From a trainers perspective, can’t tell you how many times people who are non pros and THINK they are experienced buy a huge POS and then want the trainer to fix all the problems. Many years riding, does not an expert make 
If the trainer is not finding suitable horses, find a new trainer who will. Be very clear about your needs, your budget, what you can live with, as no horse is perfect, and what you can’t do without. Much like buying a home. Then find a vet of your choice, and pay for the most thorough vet exam you can afford. Pay for a drug screen. Ask questions. If you can’t take the horse on trial, as often you cannot, watch the seller ride it, watch your trainer ride it, and ride it yourself. Video tape the whole thing. Ask more questions!
Not every trainer is out to hose people. If I have to live with a horse, and especially if I have to ride and show it, it damn well better be one that I like! THis is NOT an easy business to earn a living in, and it’s a dangerous one. If someone wants to come to my barn with a bad jumping, lame, or generally dangerous horse, I have the right to say no thanks to them. They can board with me, but until they buy an appropriate horse, don’t look to me to help…life’s too short.
And look, I’m not saying the horse has to cost 6 figures or whatever; a $5000 short stirrup pony is a treasure. But a beautiful, athletic, rank stopper or whatever the inappropriate thing may be with the horse can cost you everything.
Done with my rant. Amen.
And yes, you can tell if a horse is lame by a video. So there.
[QUOTE=kirbydog;7797424]
And yes, you can tell if a horse is lame by a video. So there.[/QUOTE]
That has to be one of the most ignorant posts I have ever read on this forum, and that’s saying a lot. Really? When and where did you graduate from vet school?
You can diagnose if a horse is lame from a video? Three legged head bobbing lame, yes, but kinda sorta off? What if the video in question shows the horse cantering a course, but not trotting? You can tell if the horse is lame from that video???
I have never consulted a trainer when purchasing a horse. My daughter always took lessons with an outside trainer (she wouldn’t listen to me and it saved family drama). I always purchased all of our horses, no input from trainers, no commissions. It’s my money. I know what I want/need. I don’t need to pay someone to tell me what I want/need. None of those trainers ever had an issue with any horses I bought. In fact they bought some horses from me.
I’m new around here but read a lot and joined recently as my daughter got more serious this year. We are in the process of buying a new horse now as well and I couldn’t imagine not involving the trainer. You spend all this money on board, lessons, horse training maybe, showing…and then you would want to save a couple of pennies by not including the Pro that you’re already paying an arm and a leg to for all of the above? Just sounds pretty foolish to me.
Granted, some of you may be experts and can buy a horse for your child that you know is suitable, but for the VAST majority of us as parents…saving 10% on a 50K horse seems foolish. I trust our trainer has our best interest at heart…she doesn’t want to buy one horse…she wants to buy and sell many horses for us as we progress through the levels. She doesn’t want her barn showing some flaky horse that reflects poorly on her ability or her name…it’s in her best interest for her to find the best horse for your child within the budget and discussions that have been set.
We have seen many horses…some really gorgeous horses…some at the very top of our dollar range and trainer told us…it’s not the right match for my child. For someone else it’s going to be great, just not us, not today. Maybe our trainer is rare, special even…but why else would you work with a trainer and pay 15-30K a year for all the above if you’re not going to trust their decision in buying your next horse.
Anyway…this all seemed to get off topic of the OP which was a conflict between trainer and horse buyer…but if I wasn’t on the same page with my trainer for whatever reason, I would be looking for a new trainer.
[QUOTE=Prime Time Rider;7797445]
That has to be one of the most ignorant posts I have ever read on this forum, and that’s saying a lot. Really? When and where did you graduate from vet school?
You can diagnose if a horse is lame from a video? Three legged head bobbing lame, yes, but kinda sorta off? What if the video in question shows the horse cantering a course, but not trotting? You can tell if the horse is lame from that video???[/QUOTE]
Uh. yah. If you cant see a horse limping, moving short or unevenly, ask a pro. And no, you don;t have to be a vet to see one lame. Nor did I say that i was diagnosing the lameness. I see videos of lame horses all the time. And to clarify, i was not referring to a video of a horse only jumping a course (although you can frequently see problems there too, with the movement and jump) but to a video that someone would present for a sale.
Is this a boarding barn with an available but not required trainer? Or a training barn operated by a trainer? Makes a difference.
Hard to give advice on second hand information as well. Need to know exactly what friends arrangement with trainer is regarding finding a horse and commissions.
Its possible friend might be better off looking for another trainer before buying a horse from or through her current one.
[QUOTE=asterix;7796774]
This is fairly discipline specific, it seems. Lots of amateurs in the eventing world go try horses on their own. When I shop I send video if available to my dressage coach. If she doesn’t say ick (and she doesn’t charge me for the 5 minutes it takes her to look at the video - we’ve been together a long time), I’ll go ride the horse. If I like the horse, THEN I will show jump trainer video or in some cases have trainer see or sit on horse. I pay for their time. That way they have no financial incentive one way or the other about any specific horse.
This is not that unusual in the eventing world.[/QUOTE]
This is approximately how it worked when we were briefly looking for a horse for me when I was younger. We had to pay the trainer for his time going to see a horse, so we’d make contact and go first and check it out. (I didn’t ride on the first visit because of my age - asking someone to let an unsupervised teenager ride seemed inappropriate given my level of skill.) If I felt generally comfortable with the horse (might’ve asked to do some grooming or something, can’t remember) then we’d decide about arranging for the trainer to come out.
Enough horses aren’t what they are advertised as that if we’d taken the trainer to every single one we wouldn’t have had any money left to buy the horse! (We were not looking at super high end horses. $$$$ not $$$,$$$.) This was at a primarily dressage barn.
I am an amateur who has never purchased a horse with the help of a trainer. Granted, my situation is unique because by the first time I was able to buy my own horse I was in a relationship with my now husband and living on their farm where they buy and sell horses regularly.
We mostly sell QHs and Paints, with the occasional TB or WB thrown in. We have had a few nice 2’6 - 3’ hunters and jumpers come through our barn that we sold. What we have found is that if we are “in” with a trainer, they will bring students to us and purchase horses from us on a regular basis, but if someone just finds us and brings their trainer with them who we have no pre-established relationship with, that student is immediately told by their trainer that they need to go to a different, “more serious” H/J barn.
Your trainer’s relationship with the sellers is very important and can stop you from buying an otherwise suitable horse. Sad, but true.
I’m not a player in any situation like this…no longer teach or train, so just my honest opinion…when you start riding with a new trainer/instructor, you bring your current horse and you and trainer deal with it. As time goes on “you” are taught to be so reliant on trainer that you can’t even pick out your own horse!! Back in the old days riders were taught to “think” for themselves and learn how to choose the best horse for their own use. Modern practices have changed all of that and now it’s about everyone getting a piece of the purchase price. Putting my flame suit on and crawling back in my corner, now!!
I bought my current horse without the help of a trainer, although I did enlist the help of an well respected agent.
I did ask my trainer (at the time) for help, after I brought up the fact that I didn’t think my horse was working out and wanted to find something more suitable. The trainer understood and discussed the pros and cons with staying with that horse vs. finding something else. I was proactive about bringing up the subject of commission structure, paying for their time in looking, etc. They seemed eager to help in the beginning, but in the end, they showed me one horse, came with me to look at another that I found, but things petered out after that. I did most of the searching myself, asked them to review videos (offering to pay for their time), but it never went anywhere.
I enlisted the help of an agent after I looked for a few months on my own and didn’t find anything that felt right. Within a short period of time, the agent found me a wonderful horse, that GHM and a well-known “O” dressage judge both said was an “excellent match” when they worked with us in clinics.
In the end, I think my trainer wasn’t much help because they were extremely busy and the ~10% commission wasn’t tempting enough.
I would have thought my former trainer would have been more involved, but for some I think it’s more about teaching and training. It doesn’t really make sense to me because if they are going to end up working with the horse their client buys, why not be more involved to insure it’s a happy partnership?
[QUOTE=kirbydog;7797422]
From a trainers perspective, can’t tell you how many times people who are non pros and THINK they are experienced buy a huge POS and then want the trainer to fix all the problems. Many years riding, does not an expert make
If the trainer is not finding suitable horses, find a new trainer who will. Be very clear about your needs, your budget, what you can live with, as no horse is perfect, and what you can’t do without. Much like buying a home. Then find a vet of your choice, and pay for the most thorough vet exam you can afford. Pay for a drug screen. Ask questions. If you can’t take the horse on trial, as often you cannot, watch the seller ride it, watch your trainer ride it, and ride it yourself. Video tape the whole thing. Ask more questions!
Not every trainer is out to hose people. If I have to live with a horse, and especially if I have to ride and show it, it damn well better be one that I like! THis is NOT an easy business to earn a living in, and it’s a dangerous one. If someone wants to come to my barn with a bad jumping, lame, or generally dangerous horse, I have the right to say no thanks to them. They can board with me, but until they buy an appropriate horse, don’t look to me to help…life’s too short.
And look, I’m not saying the horse has to cost 6 figures or whatever; a $5000 short stirrup pony is a treasure. But a beautiful, athletic, rank stopper or whatever the inappropriate thing may be with the horse can cost you everything.
Done with my rant. Amen.[/QUOTE]
From a customers perspective, not every non pro is useless at finding nice horses.
[QUOTE=doublesstable;7798373]
From a customers perspective, not every non pro is useless at finding nice horses.[/QUOTE]
No. But a beginner looking for a specific type of horse of a specific color…
Unless the buyer wants to spend $1,000 for a purple unicorn…it’s their money, their choice. I find that beginner/amateur riders have “dreams” to fulfill and the looks of the horse are very important. The higher the level of the riders the less importance there is to color/markings. If the trainer is not so inclined to find a quiet horse of a certain color they need to speak up and put their hands in their pockets when the commission time comes!! There are agents that do nothing but find horses. When potential buyers call me looking for a particular horse, I ask…sex, size, level of energy= (rider’s ability and confidence level), color preference or what they WON’T take and top dollar of their budget. If the desires are too far out, I pass on the search.
Trainers that insist on being involved are exactly the ones who should not be involved. Do the poor seller a favor and leave the trainer at home. From a distance I’ve watched trainers ruin many sales (for selfish reasons) and I always think to myself, “I would be mortified if that was my trainer”.
A higher level rider will always take their trainer along and pay them for their time, that goes without saying and at that point a serious trainer and client don’t have to discuss this, it goes without saying. A lower level, less serious rider generally knows what they want, and what they want may or may not be realistic or suitable for them, but it is their money and their decision. Nobody has any right to tell someone what they can and can’t do with their hard earned $.
If I want to go to the mall and buy a string bikini, that’s exactly what I’m going to do. Is a string bikini suitable for my age and body type? NO. But if that is what I want and I can afford it, nobody has the right to stop me, not even my husband or friends who would be the unfortunate ones how would have to witness me wearing it.
I guess I’m confused. Is this YOUR trainer, or just someone who trains at the barn you board at? I board my horse but do not ride with the trainer that owns the farm. I would never base her opinion on what kind of horse I buy, she has no input.
[QUOTE=aloysha;7796775]
Thsi is a very odd situation, where trainer is not helping to find horses, except for this one very unsuitable horse, which belomgs to another client. But still feels the need to be included in every aspect, even though will not go to trial horses, will not help find horses, the whole situation is just odd. Trainer was upset because buyer called another barn with horses for sale nearby, and told buyer that that kind of thing was just not done. Trainer would call, and set things up, just more professional that way. But trainer doesn’t do it. Buyer would like a horse sooner rather that later, and can’t wait for trainer to get ass in gear![/QUOTE]
Whether the trainer is right that OP’s friend is just finding POS horses or not - it sounds as if trainer is pushing one and only one horse, which client apparently doesn’t want (or else, since client does want a horse, client would’ve bought).
Trainer is not working to find a horse client would want. Just nixing all of client’s potential choices, while pushing one, and only one, horse.
Which happens to belong to another client.
Commission on both ends? Seriously, what other reason would there be for wanting client to only buy this particular horse and no other? Client sounds like they’d be amenable to buying another horse through trainer, but trainer ain’t interested.
[QUOTE=alibi_18;7798488]
No. But a beginner looking for a specific type of horse of a specific color…[/QUOTE]
I was responding to a comment that said - many non pros THINK they know and buy a POS - I wasn’t really talking about beginners.
However, anyone can hang a shingle on their tack room door and call themselves a trainer. I find this quite common with beginner trainers (I have seen many where I lived that scared me) and I feel bad for their clueless clients that they try to manipulate to stay with them as if they are God.
Now I know that is not every beginner type trainer; because bad and good is everywhere.
So what if someone wants to spend money on a particular color of horse. I have wanted a particular color. When I was new to horses my family purchased two amazing horses without a trainer that I had for a very long time.
I also understand the frustration some trainers can have with clients that are not doing themselves any favors - but with any good trainer; beginner or advanced they should work with the person spending their money. It should be a cohesive choice on the horse purchased in the end.
I didn’t use my trainer at the time when I was horse shopping. I went down to look at some horses, fell in love with one, brought him home the next day. I did call ahead so he knew I was bringing a horse back with me
Best horse I’ve ever had, perfect match.
Based on what the OP has said*, this trainer sounds shady to me. Just the fact that she continues to push a horse that the buyer has already indicated that she is not interested in and doesn’t seem to be seeking out any alternatives raises red flags for me.
Trainers fall along the full quality spectrum, from dishonest hucksters to guardian angels. The problem for the OP’s friend (and for the industry in general) is that beginners (and even some non-beginners) can’t tell the difference.
It seems to me that the OP’s friend has a problem more fundamental than not being able to find a suitable horse to buy. Before she buys a horse, she needs to find a better trainer and boarding facility.
And there’s nothing inherently wrong with wanting a specific color. Perhaps, for example, a person’s best friends ride Paints and are very active in the local Paint club, which is a fantastic group of people. So, person wants a Paint so she can be part of this group. Although, honestly, I think “I’ve always loved gray horses and I want a gray horse,” is a perfectly valid reason for buying a gray horse, assuming said horse is otherwise suitable.
*Several people have offered alternative scenarios in which the trainer is great and OP and OP’s friend are simply clueless beginners. Sure, that could be the case, but all I can go on is what the OP says and base my reply on the assumption that what the OP has recounted is an accurate assessment of the situation.
