Buying an Event Horse for Use in the Jumper Ring: Good Option or Not?

[Calvincrowe]

Bornfree- I’m fairly well connected to the event world in the PNW and the Training and below horses I know generally don’t have taught changes at all. They might change naturally, but there are very few who are trained to do a change when asked by a rider. A few prelim horses have achieved that, more so than lower level horses, but still…it’s not a thing they worry much about IME. I guess it’s different here for the amateurs who are doing it pretty much on their own-- there aren’t many “programs” where a trainer is creating event horses.

That being said, I’d still look at the event world with an eye to the points brought up here. And a decent, careful Prelim (3’6"-4’) event horse isn’t going to be cheap, and will require a bit of further training/tuning to be ready for the 1.20s.

[phippsie62]

Thank you, everyone. These are great points to consider. If Prelim. is still the name used to refer to horses that jump 3’6" in the xc and sj phases, what is expected at a CCI 1 star level?

[Highflyer]

Prelim is 3’7, and the FEI equivalent is now 2*. The USEF equivalent of the 1* is now the new Modified level which jumps 3’5.

[BeeHoney]

I think you should ask this question on the H/J forum. I think you would get a different viewpoint there. I personally would not specifically shop for a jumper for a nervous adult amateur (or junior) from the event world. I would instead look for a horse with more specific training for the jumper ring, with qualities that made it suitable for the rider in question.

In this instance, you are shopping for a person who has had bad show experiences due to unsuitable horses. So I think that item #1 on your shopping list should be to buy something that has proven its suitability at the specific task you are choosing it for.

[Blugal]

@phippsie62

Thank you, everyone. These are great points to consider. If Prelim. is still the name used to refer to horses that jump 3’6" in the xc and sj phases, what is expected at a CCI 1 star level?

As of 2019, the FEI renamed its level for Prelim as a 2-star. However from 2018 back, it was a 1-star. The FEI level has longer and more technical XC courses at Prelim heights, and the show jumping is up to 3’9 whereas a non-FEI Prelim Horse Trial has show jumping a maximum of 3’7. Hope that helps.

[WildLittleWren]

@BeeHoney

I think you should ask this question on the H/J forum. I think you would get a different viewpoint there. I personally would not specifically shop for a jumper for a nervous adult amateur (or junior) from the event world. I would instead look for a horse with more specific training for the jumper ring, with qualities that made it suitable for the rider in question.

In this instance, you are shopping for a person who has had bad show experiences due to unsuitable horses. So I think that item #1 on your shopping list should be to buy something that has proven its suitability at the specific task you are choosing it for.

I have to agree with this. I would try and find something that has already shown suitability for the jumper ring so that your daughter’s confidence is not rattled again. JMO. Not that event horses can’t make fantastic jumpers, but I think in this case, it would be best to buy something that is already going around doing its job well.

[Xctrygirl]

Coming here as a current jumper rider who was an eventer and is still an amateur I would say that there’s less of a discipline specific need for a good jumper to do the heights you’re mentioning. What I think should be the primary goal is a horse that your daughter feels confident on. That’s #1. But the bigger question is does she want to compete (in jumpers) for the fun of the sport or to win a lot? That’s where you need to decide if the horse from another discipline is a better priced option (usually OMG yes) or if she doesn’t want to just play for the game but wants some return then I would suggest finding a lease on someone’s older unicorn that still is afraid of the tiniest splinter of wood near it’s body.

You absolutely can find less expensive horses that would do the job brilliantly, but you will likely have to find the compromises that you can live with. The best ones I have found that can save you the most are:

Find a fabulous mare vs a gelding

Take a lovely horse without chrome or in the dreaded Chestnut color

Find one sub 16 hands

Find one that doesn’t come from a ‘name’ barn

Find one that is a brilliant jumper but hasn’t necessarily done a ton of showing

Here are the things you should avoid compromising on:

Anything that had a suspensory injury. (Not saying that they’re all bad but I wouldn’t want to pay all the enormous amount of money that we pay in jumpers to ride something that has 1 strike against it in the soundness area)

Anything that has had a shaky past with refusals, rider falls at any level. A fair number of the flunked out grand prix horses sometimes get marketed to be ammy horses and some just don’t do well at it.

Anything that doesn’t match with what they’re telling you about it. Ex: “It’s got 1.40 experience” but no one can find a show record/video/pics to prove it. Oh he’s only 10 years old, but they’re no papers, microchip etc. (I still laugh that I was able to find 3 different USEF names/numbers for the exact same horse. I figured it out but none of his 3 connections had realized it. [Side vent… Register your horses CORRECTLY and include the name they go by when you buy them. AND include their correct relatives in the pedigree]

I think it’s still pretty easy to find what you’re looking for. Far more so if you and your daughter/trainer can consider a tb.

Emily

[clanter]

@PNWjumper

From a jumper’s perspective - two reasons: 1) water and 2) carefulness

Carefulness is the opposite of boldness - not saying a bold horse can’t be careful, but a horse that’s too careful doesn’t typically make a great eventer. On the other hand, a horse that’s too bold often doesn’t make a good jumper.

.

that was my daughter’s eventer… stadium jumps were no challenge so he often would plow through them but could easily clear a fixed jump

[bornfreenowexpensive]

@Calvincrowe

Bornfree- I’m fairly well connected to the event world in the PNW and the Training and below horses I know generally don’t have taught changes at all. They might change naturally, but there are very few who are trained to do a change when asked by a rider. A few prelim horses have achieved that, more so than lower level horses, but still…it’s not a thing they worry much about IME. I guess it’s different here for the amateurs who are doing it pretty much on their own-- there aren’t many “programs” where a trainer is creating event horses.

That being said, I’d still look at the event world with an eye to the points brought up here. And a decent, careful Prelim (3’6"-4’) event horse isn’t going to be cheap, and will require a bit of further training/tuning to be ready for the 1.20s.

I don’t know about the PNW but that isn’t the hot bed of Eventing. Here in Area II where they is a lot of Eventing and many good programs…most of the horses (being developed by experienced pros or amateurs) will have decent changes before training level (1 m). Yes…there will be some without…but most will. But they will not be drilled to be automatic like hunters because we also eventually have to have counter canter in dressage (at Prelim) and changes in dressage at Advanced…which you have to start schooling before those levels.

op: Again…MOST Eventers in good programs WILL have pure SJ experience. Especially at the levels you are talking about. There are lots of show people who are trying to sell a huge price take tag tell you otherwise. But it’s not true. I’ve had several horses who competed in the Child/Aduts AND event. If I have a sales horse who I think may be better as a jumper…first thing I do is ALSO take them to some jumper shows. I am not alone. No…we will not be chasing year end points…but you will find a lot of event horses with jumper experience. But just like anything…if the horse looks to have potential to go up the levels…they will be more expensive than what you need. Your focus should be finding a horse that your daughter can gain confidence and experience even if she out grows that horse…not go up the levels. That horse that will both give her confidence and take her up the levels is an expensive unicorn in any discipline.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

@phippsie62

Thank you, everyone. These are great points to consider. If Prelim. is still the name used to refer to horses that jump 3’6" in the xc and sj phases, what is expected at a CCI 1 star level?

The new CCI1* is equivalent to a new national level called Modified. The SJ heights are 3’5”

but there may be many event horses jumping 3’6”+ in SJ who are NOT yet competing at Prelim or modified (or any * level). Often if they are selling or aiming them at a SJ home instead of Eventing is they don’t have the dressage or XC to move up but may be SJ at levels above what they are Eventing. You shouldn’t be concerned with what they do as an event horse…see how they feel and fit for your daughter as a jumper…unless you think she may also want to do lower level Eventing.

[phippsie62]

I really should have been clearer about my daughter’s age and goals: She’s an adult amateur looking for a horse with the possibility of jumping 1.30 courses. I assume a horse with that profile is going to cost a lot, whether purchased from an h/j barn or an eventing barn. She doesn’t necessarily need a horse proven at that level, just one who might get there. But even if they never make it to 1.30, fun and versatility are her top priorities.

I’m taking to heart what several people have said on this thread–that just because a horse has evented doesn’t mean they’re the no-spook, never-stop types I assumed they must be in order to manage those extremely fun but gnarly-looking xc courses at the gallop. My daughter would love to do some xc riding and maybe some lower-level dressage, along with her major focus in jumpers and possibly derbies. Points and ribbons don’t mean much to her, but putting in a good round on a steady eddy, “I got this” type would be her dream, along with learning and moving up the levels from the 3’3" where she’s competed so far.

In h/j land, it seems like the reliable horses that know their job at 1.30 or even 1.20 run in the six figures. That’s why a cross-trained eventer does have appeal, not only for the more reasonable price but for the training.

[Xctrygirl]

@phippsie62

I really should have been clearer about my daughter’s age and goals: She’s an adult amateur looking for a horse with the possibility of jumping 1.30 courses. I assume a horse with that profile is going to cost a lot, whether purchased from an h/j barn or an eventing barn. She doesn’t necessarily need a horse proven at that level, just one who might get there. But even if they never make it to 1.30, fun and versatility are her top priorities.

I’m taking to heart what several people have said on this thread–that just because a horse has evented doesn’t mean they’re the no-spook, never-stop types I assumed they must be in order to manage those extremely fun but gnarly-looking xc courses at the gallop. My daughter would love to do some xc riding and maybe some lower-level dressage, along with her major focus in jumpers and possibly derbies. Points and ribbons don’t mean much to her, but putting in a good round on a steady eddy, “I got this” type would be her dream, along with learning and moving up the levels from the 3’3" where she’s competed so far.

In h/j land, it seems like the reliable horses that know their job at 1.30 or even 1.20 run in the six figures. That’s why a cross-trained eventer does have appeal, not only for the more reasonable price but for the training.

Ok so this is less feasible for a junior BUT my current jumper has made it with me to 1.35 and we have goals of the 1.40 in the future. I bought him with 1.20 experience and I had 1.20 experience.

I imported him myself from England. No trainers. No agents. He cost me $13k USD + $7800 shipping/quarantine. You really don’t have to pay the ridiculous prices. Even if you work with a realistic trainer, without 6 figure commission stars in their eyes, and look around a bit there are bargains. I will say, and others can say it better, but 1.30 can be a mountain away for some 1.20 horses. My advice would be to handle the goals at the moment and if the horse you get can handle more, great. But sometimes the 1.30 stuff seems to take a different horse than the 'get established" at bigger jumpers horse. That’s just what I have been seeing in my time watching the comings and goings around me as I am getting used to this jumper world.

Good luck.

Em

[cedarlake]

When I was a jumper I bought an event horse. I believe he was novice perhaps? I bought him for $4500… BEST horse I ever sat on and a TB. He took care of me completely. I jumped 3’6 ish but he had PLENTY left for 4ft+. Sorry, I’m not up to date with the meters.

I then sold him to his forever home where he evented again before he retired.

[Xctrygirl]

@cedarlake

Sorry, I’m not up to date with the meters.

1m-3’3"
1.05m - 3’5"
1.10m - 3’7"
1.15 - 3’9"
1.20m - 3’11"
1.25 m - 4’1"
1.30m - 4’3"
1.35m - 4’5"
1.40m - 4’7"

[NMK]

What might prove to be a bit difficult is to review an event horse’s stadium record. Four faults could be a rail–or it could be a stop. If you see time faults, I might be inclined to think there was a stop somewhere. Its been said, but again: don’t assume a horse is brave because it jumps xc fences. Some are just very, very well prepared to answer those questions.

[Jump314]

@phippsie62

I really should have been clearer about my daughter’s age and goals: She’s an adult amateur looking for a horse with the possibility of jumping 1.30 courses…

Points and ribbons don’t mean much to her, but putting in a good round on a steady eddy, “I got this” type would be her dream, along with learning and moving up the levels from the 3’3" where she’s competed so far.

I don’t think the same horse will necessarily be able to help your daughter go from 3’3" to 1.30. That is an enormous difference in not only height, but ability level (of the rider). For a 1.30 horse to be evenly remotely affordable, it’s going to have some major quirks or soundness issues, and that’s what you are not looking for. You are probably better off getting a 1.10 - 1.15 horse for now, something that is sane and can help your daughter’s confidence. If she reaches the limits of that horse’s ability, then go look for something that can do more.

[Highflyer]

It’s also unlikely that the average Prelim horse has experience at that level, and if it can compete at that level with an amateur it’s probably not being marketed as an event horse.

[Fillabeana]

Might there be an event horse for sale, that would be great for your daughter to do jumpers with?
Yes.
Depends on the horse. And your daughter.

@Calvincrowe, I did some (recognized) eventing in Area 7 in the late 80s, Junior Novice, Junior Training. Beginner Novice was not yet A Thing. And a little rated dressage, some unrated hunters. I’d have done some low jumper classes if they’d been offered.

My mare would change leads (flying), probably, if I set her up really well to do it. Almost always, we got the lead over the jump (because I asked for that lead, in anticipation of a balanced turn to the next fence). And we did plenty of dressage, we had a counter canter. In fact, my mare usually got borrowed for the unrated hunter show’s flat equitation finals if I wasn’t riding, because she wouldn’t just change her lead if you were riding that counter canter. A confirmed hunter auto-change, we didn’t have.

I’m not sure what it looks like today, since I haven’t been to an event in a coon’s age. But I suspect that now, it looks like it did back then, in that there will be some very well schooled riders/horses…and some that get it done by the seat of their pants.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

@phippsie62

I really should have been clearer about my daughter’s age and goals: She’s an adult amateur looking for a horse with the possibility of jumping 1.30 courses. I assume a horse with that profile is going to cost a lot, whether purchased from an h/j barn or an eventing barn. She doesn’t necessarily need a horse proven at that level, just one who might get there. But even if they never make it to 1.30, fun and versatility are her top priorities.

In h/j land, it seems like the reliable horses that know their job at 1.30 or even 1.20 run in the six figures. That’s why a cross-trained eventer does have appeal, not only for the more reasonable price but for the training.

There are many many many event horses who are good at 1.2 and 1.3…to be a packer at that level whether an event horse or HJ is going to cost a lot more…and yes, those horses are often in the 6 figures even if they are event horses. I have a young mare just stepping up to 3* eventing…she has shown at 1.3 in jumpers as prep…real jumper shows. And that is VERY common for event horses of that level. But you don’t need a 1.2+ horse until your daughter is solid at 1.15…as has been said before…she needs to learn her own skills. Finding a horse to teach her the ropes at 3’6” maybe put to 1.15m is one horse…she needs that one FIRST…then look for the next horse to go beyond. And the difference in cost for those horses is substantial.

It really is NOT hard to find a horse with scope to do 1.3 meter…now to find one that can do that without being well ridden/produced…THAT is hard (finding a packer at that level)…and those unicorns are expensive regardless of disciplines. Don’t be looking for that horse with 1.3 potential now…she needs to just focus on the next step…as that jump from 3’3” to 3’6” is often quite a big one for people…her next horse should really just be taking her to 3’6”…maybe 3’9” (1.15). Those are going to be more affordable and easier to find. Then perhaps she will gain the skills to help her produce one up to 1.3 (rather than buy one going at that level).

[RainWeasley]

@phippsie62

I really should have been clearer about my daughter’s age and goals: She’s an adult amateur looking for a horse with the possibility of jumping 1.30 courses. I assume a horse with that profile is going to cost a lot, whether purchased from an h/j barn or an eventing barn. She doesn’t necessarily need a horse proven at that level, just one who might get there. But even if they never make it to 1.30, fun and versatility are her top priorities.

I’m taking to heart what several people have said on this thread–that just because a horse has evented doesn’t mean they’re the no-spook, never-stop types I assumed they must be in order to manage those extremely fun but gnarly-looking xc courses at the gallop. My daughter would love to do some xc riding and maybe some lower-level dressage, along with her major focus in jumpers and possibly derbies. Points and ribbons don’t mean much to her, but putting in a good round on a steady eddy, “I got this” type would be her dream, along with learning and moving up the levels from the 3’3" where she’s competed so far.

In h/j land, it seems like the reliable horses that know their job at 1.30 or even 1.20 run in the six figures. That’s why a cross-trained eventer does have appeal, not only for the more reasonable price but for the training.

I feel like it wouldnt be too hard to look up a potential horse’s eventing record and see how it did in the SJ phase. If it has a lot of rails, probably won’t be a good candidate.