Buying a new horse.... what is 'normal' for barn sourness?

[Big_Grey_hunter]

[QUOTE=AKB;7796683]

Keep looking until you find a calm horse who can leave the barn and return uneventfully. I can’t imagine putting up with jigging and fussing on every ride. My brief experience with the screaming reminded me of how much I appreciate good horse behavior.[/QUOTE]

Whose talking about jigging or fussing? OP specifically said…

“But when I took him out for a test trail ride, he kept trying to look behind him and bend his shoulder back towards the barn. Then heading home, the motor kicked in and he power walked all the way back. No jigging or dangerous behavior or anything, but definitely wanted to get back to the barn.”

Sorry, but walking faster on the way home and looking behind them on the way out is pretty normal, especially for a brand new rider

[KIloBright]

I expect a horse to leave or go towards home, on a loose rein, and at the speed I ask for
Sure, haul them somewhere, and a barn sour horse will be less so, as that barn is no where in sight!
One way to create a barn sour horse, is to immediately feed them or turn them out with buddies when they get home.
Instead, tie them up for awhile (an hour at least ), or as suggested, work them hard around home
No calling. If a horse is calling, his mind is back with his buddies in the field, and not with you, as is his feeling of safety, which should be transferred to you whenever you work or ride him
No, I don’t think your expectations are un reasonable, and you also can’t expect a new horse to immediately have that total trust in you, but if he has the basics, then with the correct riding/handling you can create such a horse as you are looking for.
NOne of mine ever call, either leaving home or coming back, and I mostly ride alone,e sp out from home

[candysgirl]

My very seasoned trail horse moves faster toward ‘home’ - barn/trailer/camp/whatever home base is that day. He’s not bratty about it, but he is definitely a little more forward. I think just about every horse will be. He is never bratty about it though. If I ask him to slow down, he will. I accept power walking as okay. Jigging, being a jerk, not listening, etc.? Definitely not.

[mountainhorse]

Like others have advised, there are many factors put to play here as well as you try new horses that will affect that behavior to take into consideration:

1. new rider, and yes, horses will know and if they have not established that trust with you as their new rider completely yet, it is totally understandable. Who is to say once you get to know each other and have a mutual trust going on, that ‘increased walk’ will diminish?
2. training. A horse you like in every other aspect that you are trying out, and they walk a little faster (otherwise halting and turning from the barn as asked, no issues there), can be easily worked with to correct that. You can invest a little time to work on it and it will get better/diminish.

I have tried one new horse in my lifetime that did not in some way increase his walk or care if he was going back to the barn, which was a surprise but no biggie. He was a loving guy that just melted into your arms and obviously trusted his riders well. (He unfortunately didn’t pass PPE, otherwise a GEM of a horse. Absolute gem).

[SuckerForHorses]

My favorite horse that I looked at so far is an 8 year old morgan gelding. I do arena riding too, and he was a nice boy in the arena. But when I took him out for a test trail ride, he kept trying to look behind him and bend his shoulder back towards the barn. Then heading home, the motor kicked in and he power walked all the way back. No jigging or dangerous behavior or anything, but definitely wanted to get back to the barn.

As long as he’s not unwilling to keep going (referring the looking back over his shoulder), then I think that’s pretty normal. Horses are herd animals so I think its likely in their nature to check out to see if someone is coming along with them for herd protection.

My expectations are that I don’t have to fight to get them to leave, and I don’t have to fight them on the way home. It sounds like this guy meets that criteria - a power walk is fine, but wanting to run the whole way home is not.

[SuckerForHorses]

IMO, your expectations are a tad high here. Most horses, even the best ones, are by nature going to want to get back to the herd as quickly as possible. The fact that he didn’t refuse to leave them, and contained his excitement to a walk on the way home (albeit a power walk) is very impressive to me. I would be thrilled with this behavior.

My gelding has never been one for jigging home; he just never has. And I don’t board, so when I ride, it’s to trail ride right form home. And he does know the trails - like the back of his hoof. He does not pick up his walking speed until the last hill before home. He is allowed to walk as fast as he wants; if he steps it up a notch anything more than a walk, I put him to work on a circle. I’ve only had to do this maybe three times?

The hill before home is a great place for a little canter - I NEVER canter up the hill and then return home. There is a hill, then the driveway, then another LOOONG hill - if I canter up the first hill, I continue on past the driveway, and make him walk ALLLL THE WAY to the top of the next hill, before I turn him around and walk home. He never jigs.

[alto]

[QUOTE=tinyrider;7793290]

My favorite horse that I looked at so far is an 8 year old morgan gelding. I do arena riding too, and he was a nice boy in the arena. But when I took him out for a test trail ride, he kept trying to look behind him and bend his shoulder back towards the barn. Then heading home, the motor kicked in and he power walked all the way back. No jigging or dangerous behavior or anything, but definitely wanted to get back to the barn. As soon as the barn popped into view, he gave a little whinny out to his friends.[/QUOTE]

What happened when you asked for a more forward departure?

What happened when you asked for a more relaxed pace homewards?

I don’t think your expectations are too high, yes, horses are more forward going home but they should still be open & listening, you shouldn’t need to constantly check the pace … maybe horse was less confident with you, easy way to check this, just watch the owner ride out & come back in after a “normal” ride ie don’t make this test ride too short etc.

You might find this excellent summary PSSM article hosted on the Morgan Dressage Association interesting … now that it’s so available, I’d add the blood screen to my PPE

(as a comparative, FP who I’d never consider a “trail horse”, heads out very happily, leaving barn & mates behind without a backward glance, going home, he will do a nice active walk but nothing like a “power walk”, no calling, no antics if you walk on past the barn gate.
Only times he’s been slow/reluctant/not forward heading out from the barn, turned out he’s not feeling well.
Many of the horses that go out from the barn seem equally happy heading out & polite coming back in.
What’s the point of being at a barn with fantastic trails if your horse spends his time worrying about home rather than enjoying where he is … it’s obvious that FP loves the beach (gallop!) the forest (gallop!) the cross-country (gallop! + jumps!!!) )

[saratoga]

[QUOTE=cutter99;7793553

Mine is a horse that does not want to leave the barn area, actively tries to turn around and go back, whinnies or screams for other horses, bolts or spooks towards the barn in attemps to go back, uses behaviors like bucking or rearing to try to get back. [/QUOTE]

This is what I consider barn sour. I used to lease a horse like that! Not fun to deal with at all and I wouldn’t buy a horse that was confirmed in that behavior…

I don’t consider walking faster on the way back to be barn sour. I agree that many horses do it…with my 2 arabs its a good thing because Id rather ride a fast purposeful walk than a meandering one. My tb. can get a bit jiggy which I don’t care for, but if I stay relaxed, he drops down pretty quickly.

[DaniW]

There are a lot of horses out there for sale; you might as well wait for the right one to come along. My horse is on rest/ rehab right now and I rode a school horse for a lesson last week and the only thing I did not like about that horse was that he sped up dramatically when pointed back to the barn. He listened to me well enough but if I was buying a prospect, I’d have passed on him .

edited to add that a purposeful walk is fine, but looking back toward the barn on the way out, calling for his buddies on the way back and a walk that feels like he’s going to bolt if he thinks he can get away with it, not fine.

[tinyrider]

Update

First, thanks to all who replied, I appreciated all the advice and feedback. I want to especially thank ClassyRide, I found her advice to be the most helpful when she suggested I ask myself “If he never gets any better-behaved than this, am I alright with that?” When I asked myself that question, the answer was “No”.

And so I passed on the morgan… and I am so happy that I did! Just a few short weeks later, I found my super pony. My new pony astonishingly matched every single criteria on my wish list, including the lack of barn sour behavior. When I took him for a test trail ride straight from his barn, he left at a brisk pace, ears forward, willing and engaged with me. He never tried to turn around, look back, drop his shoulder, or call to his buddies. Coming home, he never sped up and remained happy and calm. The ONLY thing I had to correct him on was he kept trying to sneak snacks from the low lying leafy tree branches :lol: While I now know that his behavior can be considered ‘exceptional’ rather than ‘normal’, in the end I am very happy that I stuck to my high standards and expectations. I don’t know if there is a moral to this story other than ‘Horse shopping is never easy’, but I love hearing about happy endings, so I thought I’d share mine. Hopefully I won’t be horse shopping again for very long time.

Happy trails!

[ClassyRide]

That is FABULOUS, tinyrider! I am SO, SO HAPPY FOR YOU!!! Congratulations on finding your perfect pony!!!

May we please have pictures??? I’m dieing to see him! Sounds like he’s a total keeper. I love the story about him trying to grab snacks along the way. LOL Sounds like a sweet little character. <3

[saratoga]

Congratulations!

[DJohn]

Glad to hear you found “the one”. Some horses are happier on the trails! That’s just the way it is

[Sparrowette]

I’ll second Classy! Pictures are in order!

Congratulations!

[meupatdoes]

If you are half halting constantly and its not having any effect, then you need a bigger half halt.

I do a lot of trail riding with my horses for fitness work and the one that I started myself began his career doing 10 minutes of arena work practicing “go steer and stop” and then heading out to walk the trails. If I have access to it I like to tag 40 minutes to an hour of briskly walking the trails to the end of a school a couple of times a week to build a solid fitness base. (They are hunters/dressage horses, not eventers, so that’s plenty for them.)

Barn sourness has never been an issue. In the arena, my seat dictates the pace. If they blow through one half halt they get a bigger one. If they try to do some weird bending thing I tell them hang your head on straight. Maybe they would get barn sour if given the opportunity, but in the arena I pick out a path that we will ride in a straight line at the pace I choose and the same philosophy works well on the trails. They know their job is to carry on in a straight line between my legs and stay politely under my seat so we can hack nicely on a loose rein and the slightest reminder is plenty.

If the horse is barn sour, train it to go on the path that you choose in a straight line at the pace you choose. They can all learn this.

[Lilykoi]

Congrats! Nothing like a true blue pony!
I have to say, after reading all the posts, I’m surprised more people didn’t agree with you on your expectations.
I have a barn full of Quarter Horses that we just pleasure ride. Not one of them is barn sour. They can be ridden alone, in company, behind, in front, doesn’t matter. If anything, they go out a little brighter than they come back. They seem to enjoy their work. I’ve had TBs, Saddlebreds, doesn’t matter. They were all good. Happy trails!

[alto]

[QUOTE=Lilykoi;7825024]
Congrats! Nothing like a true blue pony!
I have to say, after reading all the posts, I’m surprised more people didn’t agree with you on your expectations.
I have a barn full of Quarter Horses that we just pleasure ride. Not one of them is barn sour. They can be ridden alone, in company, behind, in front, doesn’t matter. If anything, they go out a little brighter than they come back. They seem to enjoy their work. I’ve had TBs, Saddlebreds, doesn’t matter. They were all good. Happy trails![/QUOTE]

^ this exactly :yes: