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Can someone tell me about the Oldenburg NA?

Sport Horse Breeding
#141

Also, I will not deny that it is hard to get hold of Holly. She spent a lot of time on the road this past year going to inspection sites because the inspector they had hired - Karsten Kuehl - is being prevented by ISR from working in N.A.

Holly did have someone else in the office most of the summer to take phone calls and handle some paperwork issues, but she is a trainee, so there is a lot she still doesn’t know how to do. She is gone now for several months, but will be back early next year. Another part of the problem is that the registry has grown enormously, esp. these past two years, which of course generates more work for the office staff. They are working on all these issues but change doesn’t happen overnight. It takes time to get approval to hire a new person, find the right person, train that person, etc.

#142

Also Membership for 2008 is only $65 if paid before Nov 30th 2007. After that it is $100.

#143

I swore I wouldn’t step into this but DownYonder posts the following:

" Karsten Kuehl - is being prevented by ISR from working in N.A.".

Mr. Kuehl is an ADULT. When he was hired by the ISR/OLDNA he signed a CONTRACT voluntarily as a condition of hire. The contract contained a no-compete clause. He was consciously aware of that when he decided to take a job with the GOV. The non-compete clause was enforced by the ISR/OLDNA. Unfortunately he DID NOT TELL the GOV he had this restriction and allowed them to schedule him for inspections in North America KNOWING he could not serve in that capacity in 2007. The no-compete does not run for much longer.

Every breeder has the free choice to work with the registries they want to work with. I register ALL my horses and ponies through the ISR/OLDNA and do serve on their Advisory Board. I do so because they offer my breeding program what I want. I did work with another registry for some of my horses in the past but the rules seemed to change yearly and I didn’t agree with the goals.

The ISR/OLDNA is:

  1. A U.S. non-profit corporation
  2. All the funds going into this corporation are held in U.S. BANKS. The money stays here.
  3. It files State and Federal Tax return based on audited financial statements every year on a timely basis.
  4. The Rules and Regulations are provided in writing. And any changes in the rules are NOT retro-active to prior years to avoid placing negative financial implications on breeders.
  5. The standards are what I expect in a sporthorse registry and are on par with those in Europe. The scoring system is reviewed yearly to assess if minimum scores should be increased and/or changed.
  6. It has a very large stallion book to pick from and all scores for stallions from their testing and licensing are made public.
  7. All foals are inspected and scored and the scores are published yearly
  8. The Star programs for Stallions and Mares offers incentives to breeders and recognition to the horses that achieve these awards
  9. The registry focuces SOLELY on serving North American breeders.
  10. It created and financially supports the North American Breeder Futurity
  11. While the goals are always to breed horses for the top levels of disciplines, the registry has a clear understanding and ongoing commitment to the largest segment of our industry - the Amateur Owners and Riders.
  12. The registry has a clear and ongoing understanding that the Hunter discipline exists in North America (and not in Europe) and is an important part of our target market in our breeding programs.
  13. The registry works very hard to balance services against the cost to each member. Decisions regarding the cost to implement changes to websites or newsletters are ALWAYS balanced against whether this will require increased fees to our members. And are they justified.
  14. Years ago the Registry worked very hard to raise the standard of service in the office so that members were getting prompt response to inquiries and that paperwork was turned around quickly. The registry considers Customer Service to be the most important focus for this registry.
  15. The registry saw the need to expand and add a Sportpony division and did.
  16. Every board meeting includes discussion on what services and programs should be considere to expand the registry.

I’ve worked with other registries and realize that my choice fits my program but might not fit what other people need. The financial side is important to me - because I worked in the financial world and require that in any organization I work with. We all have huge investment of not only time and emotion but also MONEY in our breeding programs regardless of size. I want to know the organization will continue to be HERE in North America to serve my investment. I don’t want the possibility to exist that decisions in Europe could negatively impact years of work and huge investment of time and money in my business or worse have someone pull the plug and leave me stranded with NO organization.

I just wish this constant mud-slinging would stop. Denegrating another registry for whatever reason - doesn’t help the industry in general. With the Euro/dollar exchange as it is - and the VAT in Germany now at 19% - we are all poised in a much stronger financial situation to SELL OUR HOMEBRED HORSES TO BUYERS HERE. The cost of not only buying a horse/pony in Europe is a very costly situation and shipping is also being hammered by the exchange rate. Ponies I purchased over a year ago in Westfalia are shipping in now - the cost of the shipping is staggering.

The more we cat-fight here - the better it is for the people in Europe selling horses.

I KNOW we are breeding foals that are comparable in quality to Europe. Our mare base is is now close to being on par as well. We are seeing more and more home-bred stallions that offer breeders here the bloodlines and quality of Europe. We are now only being held back by our horrible lack of young horse trainers. We are seeing more and more upper level riders considering and buying North American bred horses for the Young Horse Championships and those horses are moving up the ranks.

Why keep this wash woman argument going about the ISR/OLDNA and GOV? It’s like shooting yourself in the foot. If you don’t like a registry - DON’T WORK WITH IT.

Chris - honestly it’s time to let this go.

#144

To the OP -

I only got into breeding and registry stuff in the last 5 yrs. I swore I would not do it, but… now Im hooked.

As for registires, I have now dealt with almost every single one of them and this is what I can say.

  1. There are good and BAD horses in every single one of them. None are a super elite of the best of the best, etc, etc, yaddy, yaddy…
  2. All have their own issues and polotics
  3. Some have more strict rules than others but its not always a BAD thing that this is in place
  4. In the long run you have to find what works easy for you. Breeding is an expensive and time consuming hobby/job/habit. You have to find what will work for you and your needs. As in distance to inspections, dues due for year, mares that they will accept based on what you can afford to buy, etc, etc.
    But in short, there are super horses in each. Even the AWS, yes… I said American Warmblood Society had horses placing at the top of the charts this year, no matter what the stigma is behind everyone thoughts on how “bad” that registry is as well.

In short, just know your horses/bloodlines/type and deal with the registry that is the easiest for you.

#145

ILona, that’s an impressive list.

The organization has come a long way and as I said in some thread, maybe this one, it has become the umbrella organization for the US given the sheer number of stallions available across a wide spectrum of bloodlines.

Transparency is important. So is being a member-based organization.

I don’t have any horses in the ISR at this time.

The mud slinging is a distraction and hurts both organizations. I think many people have moved on, but then some newbie will ask about the difference and it starts another thread.

#146

[QUOTE=Oakstable;2763528]

The mud slinging is a distraction and hurts both organizations. I think many people have moved on, but then some newbie will ask about the difference and it starts another thread.[/QUOTE]

Maybe we should put together a short position paper - one from both sides - and have a link to it that when this issue comes up by a newbie, we can just refer them to read the position of each side and not have a new trainwreck each time.

I vote for Ilona to write ISR side and Chris to write GOV side.

#147

Ilona, I don’t think anyone here has said that the ISR/oldna isn’t an organized & strong organization. As I said, it “could” have been THE American registry. But, instead, you guys cut off your nose to spite your face by hanging onto the “oldenburg” name/brand.

You can not deny that the decision to do so has left a considerable bad taste in many breeders mouths - many who were NOT oldenburg breeders - just outside, looking in and said thanks but no thanks.

Your argue to just let it go and, for the most part it has. But, until your organization gives up that Oldenburg designation, they never will be what they could have become. The potential of being THE American registry with an American brand and image is HUGE. Imagine being the head of a registry ranked in the WBFSH pulling the entire U.S. sporthorse industry together and competing head to head against all the other WBFSH ranked studbooks on a worldwide basis.

You guys missed the boat.

#148

Tri - I won’t debate an opinion. It’s your opinion - I don’t share it.

#149

[QUOTE=ise@ssl;2763464]
With the Euro/dollar exchange as it is - and the VAT in Germany now at 19% - we are all poised in a much stronger financial situation to SELL OUR HOMEBRED HORSES TO BUYERS HERE. The cost of not only buying a horse/pony in Europe is a very costly situation and shipping is also being hammered by the exchange rate. Ponies I purchased over a year ago in Westfalia are shipping in now - the cost of the shipping is staggering.
.[/QUOTE]

Wouldn’t a US buyer get the VAT back upon importation to the US? Regardless, it is exorbitantly expensive to purchase abroad, no doubt (it was 10K in shipping fees and quarantine to import a mare recently). But I am just curious about the VAT issue.

#150

[QUOTE=ise@ssl;2763464]
Mr. Kuehl is an ADULT. When he was hired by the ISR/OLDNA he signed a CONTRACT voluntarily as a condition of hire. The contract contained a no-compete clause. He was consciously aware of that when he decided to take a job with the GOV. The non-compete clause was enforced by the ISR/OLDNA. Unfortunately he DID NOT TELL the GOV he had this restriction and allowed them to schedule him for inspections in North America KNOWING he could not serve in that capacity in 2007. The no-compete does not run for much longer.[/QUOTE]

As usual, there is more to the story than either you or I are posting here. However, I am wondering - are you saying that ISR is going to let Kuehl work for the Verband in North America after 2007? Are you promising that ISR will take no further legal action against Kuehl or anyone else if he works here?

#151

Chris - give it up - really - you keep saying you don’t represent the Verband. The issue is a personnel issue for the Verband. Let them handle it.
I’m done.

#152

[QUOTE=ise@ssl;2763948]
Chris - give it up - really - you keep saying you don’t represent the Verband. The issue is a personnel issue for the Verband. Let them handle it.
I’m done.[/QUOTE]

So I guess the answer is no?

#153

I don’t think something like this needs to take more than about 24 hours to solve. Anyone out of town is probably staying at night in a room with a phone line. A laptop can be purchased in less than 24 hours. If you are running a registry, you need to respond quickly, period.

I am only running a small farm, and I answer calls and emails on my vacation, as well as from the hotel at Devon. Even if new office staff does not know ANY answers, it is easy to teach someone to dial a phone, or hit reply in an email saying, “We well get back to you in 2 days, or next week.”

#154

[QUOTE=ise@ssl;2763464]
I swore I wouldn’t step into this but DownYonder posts the following:

" Karsten Kuehl - is being prevented by ISR from working in N.A.".

Mr. Kuehl is an ADULT. When he was hired by the ISR/OLDNA he signed a CONTRACT voluntarily as a condition of hire. The contract contained a no-compete clause. He was consciously aware of that when he decided to take a job with the GOV. The non-compete clause was enforced by the ISR/OLDNA. Unfortunately he DID NOT TELL the GOV he had this restriction and allowed them to schedule him for inspections in North America KNOWING he could not serve in that capacity in 2007. The no-compete does not run for much longer.

Every breeder has the free choice to work with the registries they want to work with. I register ALL my horses and ponies through the ISR/OLDNA and do serve on their Advisory Board. I do so because they offer my breeding program what I want. I did work with another registry for some of my horses in the past but the rules seemed to change yearly and I didn’t agree with the goals.

The ISR/OLDNA is:

  1. A U.S. non-profit corporation
  2. All the funds going into this corporation are held in U.S. BANKS. The money stays here.
  3. It files State and Federal Tax return based on audited financial statements every year on a timely basis.
  4. The Rules and Regulations are provided in writing. And any changes in the rules are NOT retro-active to prior years to avoid placing negative financial implications on breeders.
  5. The standards are what I expect in a sporthorse registry and are on par with those in Europe. The scoring system is reviewed yearly to assess if minimum scores should be increased and/or changed.
  6. It has a very large stallion book to pick from and all scores for stallions from their testing and licensing are made public.
  7. All foals are inspected and scored and the scores are published yearly
  8. The Star programs for Stallions and Mares offers incentives to breeders and recognition to the horses that achieve these awards
  9. The registry focuces SOLELY on serving North American breeders.
  10. It created and financially supports the North American Breeder Futurity
  11. While the goals are always to breed horses for the top levels of disciplines, the registry has a clear understanding and ongoing commitment to the largest segment of our industry - the Amateur Owners and Riders.
  12. The registry has a clear and ongoing understanding that the Hunter discipline exists in North America (and not in Europe) and is an important part of our target market in our breeding programs.
  13. The registry works very hard to balance services against the cost to each member. Decisions regarding the cost to implement changes to websites or newsletters are ALWAYS balanced against whether this will require increased fees to our members. And are they justified.
  14. Years ago the Registry worked very hard to raise the standard of service in the office so that members were getting prompt response to inquiries and that paperwork was turned around quickly. The registry considers Customer Service to be the most important focus for this registry.
  15. The registry saw the need to expand and add a Sportpony division and did.
  16. Every board meeting includes discussion on what services and programs should be considere to expand the registry.

I’ve worked with other registries and realize that my choice fits my program but might not fit what other people need. The financial side is important to me - because I worked in the financial world and require that in any organization I work with. We all have huge investment of not only time and emotion but also MONEY in our breeding programs regardless of size. I want to know the organization will continue to be HERE in North America to serve my investment. I don’t want the possibility to exist that decisions in Europe could negatively impact years of work and huge investment of time and money in my business or worse have someone pull the plug and leave me stranded with NO organization.

I just wish this constant mud-slinging would stop. Denegrating another registry for whatever reason - doesn’t help the industry in general. With the Euro/dollar exchange as it is - and the VAT in Germany now at 19% - we are all poised in a much stronger financial situation to SELL OUR HOMEBRED HORSES TO BUYERS HERE. The cost of not only buying a horse/pony in Europe is a very costly situation and shipping is also being hammered by the exchange rate. Ponies I purchased over a year ago in Westfalia are shipping in now - the cost of the shipping is staggering.

The more we cat-fight here - the better it is for the people in Europe selling horses.

I KNOW we are breeding foals that are comparable in quality to Europe. Our mare base is is now close to being on par as well. We are seeing more and more home-bred stallions that offer breeders here the bloodlines and quality of Europe. We are now only being held back by our horrible lack of young horse trainers. We are seeing more and more upper level riders considering and buying North American bred horses for the Young Horse Championships and those horses are moving up the ranks.

Why keep this wash woman argument going about the ISR/OLDNA and GOV? It’s like shooting yourself in the foot. If you don’t like a registry - DON’T WORK WITH IT.

Chris - honestly it’s time to let this go.[/QUOTE]

Excellent post Ilona…

and of course there was a no compete clause… which any business would enforce. The only point I’d add is that while Karsten Kuehl was the Breeding Director for Oldenburg Registry North American some vocal GOV supporters ran with the message that Old NA inspectors weren’t good enough for the GOV. Truth is Dr. Kuehl worked for the GOV before and after he worked for Old NA. The GOV hiring Dr. Karsten Kuehl (both before he was the Old NA Breeding Director and after) puts into perspective how idiotic this back stabbing is.

It is not disputable that the Old NA is the oldest Oldenburg Registry in the USA, it was founded because the GOV freely chose to come here and guide American breeders to produce O and Crown branded Oldenburgs (just like a marketing agreement allowing Hondas to be assembled here, they are still Hondas, and the market value of the vehicle is grounded in the brand recognition). The Old Registry North America has continuously used well qualified inspectors to evaluate the Oldenburgs in their registry. To argue otherwise is absurd.

We can move forward to benefit all American Oldenburg Breeders.

#155

I did a Q&A article with Holly for the Riding magazine in California. She was on tour and trying to get back to me from various time zones in locales with no internet connection. It’s nuts. I hope she doesn’t have a stroke or a heart attack with the hours she puts in.

The Verband needs to hire someone to handle the nuts and bolts of registering and not get by on the cheap. The person does not need to be conversant in bloodlines.

#156

Thanks for everyone who replied with answers to my questions. One more? Are there other registries (GOV, Han. KWPN or NAWPN) that inspect 1/2 drafts and QHs for a lower book or a lower registry like NA has ISR?

#157

“(just like a marketing agreement allowing Hondas to be assembled here, they are still Hondas,”

Only as long as there is an agreement! Once there is no agreement, it isn’t “Honda” anymore and Honda would have squashed anyone trying to put “Honda” on anything other than someone authorized by Honda, squashed them like a bug.

BTW, non-competes are extremely hard to enforce in court - right to work and all that.

#158

I’d like to make one thing clear about the AQHA mare who was inspected at the Chestnut Lawn Farm inspection and recieved a score of 103 and was put into the pre mare book. Now I don’t know if mares producing pony foals are in a separate book or not. This mare had a power package premium colt by Forrest Flame who was the real hit of the inspection. Perhaps some of you pony breeders would know if the pony producers have a separate book from ISR pre mare book mares.

#159

Thank you DownYonder and Carosello for your information on the fees. I have been working with Holly in hopes of having my stallion approved with GOV and she has been very informtive and helpfull with me. She is very sweet and trying to meet all our needs. I’m sure if she’s not contacting you right away it’s a lack of communication because of her travels. I do believe a good way to deal with this is simply explain to the GOV’s, they need to update their communication. I think they’re trying very hard to be more NA user friendly.

As far as the huge O brand fight, I can’t understand that either. ISR/OLD NA is branding their horses with the O, and crown, and NA on the sides. The German brand is simply O with a crown. They’re already different brands. O, crown, NA for North America, and O, with a crown, for the German bred or GOV horses. This seems so simple to me…

And one more thing. most of my mares are hanoverian. They have the Han brand. But the foals I have registered with them, Have a H, US, brand on their butt!

And I do understand why there’s the huge fight about the brand because the forlks who are buying my foals want a brand, either Hann or ISR/Old, which are who I deal with now. If they’re older horses already under saddle, they aren’t as concerned. But people buying babies are very concerned with bloodlines, inspection status, registry, and brands.

www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net

#160

I’ve seen some non sporthorse mares inspected by Dr. Vollstedt at GOV inspections, and they got C of P papers on the foals.

Some of the foals were Premium quality but lacked pedigree.

ISR = certificate of pedigree, and I think all the major warmblood registeries in the US have that category.

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