Calming supplements??? Yes or no?

[blackwly]

Just to clarify, I was not advocating working the horse 7 days a week until he has an injury! Just saying to consider having someone sit on him 6-7 days a week (one or two of those days could be a 30 min walking hack.) Just something to keep his mind engaged.

Honestly, I agree with the other posters that turnout is probably the main issue. I’ve had many TB’s for many years and when living in CA for 4 years found this to be a tremendous challenge. It isn’t just the running around that they need - it is the mental break from staring at the stall walls. Some horses can handle minimal turnout and some just can’t.

Since you have a history of a soft tissue injury here, I think it is actually that much more important. In my anecdotal experience, event horses kept inside most of the time seemed to have a much higher rate of soft tissue injury/reinjury. That history would make me really try to create a program that emphasizes lots of long, slow distance work in a very consistent way and I would do away with some longing in favor of hacking over good terrain.

As for the hay, there is a great resource here: http://www.uky.edu/Ag/AnimalSciences/pubs/id146.pdf

Bermuda protein content actually depends a lot on the timing of the cut. FWIW I have always tried to use mainly fescue for my “hotter” ones (which is most of mine as I like them that way )

[Appsolute]

OP - Are you in CA like I am? I know turn out and space can be real issues.

Back when I had my horse at a training barn - and in a stall except for the 3 days a week he got a few hours outside - he was ridden 9 times a week. Yes, NINE.

Three days a week he would be ridden twice (no turn out days). One ride would be a nice hack at the walk (OUT of the arena), while the other ride would be more intense.

Three lessons or training rides a week, 4-5 hacks a week, at least one conditioning ride a week (interval sets out in the hills). He was ridden 6 days a week, day off included a hand walk (and usually overlapped with a turn out day).

Do you have access to trails? I have worked at some of the big facilities in CA (as a working student) and have found it is pretty hard to keep a horse “happy” if they are stalled constantly, and only get out of training rides. Trail rides, a good old’ “mosey” at the walk, several times a week can make up for a lack of turnout.

Even though they don’t always run and buck etc, turn out is important for a change in scenery, and remember, horses evolved to walk just about all day long. The more you can get them moving, and out of their stall, the better it will be for their mental and physical health.

[candysgirl]

It depends on the horse. A friend of mine used SmartCalm with her Arab for a while. She used it when she first got him. He had some wacky training before she got him. He wanted to be a good boy, but was so fried that he sometimes just would have meltdowns which would just spiral downhill because he’d panic about panicking.

For him, the SmartCalm was just enough to take the edge off without having any sedative effects on him. I think she used it for about the first year she had him until good training could take hold and he learned to have more normal reactions to things. These days he’s not particularly spooky and doesn’t spend life just afraid of everything.

[quietann]

I definitely noticed a difference when I took my mare off of SmartCalm last fall (she had been on it since a few months after I bought her, but has calmed down a lot in the last few years.) She was more “up” and definitely more distracted. I got used to it, and to be honest she was more fun to ride. However… as this horrid winter has progressed, and I haven’t been working her as much (yet she stays fit; it’s one of her superpowers), the level of “No!” and “look over there, over there, hey over there!!!” has gotten bad enough that she’s going back on it until the spring.

SmartCalm Ultra puts her to sleep. And Quiessence makes her nuts, for some unknown reason. So if you try a calming supplement, it may take a few tries to find the right one.

OP: I grew up in Southern California, before land became quite so scarce, and even back then (30-40 years ago) getting enough turnout was an issue. I hope you can find a way to keep both you and your horse happy and safe.

[yellowbritches]

I do believe the root of the problem here is lack of turn out, and that calming sup isn’t going to help much. The horse isn’t that young (especially if he’s an OTTB. He’s seen a lot of life if that’s the case). If he had the turnout he’s probably be a different horse.

I realize turnout in some areas is tough. I would consider implementing Appsolute’s suggestions and see if that helps.

[Plain_Bay_2]

I have a 7 year old Dutch Warmblood that has trouble focusing. He has 24/7 turn out and is fed a whole food diet with no concentrates. I have had sucess with Equine Matrix ECP. It is organic and totally legal for shows, etc. It has not changed his personality or energy level, but definately allows him to focus more while ridden. Not cheap, but worth it. Good luck with your horse!!

[Lady_Eboshi]

Nostrums are not a substitute for adequate management. Turn 'im OUT!

[Cruiser12]

[QUOTE=Kwatson;7409300]
I have a 7 y.o. Ottb who is amazing and has lots of potential. He’s ridden 4 times a week in lessons and by my trainer. He also gets lunged on top of that. He’s on Bermuda cause alfalfa makes him too excited and also strategy gx and bran to keep his wait up. I will also be starting him on vita flex health and wellness formula once it arrives. It has b vitamins and l-tryptophan in it though and I’m hoping that helps to calm him down. I’ve owned him for a little over two years and and had him in training 9 months.he’s still very excitable. I’m curious to know peoples thoughts on calming supplements? Particularly one called vision by vita flex and only feeding it to him before rides. But I am skeptical just cause I don’t want to be one of those people who use silly unnecessary tools when it’s just a training issue. Idk which is why I’m seeking advice although I’m going to try the new supplement first to see of it helps. I would just like him to be more focused on me when he rides to get the most out of his training, I’d also like to take him eventing but keep having to push it back cause he’s still too flighty.[/QUOTE]

I haven’t read many of these posts, but if he is on anything containing MSM, take him off of it. It can really cause some horses a lot of stress

[ake987]

[QUOTE=Cruiser12;7436952]
I haven’t read many of these posts, but if he is on anything containing MSM, take him off of it. It can really cause some horses a lot of stress[/QUOTE]

Really? Would you be kind enough to link to some peer reviewed literature about this? Very interested, as MSM is one of the ONLY things I supplement with. Thanks!

[Abbie.S]

[QUOTE=Cruiser12;7436952]
I haven’t read many of these posts, but if he is on anything containing MSM, take him off of it. It can really cause some horses a lot of stress[/QUOTE]

Perhaps you SHOULD read the posts before yelling fire, especially when you aren’t providing evidence to back up your claims.

Are you sure you aren’t confusing MSM with DMSO, the two of which are very closely related on the molecular level? There are documented drawbacks to DMSO, but they aren’t generally any more serious than foul breath or itchy skin. I have never heard of any cases where MSM proved harmful. But again, happy to read documentation.

[Cruiser12]

[QUOTE=Abbie.S;7437110]
Perhaps you SHOULD read the posts before yelling fire, especially when you aren’t providing evidence to back up your claims.

Are you sure you aren’t confusing MSM with DMSO, the two of which are very closely related on the molecular level? There are documented drawbacks to DMSO, but they aren’t generally any more serious than foul breath or itchy skin. I have never heard of any cases where MSM proved harmful. But again, happy to read documentation.[/QUOTE]

I’m not confused, you can search it on here or you can Google it. Or I could tell you my story, but I’ll share it with the OP instead

[Cruiser12]

[QUOTE=ake987;7437083]
Really? Would you be kind enough to link to some peer reviewed literature about this? Very interested, as MSM is one of the ONLY things I supplement with. Thanks![/QUOTE]

This is the link to the thread that I started quite a while ago when my OTTB was on it and I finally put two and two together.
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?370213-Can-oil-or-MSM-make-a-horse-hot-HELP

You can Google something like, “can MSM make a horse hot, or spooky”,you’ll find more accounts of it. It doesn’t happen all the time, just to some horses, and this might not be what is causing issues with your horse, but it’s worth taking him off of it for a couple of weeks to see if things improve. It took about a week or so for my guy to be normal again. Good luck

[fooler]

My spicy TB mare does not tolerate MSM well. The main symptom for her is gastric upset. You can hear the gurgles and burbles from her gut just standing next to her and eventually she stops eating.

Until Cruisers’s thread my mare was the only horse I knew to react to MSM. This reaction is not only to straight MSM, but also MSM in combination with other products.

Another thing about my mare, I needed to do something with her 6-7 days a week. We often went for a 30 minute walking/trotting hack 2-3 times a week. Also when lunging, it was a mental exercise. 10-15 minutes in both directions as a reminder to W, T, C, increase-decrease circle and halt. She was naturally fit enough, I don’t remember her ever getting tired, so we worked her brain. Whether on the lunge or under saddle it was changes of direction, W/T/C, halt and changes within each gait.

The bright ones will keep you on your toes.

[asterix]

I think my perch tb cross would lose his mind without proper turnout. He is so active, mentally and physically - I am lucky to live somewhere where it is easy to find good pasture. I know you say it’s not an option, but any increase you can swing might help.