I’d put my money on the Mongolians. They do it at Naadam every year anyway.
You know, if you look in all the topcompetitors stables you will find that 99% of them were bought and not as yearlings…
As far as I know the large stables might have youngster 5-6 yo but that they have jockeys hired only for the purpose to ride the younger horses. Not possible to combine topclass sport and bringing your own to the top.
The setup here is something like this:
- Stables were you breed
- Stables were you breed and break them and start them as 4 yo
- Stables were you buy nice 4 yo and start them in the youngsterclasses and sell them as 5-6 yo
- Stables who buy talented 5-6 yo and sell them as Sklass ready 7-8 yo
- Stables who buy the Sklasse ready 7-8 yo and takes them to topsport.
In some cases you combine two of the above, but never/seldom 1/2 and 5.
I know there is a Youngster Tour started in the US how is that doing? I think that´s your ticket to be selfsufficient! I´m sure that your breeding is as good as the European but considering the above the topcompetitors wants finished goods.
[QUOTE=Mardi;6478915]
Rafalca ? She’s been in the US for years, and has moved up the ladder nicely.
And Ravel is doing ok, wouldn’t you say ?[/QUOTE]
Ravel’s a pretty cool horse, and “what I’ve heard” is that he wasn’t a happy horse at all until he was (a) out of Gal’s barn and in Steffen Peters’, and (b) gelded. And Peters has had him since 2006, though one could argue that he was bought for the 2008 Olympics.
[QUOTE=Calvincrowe;6478913]
I’ve always thought that no matter how much money you spend on a horse…you still have to find the fences!! At 1.6 meters, a crappy ride/rider will not last long, no matter how much $$ was spent.
The countries that are “buying there way in” are doing it because they don’t have the long, long history that Northern European countries have—the show jumping heritage doesn’t exist in Saudi Arabia or Japan or Ukraine. In order to compete on the world stage, you have to start somewhere. Might as well be at the top.
At the end of the day, the rider still is out there alone with their mount. You aren’t riding a bank balance. You must have the training instilled in both rider and horse. I think it is brilliant that these “other” countries are finding a way to make the competition more exciting and truly ‘world’ class![/QUOTE]
Thank You!!! so dead on…this is such a tired commentary and frankly what u.s. riders don’t “buy” their way by being lucky to have the money or sponsors to have horses to be talented riders on…really any rider out there at this level is talented and also lucky to have the horses and training program behind them…sour grapes is not becoming…because other teams God forbid challenge the status quo…
Buying the best horses helps, but you need good horse/rider combinations and depth to create a whole team if it’s a winning team that a nation is trying to create.
It’s not much different than sports teams paying top dollar for athletes. Prime example is when LA bought (I believe the Oilers would prefer I use the -term trade, but whatever) Wayne Gretzky. You can buy the best player out there, but it doesn’t always help if don’t have a team behind them. LA never did win a Stanley Cup with Gretzky-got to the finals I believe, but never won.
OP–I assume you are referring to the Saudi’s? They have tons of money so they’ve purchased some of the nicest show jumping horses in the world right now. They aren’t terrible riders or anything, but it’s a little disheartening to think that they can just buy the best horses and think they are a shoe-in for the gold. Forgive my tone, they just aren’t my favorite for the following reasons:
Saudi Olympic show jumpers in doping probe
http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8453242
Saudi Rider Believes Team Horses Were Intentionally Doped to keep KSA from Olympics
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=355561&highlight=saudi
Saudi Riders get ban reduced, able to compete in Olympics
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=356854&highlight=saudi
Abdullah al Sharbatly, warning for "abuse to the horse
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=315026&highlight=sharbatly
I’m just going to state my opinion on Saudi’s escalade to topsport. Before this, I want to say I’m not a fan of doping in sport nor do I condone abuse. I believe in a fair trial for everyone, no matter what your wallet weighs (naive, huh?).
The on true difference between other countries and Saudi Arabia is that their National Federation has a plump budget. Their Federation put their pants on and went out to buy the necessary horses, paid for necessary expenses to keep said horses sound, on tour and fit, plus picked out their riders and gave them a salary to keep them focused on riding and not worrying about light bills, mortgage, if they win a prize this weekend to pay for hay, etc. With a big budget, they took the sport in their hands. Their Federation didn’t spend it on National Conventions, hotel bills, organizers. secretaries, printed magazines, etc. They spent it ON THE SPORT.
Federations should regulate the sport, promote it and sustain it. They should understand it is unfair to ask a rider/owner to keep the horse until XX show, on their expense and risk just for the sake of being part of the flag. The Saudis not only took the sport by the horns, but also did it in an organized way with time to spare (and with contingency plans, too). If you want a rider to be a part of a tour, then sign a contract and pay for expenses. That way, you can secure a team and train them more time than with a selection trial just six months before an Olympic venue. (The Saudis have been working towards this goal for 4 freakin’ years! That’s the way to do it!)
So, in conclusion, you need not only money, but decision to take on the task and do it in an orderly, well planned manner.
So please, lets stop talking out of envy and start following their footsteps.
If anyone wants to burn me now, go ahead. But I must warn you: I’m thousands of miles away. That’s why I can risk saying these things! HA!
[QUOTE=faraway46;6481769]
I’m just going to state my opinion on Saudi’s escalade to topsport. Before this, I want to say I’m not a fan of doping in sport nor do I condone abuse. I believe in a fair trial to everyone, no matter what your wallet weighs (naive, huh?).
The on true difference between other countries and Saudi Arabia is that their National Federation has a plump budget. Their Federation put their pants on and went out to buy the necessary horses, paid for necessary expenses to keep said horses sound, on tour and fit, plus picked out their riders and gave them a salary to keep them focused on riding and not worrying about light bills, mortgage, if they win a prize this weekend to pay for hay, etc. With a big budget, they took the sport in their hands. Their Federation didn’t spend it on National Conventions, hotel bills, organizers. secretaries, printed magazines, etc. They spent it ON THE SPORT.
Federations should regulate the sport, promote it and sustain it. They should understand it is unfair to ask a rider/owner to keep the horse until XX show, on their expense and risk just for the sake of being part of the flag. The Saudis not only took the sport by the horns, but also did it in an organized way with time to spare (and with contingency plans, too). If they want a rider to be a part of a tour, then sign a contract and pay for expenses. That way, you can secure a team and train them more time than with a selection trial just six months before an Olympic venue. (The Saudis have been working towards this goal for 4 freakin’ years! That’s the way to do it!)
So, in conclusion, you need not only money, but decision to take on the task and do it in an orderly, well planned manner.
So please, lets stop talking out of envy and start following their footsteps.
If anyone wants to burn me now, go ahead. But I must warn you: I’m thousands of miles away. That’s why I can risk saying these things! HA![/QUOTE]
Well said!
Just to put a dollar figure on the Saudi budget, the Canadian commentator said their budget for these Olympics was $40 million!!! I thought they rode quite well. I really wish there was more support for Canadian athletes though.
[QUOTE=faraway46;6481769]
I’m just going to state my opinion on Saudi’s escalade to topsport. Before this, I want to say I’m not a fan of doping in sport nor do I condone abuse. I believe in a fair trial to everyone, no matter what your wallet weighs (naive, huh?).
The on true difference between other countries and Saudi Arabia is that their National Federation has a plump budget. Their Federation put their pants on and went out to buy the necessary horses, paid for necessary expenses to keep said horses sound, on tour and fit, plus picked out their riders and gave them a salary to keep them focused on riding and not worrying about light bills, mortgage, if they win a prize this weekend to pay for hay, etc. With a big budget, they took the sport in their hands. Their Federation didn’t spend it on National Conventions, hotel bills, organizers. secretaries, printed magazines, etc. They spent it ON THE SPORT.
Federations should regulate the sport, promote it and sustain it. They should understand it is unfair to ask a rider/owner to keep the horse until XX show, on their expense and risk just for the sake of being part of the flag. The Saudis not only took the sport by the horns, but also did it in an organized way with time to spare (and with contingency plans, too). If they want a rider to be a part of a tour, then sign a contract and pay for expenses. That way, you can secure a team and train them more time than with a selection trial just six months before an Olympic venue. (The Saudis have been working towards this goal for 4 freakin’ years! That’s the way to do it!)
So, in conclusion, you need not only money, but decision to take on the task and do it in an orderly, well planned manner.
So please, lets stop talking out of envy and start following their footsteps.
If anyone wants to burn me now, go ahead. But I must warn you: I’m thousands of miles away. That’s why I can risk saying these things! HA![/QUOTE]
I see where you are coming from. If that was their intentions then I would agree with you that it is how it should be done, but neither of us really know for sure! 
Does KSA even have a “National Federation” paying for this? I thought most of their money was from royal money, the “Saudi Equestrian fund,” like what paid for the Nation’s cup series:
http://theequestriannews.com/2012/04/30/saudi-fund-fuels-nations-cup-series/
My personal issue is with what I had posted above in regards to the doping, how conveniently they were allowed to be in the Olympics by FEI president, Princess Haya, when anybody else would have been suspended on a more severe charge (suspicious–money involved? no way to know), and with the other link posted.
Like I mentioned–I see where you are coming from. However, are you saying that the country with the most money can therefore be the best if they just organize their resources accordingly? On the flip side, I will add that I did think they rode well. Oh well, either way I think I would be more happy for the Saudi’s if they didn’t dope their horses, accuse other of doping their horses, or if Sharbatly could be a little more careful.
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;6479928]
A sub discussion to this thread – and one that has been going on for a long time over on the Sport Horse Breeding forum – is the lack of North American bred horses who reach upper levels.
Unlike the Saudis, etc, who have no history of equestrian Olympic competition, we DO have the history and capability to breed talented horses. But even the horses which were purchased as young horses and trained by Americans, are mostly European breds. They are not “homebreds”, of which we should be justifiably proud.
McLain Ward is an example of this. He goes to Europe and finds talented youngsters and imports them. Many are sold and go on to become good jumpers. The best ones he sells to his clients so he keeps the ride on them; he always has horses coming up the pipeline. But they are not US Breds. Even if they are bought as 5 - 7 year olds, we are still buying our way into talented horses.
Yes, Americans (and Canadians) breed good horses, but there is a disconnect between breeding and showing. The Maddens are trying to “bridge the gap” and identify such talented horses. Kudo’s to them.
I am well aware of the Chapots and the likes of Miss Budweiser and Riviera Wonder and Jacks or Better and Nautical and Second Balcony and, and, and.
But that was a different world. As part owner of Touch of Class and the owner of Isabella, her daughter, I know that TB’s were our bread and butter. We existed on OTTB’s when Europe was breeding jumpers. When the style of courses and the demands made on upper level jumpers favored the WB, rather than start to breed our own, we just went abroad and bought other country’s product.
I know that the OP did not mean to target the US when she started this thread, but it is a case of “pot, meet kettle” to say that other countries have bought their way into International success.
Now Saudi Arabia is leading in the team competition without a single jumping fault. US riders who are also riding European horses, are standing tied for 7th. They also had a rider medal at WEG, so they didn’t appear from no where at these Olympics.
Judging from current results, who has the better program?[/QUOTE]
It’s apples and oranges, though.
The Saudis have got a small pool of insanely wealthy riders, fully dedicated to succeeding at this level of the sport. They have access to the very best horses that money can buy, the finest training resources in Europe, and are neither concerned with making a living nor with running commercial stables in their home country.
In comparison our horse industry is many orders of magnitude larger, with basically every (man or woman) for themselves, left to their own devices to make a living and distinguish themselves from their peers in order to stand out. Never mind getting access to the good horses (you know how dicey that can be, even when the horse is right in the barn) and keeping them!
Remember not too long ago it seemed like the good British horses had all been sold!
One of the KSA horses is Davos, the one that Candice King had, as far as I can tell…
Then, getting exposure to the top competition, and staying there!
Plus, there is the luck factor too. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be a “sport.”
[QUOTE=M. O’Connor;6481867]
It’s apples and oranges, though.
The Saudis have got a small pool of insanely wealthy riders, fully dedicated to succeeding at this level of the sport. They have access to the very best horses that money can buy, the finest training resources in Europe, and are neither concerned with making a living nor with running commercial stables in their home country.
In comparison our horse industry is quite a bit bigger, in which it’s basically every (man or woman) for themselves, left to their own devices to distinguish themselves from their peers to stand on their achievements above the rest, even when lucky enough to have found “the” horse.[/QUOTE]
^ That’s a great comparison!
You could be talking about many riders here, including Reed Kessler. And who among the riders today has a day job? They might have to make a living, but they are working as competitive riders and trainers, or buying and selling horses.
The only difference to me is that you will never see a woman on their team.
[QUOTE=TheHorseProblem;6481911]
You could be talking about many riders here, including Reed Kessler. And who among the riders today has a day job? They might have to make a living, but they are working as competitive riders and trainers, or buying and selling horses.
The only difference to me is that you will never see a woman on their team.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think she was talking about having a day job, but having to make a living as a rider or trainer. In the US, even Beezie Madden and McLain Ward have to make money one way or another (and eventually Reed will). The Saudi’s don’t.
[QUOTE=jlphilli;6481917]
I don’t think she was talking about having a day job, but having to make a living as a rider or trainer. In the US, even Beezie Madden and McLain Ward have to make money one way or another (and eventually Reed will). The Saudi’s don’t.[/QUOTE]
I heard the BBC guy say that one of them was an investment banker. Hard work!
ABSOLUTELY!!! And, had the two NOT been allowed to compete, their only other qualified (she rides in Europe) rider WOULD HAVE BEEN A WOMAN!!! It would have been against Saudi law for her to compete. Not good, IMHO!! 
I do agree that nobody rides at that level without a lot of talent, possibly even alot but there is a finite amount of talented horses in the world and unless you are so fortunate as to have bred or bought along one that peaks at exactly the right moment (like Ben Maher and Tripple X or Rich and Flexible) it can leave you looking to purchase that mount. In that sense, money goes a lot further. Very fortunate (and well deserving) receipients of that are Eric and Derly and Scott Brash with Aldaniti’s owners buying a world class horse and giving it to him to ride.
But that’s just life, and in the sport of “whose got s lot of money to spend” there’s no disputing the USA has more than its fair share. You just don’t get far without the pilots.
The reality is, it takes some combination of 1.)talent, 2.)money 3.)good horses to make it to the Olympics. The more you have of any/all of the above combinations the better your chances, but it usually takes at least 2 of those items, and anyone fortunate enough to have a lot of all 3 will most likely come home with a medal.
Talent can bring out the best in a good horse, but it still takes money to campaign it. And all the talent in the world won’t get a less than talented horse through a dressage test or over a course of jumps successfully enough to compete in the Olympics. Money can buy the best horseflesh in the world, but you still need someone with enough talent to give the right cues and make the right technical decisions on the course.
So I think everyone is entitled to take the route that makes the most of whatever money, talent, or horseflesh they have available to them. Its really nobody’s business to judge how or why someone tries to get there as long as they’re not mistreating their horses along the way.
And in the end there are no guarantees, because we’ll always still be dependent on how the horse is feeling on any given day.
This.
