buyer of next door property wants a variance to change set back line in order to build

[ayrabz]

This is A-1 (General Agriculture) — on a narrow country road, and was ‘never’ to be smaller than 3 acre parcels at minimum many parcels are much larger. So the 200 ft. is pretty understandable and most would not want to look in to the back window of a home next to them anyway. (as in: most would not WANT a closer to road frontage)

Clanter: what I have found out? is 15 ft. minimum is the placement to the side property lines…so they are not contesting that from what I was ‘told’.

and BB : no harm no foul. Being factual and having done proper research is definitely important.

I certainly could oppose the set back change. They did buy this property full knowing there was a Resouce Protection Area upon it. And it may years from now be something I wish I had, if my fears are realized that these people will not WANT a home that close on a fenceline of a small horsefarm. This is directly next to our little barn/sacrifice area and small turnouts and sometimes there is indeed manure to be raked and dumped that doesn’t happen every single day. Like today for instance!

[SusanO]

Sounds like a good area to start the manure pile.:lol:

[ayrabz]

HAHAHAHAHA…it really is the ‘most’ manure area right now, typically. I think they’re crazy. and I fear ANY home built on that tiny buildable area right next to our line.

[jawa]

Do you have any concerns with regards to your well and/or septic system? I would check to see how far from those systems they are building and that their systems don’t impact yours.

[clanter]

@ayrabz

This is A-1 (General Agriculture) — on a narrow country road, and was ‘never’ to be smaller than 3 acre parcels at minimum many parcels are much larger. So the 200 ft. is pretty understandable and most would not want to look in to the back window of a home next to them anyway. (as in: most would not WANT a closer to road frontage)

Clanter: what I have found out? is 15 ft. minimum is the placement to the side property lines…so they are not contesting that from what I was ‘told’.

for three acre lot a 200 ft back set is pretty far… we are on just under three acres I just measured what a 200 ft back set would be on our property it ends up in our round pen

200 ft sure makes for an expensive driveway and laborious trek taking the trash out to be pickup and get mail/packages

The 15 foot side set back, well just does not compute for me as its relationship to the the very long 200 ft frontal set back is just out of proportion just does seem to “fit”.

But get a copy of the regulations so you know for sure what the actual requirements are not what you were told. When we built our barn I was told the side set was 10 feet so I went 15 ft thinking that should be good… inspector shows up issues a stop work order as the Real set back was 25 feet. I had to go through the expense and lost construction time to obtain a variance, which was guaranteed . (that was thirty years ago…today the set back is now 10 feet) … but learned then to not trust what some one says but now make them print out the regulations which I attack to my construction files.

[lorilu]

I would put up a section of privacy fence along the common lot line where the house will go. BEFORE they build. Carefully and clearly on your side (barely) of the line. I would also attend the meeting and state into the record that your sacrifice paddocks are there, and your manure pile, all fully permissible. That you are concerned that a house so close will affect your animals… whatever, so long as you can get that info into the record of the meeting. Then, get a copy of the minutes. That way they cannot complain later.

[lorilu]

speaking of wells and septic, is there room for THOSE on the site? Existing wells and septic affect permissible placements… they cant make you move yours to let his in…

[PeteyPie]

In addition to the advice you have been given, I would think about how you can make it better if they do build. For example, if they want to build closer to the street, why does that bother you? Think about the specifics and what you could request to make that situation better for you. If they want to build closer to you than is currently allowed, maybe you might ask that as a condition of the variance, no windows, driveways, or parking areas be allowed in the design for that side of the house. Or you could require a certain type and height of fence or landscaping.

Just a thought.

[ayrabz]

thanks for all great questions and suggestions
.
@Petey : the house will have to be very close to our line because of its shape. no room left or right close to the road to adjust, since its very narrow there and opens up like a ‘fan’ from there. if it could go back further they wouldn’t HAVE to put it right up against (15 ft allowed ) our property line. I will try to research and find out if I can request something as a condition of the variance.

@ lorilu and jawa. septic and wells. Honestly? I have no idea if it will impact ours. OURS is at the side of our home (septic only) and was put in when my grandfather built the home early 1940s. Our well is out in front of the house closer to the road. I know MANY aspects of our property would NOT be allowed in a build ‘now’. back of my ‘barn’ is almost exactly on our shared side property line . But it was built back then and grandfathered in. Our 'fencing is almost ‘on’ the property lines too in order to get the most allowable land usage since yes, our property is mostly in a ravine / creek/ RPA unbuildable area at the back property line as is theirs. Their lot ‘shape’ simply makes their useable space almost nothing (in my book) I wouldn’t venture any ‘putting up’ of anything on the outside of our fence line ‘before’ they move in as mentioned because I would expect it would indeed be on their property. But I can question the possibility of if THEY could like Petey mentioned.

as far as a well, I can’t see how another well would NOT impact our water, etc… but if the county allows them to have a well there is not much I can do about that of course!

[4horses]

Privacy fence and some tall hedges/trees. If you can’t stop them from building then you can still make changes to your own property to ensure your privacy. Plant something now to give it time to grow.

When my neighbor moved in, she came over and told me she “likes to lay in bed and watch me work the horses through her bedroom window.” There is no privacy on my property as it is just a big field on top of the hill. I can also spy on the neighbors just as easily. Since I’m often working the horses alone, it is okay because if an accident happens someone will probably see it and come help. But if I really wanted privacy, I would need a hedge. And it isn’t so great when the vet comes up or you have to discipline a horse, as again there’s always someone watching.

My area has such huge setbacks, the barn had to sit in the center of the property, near the house, in full sun. Not where I would have chosen to put my barn, but it’s a short walk from the house. It would be a perfect location if I had some shade there.

[ayrabz]

@4horses thanks and I promise if I had the area outside my horse fence to DO something I would. It would be on their property. I’m as close to the line as I can get for planting or building. I’m going to ask County Officer if a request for accepting the variance could be a stipulation of them adding a privacy fence BUT I need to be reasonable with how far to request it be ‘from’ my horse fence. I dunno if we both need a buffer or what. if its right up on my fence, my horses could chew / damage it…

[Mango20]

If they’re not requesting a variance to the 15’ setback along your property line, I don’t think you’re in a position to ask them for a privacy fence, or any other accommodations. If they’re within the original zoning of the parcel, you’ve got nothing to say about it as far as how it affects your side property line. Their house being 15’ closer to the road with a 185’ setback will really not be noticeable. I understand that means it’s probably going to be right at the 15’ setback for the side line, but that’s perfectly within their rights to do, no matter how much space they have for building.

[JanM]

The one thing I would do is start thinking about what they’ll complain about, and prepare plans for that. Do you have adequate fencing to keep out kids or dogs from their property? Enough fence separation to keep then from feeding or messing with the horses? If your manure pile is near there, can you move it? Or minimize problems with flies and smells? Nothing might come of them building, but better to have a plan in case it does.

[lorilu]

@ayrabz

thanks for all great questions and suggestions
.
@Petey : the house will have to be very close to our line because of its shape. no room left or right close to the road to adjust, since its very narrow there and opens up like a ‘fan’ from there. if it could go back further they wouldn’t HAVE to put it right up against (15 ft allowed ) our property line. I will try to research and find out if I can request something as a condition of the variance.

@ lorilu and jawa. septic and wells. Honestly? I have no idea if it will impact ours. OURS is at the side of our home (septic only) and was put in when my grandfather built the home early 1940s. Our well is out in front of the house closer to the road. I know MANY aspects of our property would NOT be allowed in a build ‘now’. back of my ‘barn’ is almost exactly on our shared side property line . But it was built back then and grandfathered in. Our 'fencing is almost ‘on’ the property lines too in order to get the most allowable land usage since yes, our property is mostly in a ravine / creek/ RPA unbuildable area at the back property line as is theirs. Their lot ‘shape’ simply makes their useable space almost nothing (in my book) I wouldn’t venture any ‘putting up’ of anything on the outside of our fence line ‘before’ they move in as mentioned because I would expect it would indeed be on their property. But I can question the possibility of if THEY could like Petey mentioned.

as far as a well, I can’t see how another well would NOT impact our water, etc… but if the county allows them to have a well there is not much I can do about that of course!

question isnt if your well and septic are in the “wrong” place for today’s rules. The question is - will he ahve enough room to put HIS in and still meet the rules IRT distance from YOURS. I know about this because when I built, I could not put the well or septic where I planned due to neighboring wells and septics… and it affected the placement of my house.
ANd putting up fences or planting hedges should of course be on your side of the fence.

[HungarianHippo]

@ayrabz The dismay you’re feeling about getting new neighbors close to your house is totally understandable. But you need to accept that this is an unavoidable fact of horsekeeping on a small lot. Everything you’re saying about them (they’ll be right in your space because their lot is not all that suitable for how they’re using it). could be said about you, even though you got their first. So in the interest of a healthy neighbor relationship, maybe try to reframe your thinking: just as your family has made the best use of the land without intending to be bad neighbors, they’re probably going to do the same. Sounds like you believe you are grandfathered for having your facilities right on the property line, but I’d urge you to confirm that this is actually the case.

If it’s not clear that you’re truly, legally grandfathered, it’s all the more reason to stay on good footing with the newbies, so that your building (that generates odors and flies and sits RIGHT ON THEIR LINE) doesn’t become a source of complaints. For the fenceline-- that’s not an immovable, permanent thing. If privacy is a big concern for you, move that line of posts in a little bit, and put up privacy fence. Or why not just add privacy boards to the inside of your existing fenceline, with some hotwire to keep your horses from messing with it.

Sorry, I know none of this is what you want to hear. This least of all (and I say this just about every time these MY NEIGHBOR’S TOO CLOSE threads come up): if you <general you> don’t want to see or hear neighbors, buy more land. Everyone sputters in response about why this is impractical / impossible / whatever, but it actually IS possible in many areas of the country. So either decide that this level of privacy is a top priority and arrange your life to fulfill that priority, or acknowledge that you have other priorities and therefore need to accommodate some sacrifices on this one. Bottom line, the neighbors have every right to use their property however they want, within the bounds of the ordinances/law. It is not their fault that the amount of land you own does not meet your needs for privacy, so any anger directed their way about it is entirely misplaced.

[jawa]

@lorilu

question isnt if your well and septic are in the “wrong” place for today’s rules. The question is - will he ahve enough room to put HIS in and still meet the rules IRT distance from YOURS. I know about this because when I built, I could not put the well or septic where I planned due to neighboring wells and septics… and it affected the placement of my house.
ANd putting up fences or planting hedges should of course be on your side of the fence.

This was exactly my reason for asking. It is something to look into. He won’t be able to put the septic within the protected area, and it won’t be able to within a certain distance of existing wells or where he hopes to put his well and those things can’t be within a certain distance of his home. His small area to build may have just gotten ALOT smaller.

This may be the thing that helps the OP.

[Equibrit]

@ayrabz

thanks Clanter…as mentioned, the setback variance they request is from road. They want it 185 ft. instead of 200ft. (to keep it out of the Resource Protection Area)…what is hard to explain to others is: this is because the width of the buildable area is so limited because of how the parcel is cut up, and because of the RPA. So yes, it does impact how close it will be to our line. but …15 ft. is what they are allowed. Would a regular shaped lot of 3 acres allow them a MUCH more varied spot to put it, yes. But the laws are clear. they can put it 15 ft. to our fenceline. so I’m not fighting further.

15ft to your fence line or your property line ?

[ayrabz]

@Mango: you are exactly right. if they can put a building 15 ft. from the line, they can. plain and simple. Which is where/when I realized I would not ‘argue’ with the variance to the road.

Septic: County laws and well: again, these have restrictions and building codes in place. If the county allows and approves them is their job. I won’t have any case to argue anything beyond their codes. but @jawa: I too thought of septic and well and where it would go-----but has to be approved and to code, so we’ll see!

@Hungarian Hippo: I don’t know what you thought about how your post may be helpful? Our property is now going to be sandwiched between two lots that never were supposed to be allowed . the opposite side? original owner parceled out to a family member, which was allowed. Family member sold to a builder. we don’t have a 3 acre parcel there as required in this zoning…its barely over an acre. Once researched, while ‘wrong’ to the A-1 zoning rules, when I found this is a way around it and was / is allowed, I never went further and welcomed the new neighbors. Now the other side is sandwiching up against our property too, as similar as the other side since they bought a 3 acre parcel with about an acre to build on because of the RPA, and EVEN THAT they want an allowance on. Once I realized they can set their house 15 ft. from the line, I also gave up. what the law provides and protects I live by. these people have known our family for years. Not one call, not one second of sharing anything with us…we thought perhaps they had moved out of the area, since they’ve never been out to this property for years. Waist high weeds/undergrowth and dead trees, fallen … never mowed , bushogged, NOTHING even once a year…I was out cleaning the paddocks that adjoin their side and that is the one/only time I encountered that they were still alive and still intended to build and I WELCOMED them. I’m no whackko monster . I don’t know why the zoning has failed us on each side, but it IS WHAT IT IS. We researched ALL rules and I’m not moving my allowed fenceline. I didn’t ask for your judgement on all rules I had already followed to the letter in MY planning. WE didn’t ask for any variances. This was here, done, and was never chopped up/changed. same lines as when my Grandfather built this modest home from the ground up. My ORIGINAL post indicated I had the County letter and was going to call to get more info…I updated all along when I spoke with them and it was a road frontage set back alteration. and I updated they can set their home 15 ft. from our line, regardless of anything. and that I felt that was that.

[skydy]

@ayrabz

@Mango: you are exactly right. if they can put a building 15 ft. from the line, they can. plain and simple. Which is where/when I realized I would not ‘argue’ with the variance to the road.

Septic: County laws and well: again, these have restrictions and building codes in place. If the county allows and approves them is their job. I won’t have any case to argue anything beyond their codes. but @jawa: I too thought of septic and well and where it would go-----but has to be approved and to code, so we’ll see!

@Hungarian Hippo: I don’t know what you thought about how your post may be helpful? Our property is now going to be sandwiched between two lots that never were supposed to be allowed . the opposite side? original owner parceled out to a family member, which was allowed. Family member sold to a builder. we don’t have a 3 acre parcel there as required in this zoning…its barely over an acre. Once researched, while ‘wrong’ to the A-1 zoning rules, when I found this is a way around it and was / is allowed, I never went further and welcomed the new neighbors. Now the other side is sandwiching up against our property too, as similar as the other side since they bought a 3 acre parcel with about an acre to build on because of the RPA, and EVEN THAT they want an allowance on. Once I realized they can set their house 15 ft. from the line, I also gave up. what the law provides and protects I live by. these people have known our family for years. Not one call, not one second of sharing anything with us…we thought perhaps they had moved out of the area, since they’ve never been out to this property for years. Waist high weeds/undergrowth and dead trees, fallen … never mowed , bushogged, NOTHING even once a year…I was out cleaning the paddocks that adjoin their side and that is the one/only time I encountered that they were still alive and still intended to build and I WELCOMED them. I’m no whackko monster . I don’t know why the zoning has failed us on each side, but it IS WHAT IT IS. We researched ALL rules and I’m not moving my allowed fenceline. I didn’t ask for your judgement on all rules I had already followed to the letter in MY planning. WE didn’t ask for any variances. This was here, done, and was never chopped up/changed. same lines as when my Grandfather built this modest home from the ground up. My ORIGINAL post indicated I had the County letter and was going to call to get more info…I updated all along when I spoke with them and it was a road frontage set back alteration. and I updated they can set their home 15 ft. from our line, regardless of anything. and that I felt that was that.

I may be wrong, but think the gist of @HungarianHippo 's post was, try not to be angry. With small acreage parcels things like this can happen and there’s not much you can do about it. Good advice really.

I can understand why you are very disappointed but when you have small acreage parcels, good fences and/or vegetation are your only recourse.

It is amazing how real estate can be manipulated. A know of a gift of valuable land left via a Will, to a University, with the proviso that the land not be sold, but be used by the University. The provision of the Will was worked around by the University’s attorneys and the land is now a housing development. I think much less of the University now.

[ayrabz]

skydy: maybe some read the original post and just don’t follow updates. I can understand that. But point was I’ve never been unreasonable within the laws. I came here looking to hear from any that may have had adjacent property buyers want a special variance. I updated as I found out what was allowed for me to engage / act on. and what was simply not going to be to my advantage to argue about because its plain and simple ALLOWED. Her ‘help’ was not help at all, and was something that the updates already had covered. And it was SO positive and caringly shared.