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Calming supplements for dogs

The Menagerie
#21

I tried this for my dog:

Petspec Calmer
http://www.millbryhill.co.uk/pet-products-529/for-the-dog-535/dog-food-537/dog-supplements-554/professional-focused-calmer-supplement-22413.htm

It didn’t work- just a heads-up so you can scratch it off your list.

My dog is like yours and you have my full sympathy. I too work full time. She’s a bundle of nervous energy- everything, all the time is FULL ON. Excited- leaps and barks- food, walks both get the same. Scared- fluffs out like a bog brush and runs to hid under the cars in the garage. Aggressive at other dogs- lunges yells and snarls- you can’t get through to her.

I’m at the point of seeing the vet and asking about drug remedies. Last time he saw her she swung like a bipolar person between throwing herself on his feet for hugs and growling and barking at him like a demon. He says dogs like this often get put down. I’ll take drugs, even at the expense of shortening her life, to help her see things more rationally.

#22

[QUOTE=spacytracy;5768850]
Sure! She’s a 1.5 year old Pit Bull/WireFox terrier mix, very high energy outside the house, very good inside (for the most part). She is exercised twice a day, on nice days. Like an hour of hard playing in the am, and then another romp at night, and usually some training here and there.
Seperation anxiety, she has to be crated because she will DESTROY the house otherwise - I mean destroy.

She’s been better in recent months and I know much of this is due to age-related puppydome, but I’d like to get her energy down a little to the point that she can focus and listen.

She looks at me when I ask her to on walks but it seems to get her really ramped up more. All she wants to do is play play play with other dogs.[/QUOTE]

She doesn’t sound as if she needs calming drugs so much as just more interaction, consider Doggy Daycare 3 days a week (try MWF or M-W), Doggy Hikes, petsitter that takes her out to play with other dogs for 1-2 hours a day, etc - basically you are asking a very sociable dog to live in isolation for most of her life & it’s not working for any of you.

More training/thinking games - work with her for 10-20 min each morning, then 20 - 30 min at least once each evening (thinking can be harder work than any kind of physical play BUT you do need to get the zoomies out as well): always have a class that you’re doing with her (for me that’s easier than thinking on my own & motivates me to stay on a strict schedule).

Don’t assume that she will grow to be less energetic with age, some dogs are just as high energy at 10 as they were at 2.

If she really is part pitbull you need to be cognisant of dog aggression tendencies that may be hardwired into the breed so time with other dogs should be supervised (she does sound like she is fine but some change with maturity, eg 2-3 yrs old).
Some dogs are happy with non-doggy companions at home so a cat that is good with dogs might also help with her SA.

The sad fact is, she needs to fit into our parameters of life or else she can’t stay. That’s harsh but true - I can’t squeeze more exercise into this.

Good on you for being realistic about this - responsible re-homing is NOT an awful thing to do but if you decide to get another dog, adopt an adult through a rescue (that has thoroughly assessed the dog so you know what dog you’re getting) or go to a breeder that knows how to match puppies & new homes.

WireFox terrier

not a breed I’d recommend based on what you list for your available time/commitment.

#23

Actually, Yes, I would. I have a friend of mine who is seriously bipolar and she reports she needs far less meds when she works her body rather than sit on the sofa and stew. The benefits of exercise are scientifically so proven this is not even debatable.

Second of all, dogs are not people…so you really don’t know if the dog is experiencing “anxiety” or simply young and not socialized properly.

Geeze, this is like drugging a hyperactive toddler. In fact, I remember years ago babysitting for a good friend of mine. She told me her 3yr old NEVER took a nap…was too hyper. I walked that kid down to the playground and back and she napped just fine. :lol: She just needed to be tired.

I realize these days the first thing we all want to do is reach for the easy fix (drugs), but I’ve had high-energy, “difficult” breeds all my life (again, some 40+ yrs of dog ownership) – JRTs, Pit Bulls, Bull Terriers, Rotties, heelers, GSDs – and all have been successfully socialized using training and exercise.

And BIG KUDOS to the owner for being realistic, because it is possible this puppy will simply not fit into her lifestyle. If indeed the pup is actually Terrier/Pit you have a very high energy dog and (likely) a more “hard” sort of disposition…not really a dog for laid back household. So re-homing the pup is not a bad solution at all…btw re-homing does not mean dumping them in the shelter, it means finding them another home.

I’m assuming the OP does not have a fenced back yard where the dog can be instead of in the house? Also for both breeds, chewing is a way to blow off steam, so big beef bones, rawhides, etc. can help blow off some energy.

If you look at this logically, 2 hrs. of controlled exercise per day (on leash? Off leash?) and then 8+ hrs of being crated, + 8hrs sitting around the house while your humans sleep…that isn’t nearly enough for a young, high-energy dog.

Perhaps if the OP could “ramp up” the exercise by running with the dog or running her beside a bike, etc. the hour would count for more? Swimming is also great exercise if there is a lake or river nearby. Not knowing the OP’s living situation can’t offer more, although it sounds like maybe they live in town or even in an apt. which makes it really tough.

I agree with the doggie day care, if the person in charge is an experienced dog handler.

#24

I have a 4 yr old lab/pit mix who has had general anxiety since the day we adopted her. She is very attached to my husband (but will choose me if he’s not home, ha ha) and will follow him around the house constantly, whining the whole time. If he sits on the couch and she can’t get up there with him, she whines. If he does let her on the couch, she’ll drape herself on him until he tells her to get off, at which point she paces the living room and whines.

Things we have tried in the last 3 years:

In-home training/behavior modification
More toys/different toys (no interest)
More exercise (no noticeable difference)
More interaction (she does not play fetch, tug of war, nothing–only wants to be petted)
Thundershirt
Calming supplement

We do have a second dog–a very good-natured and playful Boston Terrier. When they were younger, they’d wrestle/play quite a bit, but they’ve calmed down as they’ve aged.

Finally, two months ago, we asked the vet about medications, and she put the dog on a low dose of Prozac. It’s taken almost 8 weeks to see a difference, but we are thrilled with the effect. She is still the same dog–still begs for attention, still wants to be attached to my husband 24/7–but when she CAN’T be on the couch/on his lap/whatever, she is content to go and lay down on her own. No more pacing, no more turning up the TV because she won’t stop whining.

She is a happier dog and WE are happier because of it. The constant whining used to grate on my nerves and I used to get really irritated with her…and then feel guilty about my aggravation. Things are totally different now and I’m so pleased to have TWO content dogs.

I’m not saying medication is a magic cure–but after 3 years and trying most of the traditional fixes, we found something that worked for us and for her.

#25

The problem? I feel terrible because this dog was adopted, and my contract states I have to return her to the rescue, which is OVERFILLED with dogs.

And obviously, I adore her - she’s been here a year, and we’ve grown very attached.

No, she does not have a fenced yard. I have thought about getting an outdoor kennel, so she at least has room to roam around - still a possibility. I just dont’ want her turning in to a barking maniac.

#26

I did not say not to exercise, the OP is already doing that as much as she can. This would be in conjunction with what she is already doing.

Second of all, dogs are not people…so you really don’t know if the dog is experiencing “anxiety” or simply young and not socialized properly.

I am not there, so I am going off what the OP wrote, but general arousal and anxiety due to the arousal is incredibly common in dogs. It could be all four as well, anxiety/arousal/age/socialization. None are exclusive of the others. That said, have you ever read any research by Dr. Karen Overall or Jean Donaldson or other people who deal with this type of thing? Nearly all of them have written that a behavior modification plan will be enhanced and the training will go faster, stick better with anti-anxiety meds in place. It does not mean that they have to be forever, and it does not mean doping/drugging your dog to a zombie like state. Dogs are not people, and although some might be mitigated by exercise alone, even moderately severe cases will be helped by meds.

Geeze, this is like drugging a hyperactive toddler. In fact, I remember years ago babysitting for a good friend of mine. She told me her 3yr old NEVER took a nap…was too hyper. I walked that kid down to the playground and back and she napped just fine. :lol: She just needed to be tired.

it is not the same at all. Adrenalin dumped by over arousal is not dissipated by exercise. It will stay in the dogs system long after the event happened.

I realize these days the first thing we all want to do is reach for the easy fix (drugs), but I’ve had high-energy, “difficult” breeds all my life (again, some 40+ yrs of dog ownership) – JRTs, Pit Bulls, Bull Terriers, Rotties, heelers, GSDs – and all have been successfully socialized using training and exercise.

just to be clear, there is no easy fix for the kinds of issues the OP has presented. Medications alone will not make this dog into one who is easier to live with. Behavior modification alone will likely take too long and may be too much work without medical intervention as well. If socialization is all that is required, then great. I don’t think that will keep this dog in her home.

#27

if the dog is not a good fit, she isn’t. It’s easy to beat yourself up, but please try not to. In addition, if the rescue is overfilled, is there a counselor you can speak to and see if they can find a new home without returning her? Perhaps if you know there is a light at the end of the tunnel, it will be easier to keep her till another home is found.

And obviously, I adore her - she’s been here a year, and we’ve grown very attached.

No, she does not have a fenced yard. I have thought about getting an outdoor kennel, so she at least has room to roam around - still a possibility. I just dont’ want her turning in to a barking maniac.

I am sure you are tremendously attached and want desperately to do something to help her. If you did not, she would already be back at the rescue/shelter. My guess, and this [I]is[I] just a guess, is that an outdoor kennel will not help reduce any anxiety she is feeling. It might work, but there are other things I’d try first.

if you live in a multiple story house, with carpeting on the steps, you might toss a non-bouncing toy to the top and let her run up and down the stairs to burn off energy. The downside here is that as she becomes more fit, it will take more to tire her out and it could become a vicious circle.

Do nosework with her and teach her to find your keys, your socks, your gloves etc.

teach her service dog tasks, pulling a laundry basket, getting towels out of the dryer, have your SO sit at the top of the stairs, you at the bottom and have her bring a plastic bag up and down the stairs.

do push ups. sit/down/sit/down/sit.

#28

We can only do what we can do, but that doesn’t mean it’s enough for the dog.

The fact is, this dog doesn’t sound like she’s “anxious” at all. She just sounds like a WAY over active puppy who doesn’t get out enough.

Really, nothing particularly mysterious about it. She is at the adolescent stage of doggy development and that can often be the toughest (just like for people).

I am NOT knocking the OP, because, as I said, you can only do what you can do, but 2-3 hrs a day TOTAL of attention and exercise is likely simply not enough. The dog just needs more…either attention (in the form of focused training, task-driven exercise, etc), exercise or both.

Especially if the dog is crated some 8 hrs a day in addition! (and to the OP, sorry if I am misunderstanding, but this is the gist I got from your post). She’s barely getting any mental or physical stimulation at all.

No wonder she gets over-excited. Sorry, but I see nothing “pathological” about her behavior at all…

#29

[QUOTE=spacytracy;5772489]
The problem? I feel terrible because this dog was adopted, and my contract states I have to return her to the rescue, which is OVERFILLED with dogs.

And obviously, I adore her - she’s been here a year, and we’ve grown very attached.

No, she does not have a fenced yard. I have thought about getting an outdoor kennel, so she at least has room to roam around - still a possibility. I just dont’ want her turning in to a barking maniac.[/QUOTE]

Call the rescue - state that you will keep her until they can find her another home, that way she doesn’t take a space from a possible incoming dog & you know that she won’t end up back in a series of foster homes; most likely they will try to work with you towards a solution wherein you manage her energy etc (start doing this even if you’re certain that you need to find her a more suitable home).

Do NOT get her an outside kennel - most dogs are lousy at self-exercise, they are sociable pack animals & will usually only self-exercise when a game etc is involved. She will undoubtedly use this opportunity to bark her way through her long boring day or dig her way to fun & adventure etc.

Based on what you’ve mentioned of your schedule, I’m surprised that the rescue placed a high energy pup with you in the first place (the rescue I volunteered with would not place a pup in a situation where it would be home alone for more than a few hours - especially a high energy terrier mix).

Are there any local doggy daycares etc? do look into them, she may only need to go a couple days a week to keep her energy in check & since she craves doggy interaction, she’ll likely thrive in the pack environment.

Is there a local agility group - backyards are great places to set up weave poles etc; she’ll burn energy & have to think at the same time.

#30

See THIS is pathological behavior – an abnormal level of anxiety where drugs can be useful.

But I don’t see this as the same thing as the OP’s case. She said the pup just wanted to “play, play, play!” And chews up the house when she leaves.

What is “abnormal” about any of this in a 18 month terrier/pit puppy who is obviously not getting enough exercise? I would have to say “Nothing…”

#31

The “dog excitement” part sounds like it mostly needs training. I think it would take a lot of drugs to overcome the rush of seeing another dog.

If the issue is that the dog is too active and therefore destructive, I agree that exercise would help greatly. Do you have a treadmill? Most dogs learn to use them pretty quickly and it is a way to ensure that she gets some good exercise. With the destruction - I would continue to crate for a while and when she is doing well, use an exercise pen in the house with her crate to give her a little more room without acess to stuff she can detsroy (though my dogs managed to eat a hole in the rug…)

Drugs may help in the short term for your survival, but it is not a long-term solution. With my SA dog Clomicalm and Rescue Remedy didnt work, Ace had some effect and xanax made both of us happiest. He was only on it for a short time to break his cycle of anxiety until I found the right management tools to help him. One of those tools was always keeping him confined when alone in the house. It felt weird not to let a grown dog loose in the house when alone, but that is what made him more comfortable.

Unfortunately, there is no magic answer here. And it may be that you are not the right home for this dog. It was a great suggestion to “foster” until a home is found if you can. Please make sure if you do get another dog that it is a couch potato-type!

PS. Also remember most dogs slow down after around 2 or 3 years old. Most…

#32

We recently finished a “focus” class, mainly for (aggressive) reactive dogs - she was the only “happy” reactive dog. But regardless, both require the same training.

We taught her (and me!) how to deal with her over excitement, such as teaching her “look” (at me) click-treat. Or other things like teaching her an arsenal of tricks so when she is distracted we can do tricks to get her focus on me.

The problem IMO is that sometimes her excitement takes over, and it really doesn’t make any difference WHAT I do, I can’t get her back unless I remove her from the situation.

#33

Years ago, I had a friend with an extremely high-energy, nervous dog. The dog received at least 4 hours of exercise daily, but just couldn’t contain himself. Her vet told her to use Calms Forte for him. It’s a small bottle of pills. You can buy it at just about any drugstore, or in the organic/holistic section of the local grocery store.

#34

She’s young, IMHO under exercised/socialized and she ain’t no Golden Retriever.

Both Pits & terriers in general are independent thinkers – they were both bred to ACT independently of humans. They weren’t bred to work WITH people like herding or working dogs. In addition, terriers especially tend to be very “busy” dogs…you need to engage their minds and their bodies ALOT.

So IME it takes longer to form that bond with these breeds and you need to be a stronger leader. They don’t just become instantly devoted to you like many of the working breeds. You need to earn their obedience and respect.

I really don’t think she is the right dog for your household unless you are willing to devote much more time to her, so I think alot depends on just how much time you ARE willing to give.

If the 2 hrs a day you give her now is the max you can spare, I really do recommend you rehome her. To give you an example, when my JRT was her age, she was getting walked OFF LEASH through a large wooded park near my home about 3-4 hrs per day total. I walked about 2 miles, she ran about 6 miles dashing back and forth after squirrels, etc.

And someone was home with her almost 20 hrs per day. Oh, and we had a fenced yard as well, so she could go out and play with the older dog. She was ALWAYS raring to go!!

So think long and hard exactly how much you want to commit. There isn’t a right or wrong answer – it’s a matter of fit.

However, if you want to try other things, perhaps a pro trainer could help.

Again, do YOU do any sort of exercise that you can incorporate into the pooch’s day? Like running, biking, riding, swimming, etc.?

Where do you live? Suburb, city, country? Apt? Duplex? House?

Generally speaking, high energy dogs need to go with high energy people, so you really need to be honest about this or otherwise everyone is going to be unhappy.

And by all means talk to your vet about drugs…but do you really want a dog that has to be drugged their whole life to be a companion?

This truly isn’t fair to the dog, is it?

#35

I have a weimaraner and they are known for their energy and separation anxiety. We shop at a rather high end place (as far as food goes) to get her a healthy food with no fillers. The thing they stressed the most to keep energy levels in check was get a HIGH protein food. We had her on a 27% protein and switched her to a 31% and I can tell a difference even with just that little bit. You can get even higher but our wallet didn’t like those foods. Her SA isn’t quite as bad but she does still have it. The other thing is to make sure they get out and move some. For my dog, a trip to the barn in the mornings is enough when it is hot. Sometimes I have to let her out for extra in the afternoon.

#36

[QUOTE=spacytracy;5773515]
We recently finished a “focus” class, mainly for (aggressive) reactive dogs - she was the only “happy” reactive dog. But regardless, both require the same training.

We taught her (and me!) how to deal with her over excitement, such as teaching her “look” (at me) click-treat. Or other things like teaching her an arsenal of tricks so when she is distracted we can do tricks to get her focus on me.

The problem IMO is that sometimes her excitement takes over, and it really doesn’t make any difference WHAT I do, I can’t get her back unless I remove her from the situation.[/QUOTE]

was she eventually able to give you even minimal focus in class?

have you worked at all on learning to be quiet instead of doing something all the time?

I believe you stated at one point that you used a head halter on her, how did that work?

#37

I still use the Halti. I have also used the harness type with the martingale in front (name escapes me) but the Halti works far better.

Yes, she is able to give me some focus. However, its fleeting. My best strategy is turning her away, getting some distance, and not letting her have direct line of sight with the other dog.

People are not as difficult, unless they start talking to her. As soon as they do, she goes into “friend” mode and she is very rambunctious.

I did order a supplement, I truly do not think using a supplement on her is a bad thing or that she’s “drugged” all the time. I have my horse on supplements, I take supplements. I’m not a zombie and I don’t expect her to be. No do I think people who take prozac or any other drugs like it are either.

All of this reading has definitely helped and I am trying to find ways to incorporate more mental and physical exercise into our day.

This morning I took her to Petco to see how she would be, and she was a superstar. They had an adoption day and she had to walk past a large Great Dane at the entrance and she whined and wanted to go over but we walked right past and kept going.

We walked around the store a bit and she remained loose on the lead, and we went to the toy dept so I could replace her beloved Kong ball (it succombed to an ocean wave when we went to OBX). I also got her a second ball for inside the house, a Kong squeeker one that I’m sure will last about 5 seconds.

The rescue group was walking the dogs around the store and she met the Dane and also a little Pit who has the same personality, wants to just play really hard all the time. She was very healthily interacting with them.

She also passed at least a dozen people, and didn’t really bat an eye (I mean, who would, with all the good smells in there), sat in line properly and was very very good.

We went to the drugstore drive-thru, she got a biscuit from the pharmacist. We went thru the Wendy’s drive-thru, and she got a chicken nugget from the cashier.

She got LOTS of praise in the car and I think it was a good experience. She is currently sitting on her “place” (her bed) going nuts over this squeeker thing.

So…we’ll see how it goes! I’m going to try to schedule some play dates and see if I can get her to the dog park once in awhile too.

#38

Here is the nutball in question:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/spacytracy05/zoe1.jpg

This is her with her new ball today:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/spacytracy05/IMG-20110814-00343.jpg

#39

Prozac is an anti-depressant; your dog is definitely not depressed.:wink: Nor does she sound anxious. She is just young and energetic.

Surely you and your horse and your dog are not all on “calming” medications?

I consider a supplement something to supplement the diet – like biotin or a vitamin. Prozac or Ativan are not considered “supplements” – they are drugs.

And yes, by all means see if you can get her to the doggie park “once in a while…”

If you took her 3-4 x a week chances are you wouldn’t have an issue in the first place…

#40

I’m sure you understand it is normal for the attention to you to be fleeting in the beginning, right?

I truly do not think using a supplement on her is a bad thing or that she’s “drugged” all the time.

Once you get it and try it, I’d love to know how it works.

whined and wanted to go over but we walked right past and kept going.

excellent! Good for you and good for her!

The rescue group was walking the dogs around the store and she met the Dane and also a little Pit who has the same personality, wants to just play really hard all the time. She was very healthily interacting with them.

think they might let you have a play date? I think that would be safer than a dog park.

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