The level of entitlement in the person making the call.
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I try to teach every lesson with my full attention, regardless of full training or haul in. I’m a pretty straight forward and blunt person and if asked the question you are asking my reply would be.
What are your goals? Where do you see yourself in 6 months, one year, five years?
If you look at my client X and you want what she is achieving you need to do what she does. Effort, time, financial, etc.
If you opt into my program 100% I can give you loose timeline based on how I know my system works for me; your skill and commitment and your horse.
If you opt out of my program I don’t know how successful it will be but I will teach you.
If you partially opt in my program I don’t know how successful it will be, but I will teach you. (Caveat unless you and/or your horse are unsafe)
I am always willing to try it the clients way, unless I deem it unsafe, And we can try and or modify as we go.
When I have felt something was unsafe I have said so and offered them what I felt comfortable with, which is usually completely in my program so I have some control. Or I wish them well with another trainer whose system may work better for their situation. No hard feelings and they are always welcome to come back at any time.
I will say I to haul in for my lessons and I want her help when I’m there; I expect nothing else once I leave except rescheduling of lessons and maybe quick bit of advise on something like a “what supplement do you think will work for X, or what bit did you say again?”
I absolutely will not tolerate mean, nasty, or rude people. But this is a life choice. I don’t care how good a rider or trainer is…life is short and I want to spend it around people I enjoy. Full stop.
Best of luck!
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The way I see it…whether H/J, Dressage, Eventing, Reining…whatever…
There are people who are at the start of their horse endeavors, and they need supervision as well as help.
As they grow in experience and skill, they can choose to show, and also they can choose to have their horse at home without needing constant help or supervision.
Some choose to advance in their showing with the help of a full time trainer and a made horse. It can work, especially with effort, $$ and good/appropriate/talented horses.
What is a little harder, seems to be having those folks who do not need supervision, but could use help progressing with their horse, in their discipline…take responsibility for their own learning.
I once heard Buck Brannaman, at a clinic, discussing that riders reach a point where they should stop with the weekly lessons from OK/decent trainers, and go find Really Good Help maybe less often. One can’t afford to go do that weeklong intensive from the Really Effective Amazing Trainer if they’re paying training board, taking lots of lessons from the OK/Decent person. And, I think as important, you can absolutely go get help but to get really good you need to try things yourself, make your own decisions, make your own mistakes.
I’m reading through this thread, noting responses from some of my favorite COTH posters, who have been the ‘Haul-In’ types for most of their horse life.
My mom hauled me in to lessons when I was little, and I hauled myself in to lessons, shows, events at 16 when I got my driver’s license and could hitch up the Miley 2-horse trailer myself.
Anyway, a trainer who is close to full with a business model of teaching folks in training board would maybe not be a first choice to do haul-ins.
And it would be well worth finding a trainer who welcomed a haul in client that was dedicated to learning, put in the effort, and isn’t unsafe.
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My barn has two options for boarding: one lesson/week minimum, or full training board (combo of lessons/ training rides). I can’t afford full training board, but I have never felt like I am less of a priority than boarders in full training. My coach is very dedicated to my development and success, and I feel she makes just as much time for me as for any other student. I know from her end she appreciates that I am equally dedicated - I can’t afford multiple lessons per week, but I ride 5-6 days and am diligent about practicing what I’ve learned and coming to my next lesson with questions and observations about rides through the week. I also take her advice seriously - if and when I want to go outside of/a different direction than what she’s suggested, I generally talk it over with her and we have great discussions that are productive for our working relationship.
I am fortunate that we’ve developed a good friendship over the years and we genuinely enjoy chatting through riding and training strategy with each other and I know that’s part of why things work so well. But I will say that, assessing objectively as is possible, I think my coach truly treats all of her students with equal care and dedication, even if some folks are doing three lessons a week and some are only doing one.
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In house full training clients are usually considered the core of a trainer’s business and maintaining the steady, predictable income they represent is generally how that professional “keeps the lights on,” so to speak - paying the facility rent/mortgage, etc. (Most ship in clients don’t have contractual arrangements that provide notice will be given if they decide to make a change, for example.) Trainers are typically very focused on those customers because without them, maintaining a facility and a home base becomes very difficult.
Also, typically those full training clients are pretty committed to doing things the way the trainer thinks will be most successful - whether that is more training rides, a particular type of schedule, or what have you. Most trainers prefer that kind of control, not because they are jerks, but because they care about the progress and success of the horses in their program. (And let’s face it, that is typically the best “advertising” that the trainer’s business will have.)
Ship in clients, even those that come quite regularly, typically don’t represent the same stability or opportunity for a trainer. I think if the trainers you are working with are “energetic” about teaching you, and allow you to ship in, that is a pretty good arrangement. You are getting what you pay for, which is focused attention during your lesson time. (I suppose the exception would be the trainer who cancels your session when the in house clients need additional attention, but it sounds like they were up front and honest about that policy - in other words, they fit ship in lessons around the needs of their full training clients.)
The additional complication you have is rotating your horses for lessons, so the trainer has limited opportunity to focus on developing any one particular partnership. That doesn’t mean you don’t learn useful skills each time, but from the standpoint of the trainer’s investment, so to speak, the progress is likely to be different from what they might expect to accomplish with a horse and rider team that they work with much more consistently.
In any case, the way to be taken more seriously, (taking the leap that by that you mean feeling that the trainer becomes more invested in you and doesn’t bump your lessons in favor of other clients) is to get really, really good and become one of the trainer’s most accomplished and successful clients. A lot of trainers really love the clients who win a lot (particularly if the client then attributes all their success to the trainer’s program in a very public way.)
For what it is worth, I was a full training client for many years before I bought my own farm. Like you, I invested in a really nice arena and I enjoy hanging out with the horses in the evening with a glass of wine and I doubt I will ever go back to boarding. I accept that this means there will be a big difference in my perceived value to a trainer. I have a couple of very nice horses, and I ride OK, I have a very respectable competition record and a history of treating my trainers very well, always paying on time and happily supporting my trainer’s opportunities (paying for clinic rides, etc) to grow professionally and so on. It is still quite a challenge. Luckily I have a wonderful professional who is willing to come to my place a few times a week and is a good fit for my horses (and me) from a riding and teaching perspective. I treat her like the precious unicorn that she is and work hard to make sure my horses will represent her program in a very positive light.
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Things to keep in mind:
- You’re a potential client and your money is as good as those who board at the trainer’s barn. Never think it’s not.
- If trainer(s) choose to turn down your money by not coming to your farm to teach you, then they don’t need the business.
- If you cannot find a local trainer to come you, consider paying the travel expenses of a really good one to come to you once or twice a month.
How to cover that expense ? Use the money you saved by not paying training board and/or offer other riders the opportunity to have a lesson
with your really good out of town trainer. Charge them a little extra to help pay the travel expenses. - Even if you move to the trainer’s barn, you still may feel like you’re not being taken seriously. Then what would you do ? You’d move back to your own farm.
after having spent all that money for nothing. - Stay home. That’s where you want to be, and it works best for you and your horses. Do what works for you, and not the trainer(s) who don’t need your business.
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"As a life-long “truck in student” – you have to find the right trainer.
Some will not take you seriously however well you ride or however talented you are. Some will give you some time but not be your #1. Almost all of them will prioritize their boarding clients – and why shouldn’t they? They get so much more out of their boarders.
Keep shopping around"
This. It is not clear from your post what you would consider being taken “seriously”. If you are looking to show your horses successfully, that is different from someone who is simply looking to ride, train and progress on their own. Both can be “serious” riders, but not all trainers view them as such. You need to find a trainer who is in sync with you - in terms of goals, and training style. Consider the trainer’s goals as well. Several posters have offered good suggestions for finding someone that suits you.
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I think that you can be taken seriously – by the right trainer – but that it’s probably unrealistic to expect to be prioritized over full training board clients.
I rode for years on a very regular basis with an excellent instructor – either hauling in, or having her come out to me – but suddenly it became very difficult to book a lesson with her, to have phone calls returned, etc. After a few months of this (with only a couple of lessons to show for it), she finally admitted to me that she had filled her schedule with horses in full training, and no longer had the time for haul-in, lesson-only clients.
I told her that I understood (I really did, especially as she was an older trainer without a working student), and didn’t consider it to be personal, as there are only so many hours in the day or energy to give, but wondered why on earth she couldn’t have told me this earlier? After almost four years of regular working together (and I’d brought her a couple additional students), it would have been nice - and more professional, IMO - if she had informed me in a more timely fashion, instead of ghosting me.
Meanwhile, I’d picked up a few lessons with another trainer of the same “school” of training, and had been hauling to him; eventually, he began coming to my place. Some months later, the first instructor did call me to say that her schedule had suddenly opened up. But, by this time, the second trainer was a weekly fixture at my home, and had obtained a few more clients through me as well.
I had enjoyed working with the first instructor, but was concerned that I could possibly be cut off suddenly in the future if/when her schedule booked solid with full-training clients, once again without notice, so didn’t take her up on returning as a haul-in student.
As always, communication is key.
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Ultimately the question is what’s the advantage for the trainer. The majority of people in business are looking to increase turnover / profit, so someone who trailers in for lessons will generate less attention then someone who commits money for both board and lessons.
However you can do something about it, but that means using any successes you have to advertise your trainer. If you have a win or high score you need to put it on social media, always @ & thank your trainer, you don’t need to be totally gushing but every little helps to bring the trainer’s focus back onto you.
ETA: It doesn’t even have to be a win: “fantastic lesson today, I can’t believe how much we’ve improved with @ trainer, my confidence has increased so much!” Every little helps 😀
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Oh, this is good. This is very good.
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I find situations like the one you describe so fascinating (and have had similar experiences.)
For instance, as a regular client of your first trainer, you would think that it would be a simple thing for them to say to you, “hey @Jarpur, I am adjusting my business model to prioritize full training clients. As you’ve been with me a long time, I wanted to make sure I offered you a slot if you wanted to work with me in that capacity. If not, totally understand but just wanted to let you know my future availability might be more limited.”
They would have offered you, a long time customer, the opportunity to stick with the program, which you might well have done, if that was the only option to continue with a trainer you were happy with. (Of course they also would have treated you more professionally, instead of ghosting you as they chose to do instead.)
There is really no downside to them being upfront about the situation. I suppose they might have lost the income from one or two lessons if you immediately responded, “oh, thanks so much but I’m not really up for a full training situation, turns out I have a plan B all ready to go all lined up so good luck with your new business.” But more likely, you would have appreciated the upfront communication, asked about what times might still be available under the new, more limited schedule, and taken those few remaining lessons anyway.
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Yes, this exactly!
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There are certainly trainers who will not take clients seriously who keep their horses at home and don’t keep them in the trainer’s “program”. I think there can be some valid reasons for this, but also a lot of bullshit ones.
I will say, I’ve been very fortunate to have a trainer who has never treated me like a second-class citizen because I keep my horses at home. However, I think trainers who don’t have your horse in their program want to see that you’re keeping your horse in a program that is designed to make progress. In order to get the highest level of service from a trainer, you should make sure that you’re putting in the work and doing your homework. It’ll help keep the relationship fresh and moving ahead.
And like others said, communication is key. There’s nothing wrong with telling a trainer your circumstances, letting them know that you work hard at home, and want to be taken seriously. See what they say. If they can have a conversation about their own expectations, then that’s a great place to start.
Working at home by yourself is hard, even harder than being in full training in a lot of ways. My blog (link below) talks all about some of those challenges.
And for another perspective, my trainer (Lauren Sprieser) has blogged about her students who keep their horses at home and what she sees as being the keys to success in keeping your horses at home. https://www.chronofhorse.com/article…ding-from-home
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IME you can and should expect to be “taken seriously” if you are working seriously. But you can’t expect to be prioritized over full training clients. I am okay with that as long as we all know how things are going to go. Now, if the lack of priority leads to a lot of cancelled lessons, I might have to re-evaluate whether I can benefit from the arrangement.
I have seen some trainers give shoddy, distracted lessons to ship-ins on less fancy horses. I would never pay them for a lesson. But most gave a good, honest lesson for the time paid for. I find they also get more engaged when they find the rider has really practiced in between times and is actively engaged in the learning. One trainer I trailered to actually told a rider to stop wasting her money on lessons with her. That rider was at a basic level and admitted to little or no practice between lessons (and tended to want to talk more than ride during lessons). The trainer didn’t want to take her money each week to tell her the same things that the rider already knew but didn’t practice. :no:
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This is gold and is so incredibly helpful! My horse is out of state and I lesson at home in an academy program. I LOVE the trainer here and would eventually love to move my horse to the program once I’m ready to bring him home, and I want to stay in good graces with the trainer and keep creating opportunities to ride. This is fantastic, helpful and very timely advice! Thank your for chiming in!
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Yes. This!!
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I’m not familiar at all with the area you’re in, but what about taking some dressage lessons with someone who specializes in eventing? Some eventers are incredibly strong dressage riders, and the culture of eventing (by its very nature) is much more open to self-care and owners taking lessons from different professionals, versus being locked into a rigid program.
I’m unfortunately not leasing a horse now, but the best experience I had riding was leasing a dressage horse, taking lessons with a woman who specialized in eventing (but also taught dressage lessons), and being part of the little community she created with her clients, all of which rode at different barns or had horses at home. We still went to clinics and shows together, or even just spectated at higher level events, but there was no pressure to change one’s situation.
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You have to think about it differently. You have your horses at your farm because it is more convenient for you, you have more control, etc.
A trainer is going to spend much more time coming to your facility and teaching only you then if they were teaching in their home barn. And you are also much less committed to them than someone who boards in the facility and is in full time training.
You can certainly be taken seriously as a student, but from a business standpoint it would be somewhat crazy for a trainer to prioritize you over a student in full time training, for several reasons (overall commitment, convenience, ongoing income, etc).
It’s just that some trainers are more obvious about it and present it better.
For awhile I boarded at a training barn that was also a sales barn. If someone was coming to see a horse, all lessons were canceled and you were not to come on the property. It didn’t work for me, so I moved on. But I get their point of view - they are going to make a whole lot more money selling a very expensive horse than teaching me one lesson or even training me for a year.
I don’t think it is unreasonable to decide to give an extra lesson to a client in full training right before a show instead of teaching a haul in. I might not appreciate being told about it, but it isn’t unreasonable. Certainly you hope the trainer could do both, but everyone is juggling different things in life and some people are willing to do more extra things than others.
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IMO, your trainer is all about herself. She an expert in making her clients & staff “feel,” important to their faces but - on the many occasions she’s trailered in for lessons at a barn I was in f/t with, she complained about having students. She always made it clear the “Elvis syndicate,” was her main priority & getting sponsors to help “recognize,” them. Unfortunately, the trainer at my barn never thought Elvis had the “it,” factor & he’d express this the moment they pulled away.
All I’m saying is, a truly great trainer will give you all their attention & focus and leave themselves or stories about their own “accomplishments,”/wishes for accomplishments,” out of your training. You will get every dime’s worth every time.
I have a German trainer who comes to me Tuesday-Saturday & trains me & 3-4 horses back to back. He spends equal time on each horse with me & if there’s an issue I can’t resolve myself- he’ll hop on and straighten it out while explaining each step of what he’s doing. Of course, working for/being partners with a really BNT means he has other people to deliver his attention to & Im perfectly fine with that. Most great trainers (world class, who have developed numerous International GP horses & riders) will spot how serious you are about improving & give you (not themselves) the exact amount of “seriousness,” you display to them. These trainers have been there & done that so many times, their own “success,” in the sport is known & they don’t need plug themselves at all. If anything, their goal is to “plug,” you - every chance they get. That’s the description of a exceptional trainer. Not their blogs - not their self promotion - just the know how, experience & complete focus on you. Again… JMHO.
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It’s so interesting that that people explain how it “makes good business sense” to give much more attention to those people who board their horse with the pro and have it in full training. If board is a loss leader and those clients want/get the little extra bits of care/time/advice that the pro gives, how is the trainer actually making more money per hour with those guys than with the pure lesson students?
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