Camera in horse stall? (boarding barn)

[Simkie]

I have cameras in my barn and bring them online when I have a horse with a critical veterinary issue. They’re handy for that. It’s my barn, there are no boarders, and the only people in it are me and my husband.

Not only can I not imagine asking a boarding barn to allow a camera, but reviewing footage is a PITA. The cheap & easy cameras on the market, like Arlo or Eufy, work on motion. That is, they begin recording when they sense motion. A horse in a stall overnight produces hundreds of clips, ranging from maybe 20 seconds to 2 minutes. It’s real effort to go through it all. Which is fine, when you’ve got an ill horse, but just for a general “I wonder what my horse is up to”? Nope.

There are continuous recording plans–my experience is with Arlo–but they are significantly more costly than the regular plan, and the portal to view that footage is just seriously lacking. There’s no way to speed through the footage, you’ve got to pick a point in time to watch.

These cameras also have to run off some sort of connectivity. Does the barn have wifi? Will they let you use it? If not, you pay for the camera to run on the cell networks–which only works if there’s solid data coverage in the barn.

If you do get this far, power is the next issue. IME, battery powered cameras last a day or less depending on how much time the horse is in the stall. Plugging in is really the answer, especially if you’re not even at the barn daily. Is there an outlet at the stall? Will the barn let you use it?

All that is to say: we live in a world with cheap and easy cameras options, but 24/7 monitoring is mostly not what these cameras are made to do, and that makes them not ideal for this use. You can do it, but it’s a workout to review the footage, and that long battery life they tout doesn’t apply. Connectivity is often challenging in barns, which often don’t have WiFi coverage, and are frequently in areas with poor cell network coverage.

Expecting barn owners and staff to work around a camera is a tough ask, and saying absolutely not is a reasonable response. Following that up with “perhaps you’ll be more comfortable at another facility…one that already offers video monitoring…” would not be a surprise.

[OverandOnward]

@Simkie

I have cameras in my barn and bring them online when I have a horse with a critical veterinary issue. They’re handy for that. It’s my barn, there are no boarders, and the only people in it are me and my husband.
…
A horse in a stall overnight produces hundreds of clips, ranging from maybe 20 seconds to 2 minutes. It’s real effort to go through it all. Which is fine, when you’ve got an ill horse, but just for a general “I wonder what my horse is up to”? Nope.
…
but 24/7 monitoring is mostly not what these cameras are made to do, and that makes them not ideal for this use.

So why is it ok for you to have cameras in your barn to watch your horses, but boarders can’t do the same? They are horse owners just like you.

They can watch or not watch the history, just like you – that’s their decision. (You can speed-watch the history of many cams, seeing a range of clips in just a minute or so. I do this daily for my home camera, especially the overnight clips.)

Not true that 24/7 monitoring is not what the cameras are made for – yes it is, that is exactly how they are intended to be used! What else are the cameras doing? LOL They free people up so they don’t have to stay in view of something they want to observe.

That is how I have used cameras in my own home with a mentally and physically disabled person. I can go about my tasks while they are free to do their thing in other parts of the house. The person is not restricted to stay in my sight, which is a pain for everyone. I know if this person is ok or not, and also how they spend their time - real time and in review. That’s the whole point of the cameras.

When professional caregivers are in my home are also aware of the cameras, I make sure of it. The cameras aren’t obtrusive but they aren’t hidden. Visitors can see them.

I’ve never had anyone have an objection on general principals, everyone just ignores and forgets them. They have no impact on those people. They are just to help me be better aware of someone who can’t communicate their needs very well.

[Simkie]

@OverandOnward

So why is it ok for you to have cameras in your barn to watch your horses, but boarders can’t do the same? They are horse owners just like you.

Because it is MY OWN BARN. I make the rules. There is zero risk of privacy violation because the only privacy at play is MY OWN and I have consented to cameras.

Asking to place a camera in a stall in a boarding barn is like asking to place a camera in a classroom to watch your kid. You think that’s okay, too?

[S1969]

@OverandOnward

So why is it ok for you to have cameras in your barn to watch your horses, but boarders can’t do the same? They are horse owners just like you.

Really? Then they should buy a farm and keep their horses on their own property.

Because the reality - it’s not just the horse that they want to watch. It’s the employees, the other boarders, the schedule, whether the horse gets the promised turnout, blanket changes, water bucket scrubbing, etc.

That is all about watching the barn owner/manager, and they have every right to say no.

[yaya]

Better check the laws in your state as to whether video (and especially audio) recording requires the consent of those it is recording. Many places are at least one-party consent, meaning at least one party being recorded has to specifically give permission to be recorded.

[OverandOnward]

There are some very dated ideas in this thread about the significance of cameras and how people use them.

If some people prefer to think that they are exempt from cameras, that cameras are inherently evil, that is ok, everyone can occupy their own reality. But what people are assuming is not necessarily how cameras are used in this day & age.

I suspect that the general public has no idea how often they are on someone’s camera, somewhere in their life. For those out & about at work and errands, they are on camera all day long. And they never know because it doesn’t actually impact their world.

Today in a great many parts of the world, many crimes are solved because the perpetrator was caught on camera! Even at people’s homes, outside and inside. For police departments, CCTV is far bigger part of crime-solving than DNA. Sometimes a perpetrator was caught on a neighbor’s outside camera. (E.g. Chris Watts disposing of his wife’s body and preparing to kill his children, case cracked open by the neighbor’s outside camera catching Watts’ vehicle coming & going from Watt’s driveway, contradicting Watts’ own story).

The board barn where I board has a camera in the main aisle, pointed at the main aisle. Where horses are tacked up, the door to the tack room opens, where stalls are cleaned and horses fed, turnout leaving & returning to stalls, everything happens there. I’m not sure if it has audio or not.

That camera is not a secret. It’s in full view if you look up as it is attached to an overhead beam. The BO points it out to all new students and prospective boarders. Everyone ignores/forgets about it because it never impacts them that they are aware of.

The barn staff work in the view of the camera and they know it. They don’t even think about it. No one thinks about it.

I do know of some barns that have cameras mounted to allow the BM to monitor the barn. Perhaps horse owners as well, I haven’t asked about that.

I wonder if people realize that a almost every building with public access, including common residential buildings such as apartments and condos, as well as retail stores and offices, have a LOT of cameras in them. Not a few cameras, a LOT of cameras. Even the feed store. Even the corner gas & grocery. It’s a standard part of building and business management these days.

The public and the residents may or not be aware of the cameras because the cameras never affect them personally.

I would see a stall camera in the same light. It’s just information, it isn’t a federal case. If the owner uses it properly it has the same impact as the camera in a retail store that records every customer and every employee.

I think it was unnecessary of the OP to ask the world about this, even though I get it that they were interested in the opinions of other horse people. And yes, they may encounter similar attitudes in their board barn.

But if it is done quietly and has no impact on the other boarders, hopefully OP has what she needs from it. Just don’t make it a conversational feature when at the barn because that may unnecessarily unsettle some people. Have some standard answers to pass out IF anyone has a question, then change the subject.

@Simkie

Asking to place a camera in a stall in a boarding barn is like asking to place a camera in a classroom to watch your kid. You think that’s okay, too?

It’s already there. No one asked me or the parents or anyone.

It’s ok with me.

[S1969]

@OverandOnward

The board barn where I board has a camera in the main aisle, pointed at the main aisle. Where horses are tacked up, the door to the tack room opens, where stalls are cleaned and horses fed, turnout leaving & returning to stalls, everything happens there.

Because it’s the barn owner’s camera(s). They have every right to place a camera on their property and film people coming and going and keep an eye out for situations that need attention. Just like all the other examples you gave. I monitor building cameras at my job every day - they are our cameras and they are there for the security of the employees. But if one of my employees placed a camera in our office so that they could view it - it would be inappropriate. (Just as a school has cameras to monitor safety - but not individual parents to monitor their own children.)

I think most of us understand how cameras are used in this day and age.

[Simkie]

@OverandOnward

There are some very dated ideas in this thread about the significance of cameras and how people use them.

I don’t think you have any concept of “expectation of privacy” and how that differs in public spaces vs private ones.

Or how putting a camera up in someone’s private barn–without even asking?!–is an egregious violation of privacy and a very serious risk of being asked to leave.

Just because your barn has a camera sure as shit doesn’t mean they all do, or that every barn owner wants cameras. Or even has the infrastructure to support them.

[OverandOnward]

And I think the REAL question that OP hasn’t yet answered is WHY did the other boarder suggest the camera. Unless I missed where OP answered that.

Was the other boarder trying to tell her something? Was she being sarcastic?

The rest of the discussion isn’t necessarily germaine to OP’s problem of why someone in the barn thinks she should be aware at the present time. OP asked for opinions about cameras, but IMO that seems to have missed OP’s real issue.

[endlessclimb]

And we wonder why BOs all over the place are deciding to close up. Jesus.

OP, you can ask but if it were my place it would be a HARD NO. I hope you’re not actually asking your example questions either. Holy cow.

It’s “your stall” but you’re RENTING the space. A “landlord” has the right to say no to a myriad of requests.

This is so weird.

[CharlotteGirl]

I would not ask. I would be surprised if they would allow it, and I think even asking will sour your relationship. If you don’t trust them, maybe find someone you can trust. Or are you asking because of his health ? Not sure how a camera would make any difference.

Where I board, they are talking about putting cameras in their foaling stalls. When it was discussed, BO mentioned that for insurance purposes, everyone would have to be advised about the camera. They would only be using it at night for a few days a year. I’m only mentioning this because of the insurance aspect which I found that interesting.

[LCDR]

Looking at legal precedents and opinions posted on line, it does appear that a boarder in a boarding barn may have the right to install a monitoring camera to record video only as long as it does not monitor spaces where a person would have a reasonable expectation of privacy, such as a bathroom a changing room. So if she wants to put up a camera to monitor the stalls and aisles she does not need permission or approval.

The barn owner has created a public space by taking boarders
and/or teaching lessons to members of the public. And by creating a public space the owner may also be required to meet the requirements outlined in the ADA . That is another issue that needs careful assessment for anyone deciding to open their barn to boarders.

Could an owner circumvent all this? Perhaps by making the facility a private club? I don’t know.

[fordtraktor]

This is…not accurate.

If someone installed a camera without my permission in MY barn? They would be kicked out immediately.

I am not totally against giving permission for a camera in the right circumstances, but that is a bridge too far.

[S1969]

@LCDR

The barn owner has created a public space by taking boarders

Not a lawyer but not sure that’s a public space. People are not free to wander in off the streets and buy stuff, like a grocery store. But even still - filming is one thing. We do it all the time with our phones. Placing a camera? I don’t think so - try doing this at the local grocery store and see if it’s ok.

[CharlotteGirl]

Sometimes indulging our inner worry wart is not a good thing. I think you are at risk of being asked to leave if you go down this road. People who take care of your horse are invested. Hard not to become attached to a creature under your care. Maybe try trusting them.

[S1969]

@OverandOnward

And I think the REAL question that OP hasn’t yet answered is WHY did the other boarder suggest the camera. Unless I missed where OP answered that.

Agreed. If you are wanting to place a camera for a couple of weeks to see if your horse lies down at night and/or struggles to get up afterwards - I think most barn managers would be ok with that.

If you’re interested in placing a camera to see what time the evening staff feeds hay, or whether they are really turning the horse out - those are issues that suggest you should look for a new barn. Because if you can’t trust them, it’s not going to work.

[LCDR]

The internet is often not accurate, even responses posted by attorneys. Just reporting what I found. Are you an attorney? Help us out, please.

[fordtraktor]

I am. Some barns are more public space than others, depending on a variety of factors. Some states have 2 party consent rules. We can’t really know without more detail.

But either way, it would be a mistake for someone to place a camera without permission, because even if it is legal, it is also legal for a BO to terminate the business relationship for any reason except for a few limited “protected classes,” such as racial, gender, etc. discrimination. Wanting to install a camera to watch your horse does not constitute a protected class.

[mmeqcenter]

@LCDR

The barn owner has created a public space by taking boarders
and/or teaching lessons to members of the public.

False. Businesses are not public space just because they are a business.

“Public space is commonly shared and created for open usage throughout the community, whereas private space is owned by individuals or corporations.“

Parks, streets, sidewalks, those are public spaces.

[BlueDrifter]

A game camera will do what you want. They are cheap – $100 or less – run on batteries. You can set them to just record when there is movement, and then you have a choice of whether you want a photo or video, and how frequently you want it to record movement after the first movement.

If you want video for each movement you might not last a day.

If you want to figure out if your horse is kicking and when – it works for that.

They don’t need wifi, so you have to pull the SD card to see what you captured… always after the fact.

I got one for Christmas, and they are kind of fun. But mine is pointed at my horse, not at the aisle or anyone else. The novelty quickly wears off, though, and it is really only useful to check what they might have been doing after you found them with an injury, etc.