Can steroids (specifically Kenalog) cause hoof bruising?

[jcc813]

Thanks–definitely going to to talk to him about all the options. I know w IRAP and PRP I’ve had vets tell me those work better on soft tissue than joints.

I have asked before how he picks what he’s going to use. At the time he did say he would likely always still use steroids b/c of its efficacy, but yeah…I don’t want the risk of creating more issues.

And honestly, if I think back to when we first started injecting him a couple years ago, he never got fully back to 100%. Granted, other issues also seemed to come up. The initial vet who used betavet had said based on post-injection videos that his hind end did look better, but we were still seeing off/on uneveness.

Our farrier suggested perhaps compounded predef. I haven’t heard of that one before.

[joiedevie99]

@jcc813

I have asked before how he picks what he’s going to use. At the time he did say he would likely always still use steroids b/c of its efficacy, but yeah…I don’t want the risk of creating more issues.

If your vet isn’t regularly using some of these newer therapies, he may just not be comfortable recommending them. There is nothing wrong with that - but this horse may need someone different. Do you have a sports medicine practice in the area, or a referral clinic that you could take him to?

[IPEsq]

I like using ProStride or Renovo in hocks. That’s what I do with my IR horse. Thankfully, triamcinoline never seems to make him laminitic, but he did colic twice. His baseline insulin is ok but with the karo syrup test, it shot up as high as the test measures and didn’t come down at all after 90 minutes. So we aren’t doing steroids anymore for anything except maybe Dex would still be used if he has a very serious allergic reaction. And I also don’t want to repeat the sugar test and throw him into hyperinsulinemia.

[jcc813]

Actually current vet is fairly read up on all the latest treatments and uses them. He mostly focuses on only lameness cases now.

That’s one of the reasons why we stopped going to the betavet-only vet. She was more old school and didn’t do anything beyond steroids, PRP or IRAP. When we wanted to try Renovo she wouldn’t do it. She was also against Noltrex.

[jcc813]

At today’s appointment vet actually suggested we could try ProStride bc he said it had the platelets plus other benefits and these days he can usually treat multiple joints out of one batch.

On lunge and jog today vet said hocks do look better but he appeared to be loading his LF which made him think RF was the issue. Also had pulses in RF and RH.

We’re going to wait a couple weeks then re-evaluate and possibly X-ray and treat w Prostride.

[OzarksRider]

@jcc813

possibly X-ray

X-rays are a good idea. That might clarify what’s going on, or at least rule out some things.

Like others have said, I’d stay away from all steroids from now on.

@jcc813

I did just talk to another farrier who said laminitis from steroids is rare in TBs—more common in quarter horses and WBs. She seemed to think it might be more related to the doxy…

This comment caught my eye because I’ve never heard of doxycycline causing laminitis. On the contrary, it has been studied as a treatment for laminitis due to its anti-inflammatory properties:

https://portal.nifa.usda.gov/web/crisprojectpages/0216724-treatment-of-experimental-equine-laminitis-with-doxycycline.html

Doxycycline-Cascade.pdf

[NaturallyHappy]

@OzarksRider

This comment caught my eye because I’ve never heard of doxycycline causing laminitis

I wonder if he meant dex…

[jcc813]

I just remembered the MRI vet had recommended Osphos in addition to Renovo based on the findings.

We haven’t tried that yet—I know it’s a different type of treatment from what the biologics and steroid do. Now wondering if that might be worth trying before going to Pro Stride…

Re the doxy…I don’t think the farrier was saying that causes laminitis. She was suggesting maybe that (or rather the Lyme) could be what’s making him off.

Talked to a friend whose horse had bad laminitis and she mentioned looking for rings as signs of past issue.

Took pictures today. Is circled part on RF a sign?

[NaturallyHappy]

To my eye it is.

[jcc813]

What about the whitish tops of all four? Or is that just bc it’s new growth?

The injections were 7 weeks ago. Last shoeing was 2 weeks ago but farrier didn’t mention seeing white line—just the bruising and abscess.

Injections before last were 8 months ago. Would’ve thought to see a line further down the hoof but with winter I’m assuming feet were also growing more slowly…

[jvanrens]

@jcc813

What about the whitish tops of all four?

That is normal in my experience, either that or I’ve been showing foundered/sore horses for a long time

[NaturallyHappy]

Agreed…looks normal to me. I don’t see the indentation in the other pictures.

[jcc813]

We got rads of all 4 feet last week. It looked like the RF had maybe a hint of starting rotation–there was also a slight dip on the front which corresponds w/ the line I saw on the foot–but fortunately nothing severe.

RH did present negative angle.

There were also more pronounced digital pulses on his hind feet compared to the front which the vet was a little puzzled by.

On flexion he was barely positive–vet said he was going to note “negative” on the report.

On lunge, he did have a hitch in his step going R, favoring his LF, which is what he’s been showing over the last few weeks. However, vet thought he looked better compared to a couple weeks ago and the surprising thing is he’d been off firocoxib for a week while I was waiting on a refill but actually looked better than when he was on it. Video: https://youtu.be/gtY-uCNay2c

Vet’s recommendation is to hold off on additional treatment for now and just put him back into work and see how he does. He doesn’t think for the level of riding we do that it’s necessarily worth it right now to put more in to get that extra 10-15% improvement. If we do have to revisit in the future, he recommends trying ProStride.

At farrier appointment, he did have bruising on the toes and a crack on the RF that ran to the heel likely from old abscess. Farrier repeated full pads with pour in on front and switched to eggbars on the hinds.

A part of me is still a little worried that the small hitch will cause him to overcompensate somewhere else, but vet didn’t seem too concerned.

Anything we might be missing?

Rads from last week (4.5 weeks from last shoeing):

Image of RH from 8-7-2023 where he was also 0 to negative angled (6 weeks and 4 days out):

Hinds from 8-22-2023 (1 week and 2 days out with former farrier):

[IPEsq]

Without blocking the LF or doing anything else (taking solar views of the foot, or ultrasound, etc) it’s hard to say what’s going on there. It’s not always the case, but my vet tends to lean towards a soft tissue issue if the leg is lame only when on the outside of a circle. But I’ve experienced that with pedal osteitis on the medial side of P3 and other reasons.