Good idea tiramit! 
Dune, here’s two links. The first is a good recent article from the AAEP’s The Horse. And the second is, I believe, the actual study mentioned in the article. It takes some crunching of numbers but it seems to me Group One in the study had 35 lame horses, MRI didn’t pick up any abnormalities in 5 of them. Let me know if you agree with my arithmetic, or not. 
And let me know if you can’t access the links, they might be subscriber only.
http://www.thehorse.com/viewarticle.aspx?ID=2295
http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/AAEP/2003/mair/chapter_frm.asp?LA=1
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tiramit:
Bone scan (Nuclear Scintigraphy)
What is it? A process of injecting a horse with a radioactive / dye combination shot that results in a color-coded photo displaying injuries to the skeleton. The body is color coded by “activity”, thereby showing hot points where the horse has pain or discomfort. Different sections of the horse can be imaged - front half, back half, just the legs, etc.
What is done? The horse is injected iv with dye that attaches itself to all active bone cells and a radioactive compound. The drugs move through the blood stream and show skeletal damage and injury. Highly active bone will be more radioactive.
It’s a slow procedure, taking up to a couple of hours for certain images. The horse will be slightly radioactive for up to 48 hours after the procedure.
Cost? Anywhere from $900 - 2500. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just wanted to add that a bone scan also has a “soft tissue phase” that will show hot spots in areas like ligaments, suspensories, etc. not just the bones. This is good for diagnosing those hard to pinpoint lamenesses. Then normally what would happen is the vets would follow up with an ultrasound of the area in question. If during the bone phase, they find a hot spot, they would then follow up with an x-ray. If the x-ray doesn’t show up with anything, but an injury or abnormality is still highly suspected you would then follow up (depending on the body part) with an MRI or CT. I’d love to hear more from someone who has done that. So the nuclear scan a tool that leads them in a particular direction, rather than something like an u/s or an x-ray that would tell you exactly (hopefully) what is going on. Regarding the “slightly radioactive” part, even though when humans have this test they are sent home right away, govermental laws usually require that the horse has to be kept at least overnight and the manure disposed off as hazardous waste. You are also not allowed to visit with your horsie until he/she is ready for pick-up. So be ready to say your goodbyes for 24-48 hours when you pull up to the clinic. 
MRI REPORT #1
(what it’s for, how it’s done, how much it costs. #2, “what we found out,” tomorrow, when we’ve, um, found something out)
Spent this morning at the Dupont Equine Med Center in Leesburg VA getting an MRI on my horse’s front feet.
The shoes are removed, and you, horse, vet, and tech all retire to a carefully shielded room which has a set of “stocks” (like a standing stall) in front of a huge magnet on a moveable track. The horse is sedated – he must be able to stand absolutely still for long periods of time.
The foot is positioned very precisely, and then the magnet is moved to surround the foot (so if the magnet is a “U,” the hoof is in the opening of the two branches).
For my horse with sore heels, we did maybe 6 series on each foot. Each series can take 4+ minutes to do, and if the horse moves even the tiniest amount (like a big sigh or a shiver of that leg), the series needs to be redone. Between this, re-upping sedation, and fiddling with the software, it takes AT BEST 2 hours to do 2 hooves. It took us closer to 4. They typically do both feet even if only one is a problem, so they can do comparative studies.
My vet clinic is reading the images this evening and will call me with initial results tonight.
You can see incredibly clear and detailed 360 degree images of the hoof – everything in the hoof, including tendons and ligaments and fluid. They can do up to about the hock with this unit. They are planning to add a table so they can do general anesthesia and do other body parts – apparently the one in Wash State can do this already. I wouldn’t want general for the feet, though – it was sort of painstaking, but half an hour later he was perky and grazing outside.
Total cost for procedure, all the hours of vet and tech time, and analysis = $1100.
Bea,
When I had a horse checked for ulcers, the endoscope was passed through a nostril, not the mouth.
And it can only see ulcers in the stomach, not the intestines, and so can miss many ulcers.
There is a generic version of Gastroguard out (it has been out for years, actually) and costs 1/2 the price of Gastroguard. Many trainers at racetracks use it and will testify that it works just fine – The manufacturer of Gastroguard push the “FDA tested” part, but that is their deal to keep people spending double what they have to. God love 'em.
I paid $400 for the endoscope. I guess I got taken. But R&R is very expensive on many things. They have to pay the salaries of the big guys somehow. Damn. That’s why this thread is so good. We can find out what others are paying for a test, and, within an acceptable range, what that test should cost.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madame Butterfly:
Lord Helpus, I read an article (forgive me, I can’t remember where…) that soon, ulcers will be able to be detected either by testing the blood or urine … the bottom line is that the process will be easier and less expensive. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It’s here! I think it was The Horse where I read the article.
Dune, I had a nuclear scintigraphy done on a horse at Las Colinas in Irving, TX a few weeks ago. It was $850 for the whole body scan. The bone scan led us to the problem area and then we ultrasounded her ankle and definitively found the problem. This was after numerous other vets had flexed, injected, etc. all the wrong areas. Too bad we did not do the bone scan when I wanted to a few months ago. I might have a sound horse by now and be a couple of thousand $$ to the better.
Yup, 1100 bucks for 2 feet (but as I said, they said they usually do 2 feet)…
Not that I won’t be feeling that 1100 bucks when the credit cards come due, but…
- Having my farrier suggest it would cost 10k made this seem reasonable and
- I know I’ve spent more than 1100 bucks in the 2 years we’ve had issues, even with insurance reimbursement, so if this allows us to see what is really going on and have a sensible plan, it’ll be a bargain
asterix, I was hoping you would check in soon, thank you for not forgetting about us.
Wow. Can’t wait to hear what the vet says. So that’s $1100 for two feet, right? Just want to be sure I read the number of feet correctly. I have to say I imagined the cost could be even more. Not that I don’t gulp at the sight of $1100.
Really good point, MB. I read that too, here’s the relevant bits.
"Diagnosing equine gastric ulcers might soon be a procedure that’s short and sweet. Until recently, ulcer detection depended on using an endoscope to peer at the stomach lining. Now, a team of researchers at Texas A&M University, led by Noah Cohen, VMD, PhD, and J. B. Meddings of the University of Calgary’s Gastrointestinal Research Group, says gastric ulcers can be identified and assessed for severity using a simple test for sucrose in the urine. This method has already proved reliable in diagnosing ulcers in humans, rats, and dogs.
With results this conclusive, and a testing protocol established, it should take very little time for veterinarians to incorporate urine testing–a much simpler, cheaper, and less invasive technique–into their diagnostic routine for gastric ulcers.
There’s also potential to use sucrose levels in the blood of suspected ulcer cases to indicate the presence of ulcers. This convenient possibility is currently being explored by Texas A&M and Mississippi State University researchers.
Furthermore, researchers at the University of Adelaide in Australia are investigating the use of a sucrose breath test, which has successfully detected gastric ulcers in humans and dogs. Essentially, an individual who doesn’t absorb sucrose properly should have detectably higher levels of hydrogen and methane in his exhaled breath. If this holds true for horses, it could provide another simple, efficient, and inexpensive way to diagnose gastric ulceration and, with any luck, help veterinarians catch ulcers faster and treat them earlier."
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by asterix: OK, I will give you a teaser – going to get an MRI on my horse’s front feet at the Dupont vet hospital in Leesburg VA on Thursday. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ooooo… good luck, take notes, and report back! On Thursday evening! And here’s really hoping your farrier was joking.
Lord Helpus, I read an article (forgive me, I can’t remember where…) that soon, ulcers will be able to be detected either by testing the blood or urine … the bottom line is that the process will be easier and less expensive.
OK, I will give you a teaser – going to get an MRI on my horse’s front feet at the Dupont vet hospital in Leesburg VA on Thursday.
I have not had the heart to ask the cost (am only hoping my farrier was joking when he said 10k today) because it is really the only thing we haven’t done yet, and I am at the end of the road with my horse’s mystery lameness.
He has some variety of sore heels in front, and I won’t bore you with the history, but we can’t pinpoint what’s wrong and can’t seem to make it stay right for a sustained period of time.
So, off to MRI-land. I will report back on cost, time involved, and what we discovered after Thursday.
Interesting asterix!
Do you know if a similar process is used for body MRI’s (and if that is possible)? You mentioned having to lay them on the table for that…?
Hope you find out what’s bugging your horse!
