebook and yet recently I’ve arranged a deal with a friend who was looking for a 3yo. Put him in touch with owners and they did a deal. I saw from a post he was looking. It’s very easy to use and free. You can upload your stuff immediately. Website links then make it a step easier too. No not a long term system but hey there are Europeans with big Facebook presences too.

I bought my pony via facebook. She wasn’t even really what I was looking for, but because people I trusted were “friends” with the people and had seen the ponies in person, I was forwarded on the information. I went to the breeders facebook page, saw some cute pictures, and recognized one of the gals in the pictures who was starting the ponies (someone I liked) so I went to see the ponies. 2 visits and I wrote a check.

On the other hand another breeder with several horses I was interested in, who doesn’t have an updated website or a public facebook site rejected my facebook request (all her updates and pictures are on her personal account). I had to laugh at that because she is “friends” with hundreds of people, including people I personally know to be less then decent horsemen and horse hoarders…After that I was done with ever considering a horse from her no matter how nice they are.

So facebook can be to your benefit or detriment.

[purplnurpl]

Being a breeder is tough and there is a lot of competition.

Prospects can be hard to sell if there is no show records to track from earlier generations. So start up can take some time! Who you know is huge!

Breeders need to realize that if they wish to really succeed then they might have to “give up” their first crop to get a name out there.

I rode a horse a year ago for such a breeder. She found me and free leased her 2nd baby to me (who was very nice in deed). I jumped at the chance to ride for her because I could never buy myself such a horse…

She took a chance.
This kid was worth a ton and she sold him to an UL rider for 1/4 the price to “get the name out there”.

She did the same with her 1st born and she’s helped clients with other babies from her stallion.
People know her now because of her first few crops of kids are out and showing and winning. Though she has yet to make much money in the bizz on sales. The good stuff is just starting. :yes:

On the contrary…I have another friend who shows Andalusions and wants her lines to be known for sport rather than halter.
I started and showed her 1st born 8 years ago.
I tried to work out a deal with her to make me a baby from her alpha mare. She would have had the total package with me…I would have gotten the line name out there in several diciplines INCLUDING the breed shows.
But she was too proud and here she still is with a load of unbroke Andalusions, no rider, and no sales.

starting out is tough.

[Xanthoria]

Here folks - I made a tongue in cheek page using Google Sites to sell the fictitious horse “Supercolt”

https://sites.google.com/site/hanoveriancolt/

All six pages took me less than HALF AN HOUR. And it’s FREE.

Add in your photoshoot with Supercolt (another hour) and a video shoot (call it 2-3 hours) and you have a site that will sell your horse AND stop the tire-kickers wasting your time because they will have all the info they need to make a decision on whether they’re seriously interested BEFORE they pick up the phone or shoot you an email.

As unanswered questions come in from buyers, add the answers to your site. You only ever need to answer each question ONCE!

Apologies to the people I stole pictures form online.

[out_west]

LOVE it. Now where does it get placed so I can find it? Need to clean my keyboard, too funny!

[Bent_Hickory]

[QUOTE=Xanthoria;5862481]
Add in your photoshoot with Supercolt (another hour) and a video shoot (call it 2-3 hours)[/QUOTE]

Herein lies a big disconnect. You severely underestimate the time these activities take by a factor of 3 or 4, particularly for a small breeder without a staff.

To begin with, it takes two adults at least an hour and a half to two hours to prepare a young horse for photos by the time you factor in bathing, clipping ears/whiskers/fetlocks, bleaching whites, pulling mane, banging tail, drying, fitting a halter/bridle, etc., all the while dealing with a young horse.

And if you have 4-5 youngsters, you’re looking at a whole day’s worth of work and not a single photo taken…

[Kadenz]

[QUOTE=Bent Hickory;5862636]
Herein lies a big disconnect. You severely underestimate the time these activities take by a factor of 3 or 4, particularly for a small breeder without a staff.

To begin with, it takes two adults at least an hour and a half to two hours to prepare a young horse for photos by the time you factor in bathing, clipping ears/whiskers/fetlocks, bleaching whites, pulling mane, banging tail, drying, fitting a halter/bridle, etc., all the while dealing with a young horse.

And if you have 4-5 youngsters, you’re looking at a whole day’s worth of work and not a single photo taken…[/QUOTE]

I guess I don’t get why this is such a problem. You have the time and money to breed and raise the horses, and it never occurs to you that presenting them for sale is part of that process?

I know a woman who has a small breeding program. She’s a lower level amateur rider, who keeps 3 to 4 mares with foals by their side or in-foal, at a time. She makes SOME OF THE NICEST ads I have seen for young, unstarted horses. Her videos are great, photos are great, she works with the babies and takes them to inspections so that they handle and have some experience off the farm.

Now, this woman isn’t wealthy by any means and doesn’t have a staff - she does all this pretty much by herself. Because she wants her young horses to be sold to good homes, for a good price.

Why is that so difficult to do? All I’m hearing from this board is excuses!

[Xanthoria]

@Bent Hickory;5862636

Herein lies a big disconnect. You severely underestimate the time these activities take by a factor of 3 or 4, particularly for a small breeder without a staff.

To begin with, it takes two adults at least an hour and a half to two hours to prepare a young horse for photos by the time you factor in bathing, clipping ears/whiskers/fetlocks, bleaching whites, pulling mane, banging tail, drying, fitting a halter/bridle, etc., all the while dealing with a young horse.

And if you have 4-5 youngsters, you’re looking at a whole day’s worth of work and not a single photo taken…

Herein lies another big disconnect: you do not need to wash, clip or otherwise primp the horse before the video: unless you’re shooting in hi def, nobody can see those details!

As for pulling manes, people buying youngsters expect to see them with long manes, or expect a big breeder to have spent literally 5 minutes with a Mars Coat King or similar thinning and shortening the mane for appearances. If you show your babies I expect they’re already pulled, so it’s moot.

If you find people can’t see past a long mane, ask yourself if they really are ready to buy a baby - surely they’ve seen this before?

Throw a halter on (fitting a bridle? Why?) knock the worst of the mud off, out to the arena and let’s see his walk, trot and canter, loose - no helper needed unless he just wants to stand still, or you can’t figure out how to set the camera going on a fencepost as you chase him. 30 mins max.

Tie him up, and do your conformation video - walk around him slowly panning up and down. 10 mins max.

To do your freejump video you’ll need a helper, but again - no primping required. If he’s properly prepared to freejump you’re looking at 30 mins tops (who’d jump longer than that anyway?) Anyone serious about selling a jumper has poles and so on ready to go, so building a chute, if it’s not done already, is the work of 10 mins.

We are at an hour and twenty and the rest over to upload the video.

What’s the other option? Don’t do anything? Then expect to have a hard time selling your horses.