Can we talk about barn fire safety?

[PeanutButterPony]

I don’t stall mine overnight unless it is both raining AND cold. Just cold? Get out. Just raining? Out out out.

So I think that’s the point of the blanketing response- leave them out. Unless you have elderly, infirm, or otherwise compromised horses- the air is cleaner outside. Leave them out.

Short of that, ask your local fire department for a walk through of your barn for their input. Pay a real electrician to get it up to code. Get rid of aged and worn electronic equipment.

the simplest and cheapest thing to do is leave them out. Mine would run to the pasture for safety - it’s where they live. so many of us humans want them ‘safely tucked inside’- they are safer chucked outside.

[King_s_Ransom]

Well … that may be true in Florida. Here on the prairie the actual temp is -11 and the windchill today is -25. At some point, I think you have to weigh the potential risk of a fire (after you’ve done every fire prevention thing you can think of – electrical up to code, separate hay storage, etc.) against the very real dangers of hypothermia, frostbite and/or downright super cold and miserable.

[Guilherme]

@2horseygirls;7943840

For the love of everything holy, please stop saying this.

Respectfully, we may just have different definitions of “rare” and “uncommon”.

This is a list of 23 barn fires that have occurred in the last 45 days.

<snipped for brevity>

During the last 45 days how many house fires have there been in the U.S. and Canada?

What is the cause of EACH of the fires you cite? How many are arson? How many accidental? How many from other criminal activities? How many from defective equipment? How many from careless smoking? How many from spontaneous combustion of poorly put up hay? How many result from “cold weather activities” such as space heaters? Citing a number means nothing until you put the number in context. Then we can understand the number and formulate a plan to address the issues the number raises.

For the average barn owner the best they are going to be able to do is proper maintenance of their own facility and a good alarm system. The idea of industrial quality fire suppression systems in small, private barns is simply beyond the means of most people. Ranting and railing and throwing out numbers to intentionally cause fright and distress is a dastardly act.

Twain observed that there are “lies, damn lies, and statistics.” We convert statistics into truth by understanding them.

G.

[cowboymom]

Don’t even try it, KR. :lol:

It’s been between -20 and -30 before wind chill, on a 15 mph wind, with two feet of snow on the level, the last three days here in central Montana and every one of our horses is outside, even the 35 year old mare. They have shelters but they are not locked up in a stall in a barn, never are and this has been fairly typical weather.

A healthy horse with a shelter and plenty of food will not get hypothermia or frostbite. Not gonna happen. They rarely even get “cold and miserable” though applying human response to their pragmatic “waiting out the weather” approach might make you think they’re miserable. In reality, they’re patient.

During the shedding transitions in fall/spring we might blanket a couple of the thin skinned but never ever lock them in a stall.

Horses are quite capable of living outside if people will let them.

[King_s_Ransom]

You know, cowboymom, you always pull the “I’ve got worse weather than you card.” Here’s the thing, MY horses do not live in Montana and they are not used to it being -20 or -30 before wind chill. I don’t give a flip how acclimated (or miserable) your cow ponies may or may not be. I have an elderly dressage show horse and a retired thin-skinned Thoroughbred from Kentucky – neither of whom do well when the winds are 25 mph steady and gusts to 45 mph as they are now, and temps well below zero.

I’ll put them into the safest barn I can afford.

I do have a sturdy little Arab/Quarter who could stand with his tail to a blizzard and never feel a thing. The pony could probably take a swim in Lake Michigan and never shiver. So, I get that SOME horses can handle this. Others – not so much.

Sorry, but I have seen frostbitten ears and noses on horses whose owners always pull the, “Well, wild horses live outside” argument … never realizing that wild horses don’t often live into their 30s and are a completely different breed than your show horse who has always lived a manicured life.

[cowboymom]

Hey, you’re not hearing me. I don’t suggest that you stick any of your horses in a snow bank and call it good.

I say don’t lock them in the freaking barn without so much as a turn out. They don’t need to be in a barn.

My weather generally is pretty dang bad but later today it’s going to be 40 degrees instead of the 3 it is now. My horses aren’t acclimated to anything and I only have two quarter horses (if that’s what you mean by “cow pony”) out of eight of them. Two of them are in blankets, of them six months of the year b/c she’s a thin skinned skinny arab.

I’m saying no horse needs to be locked in a barn. Stall with turnout, if it makes you happy go ahead but you’re only making yourself happy and the horse doesn’t need it. If you’re worried about them burning up in a fire then don’t lock them in a barn. You have them in the barn for your own reasons, not theirs.

If you don’t want to hear about my weather don’t try to one-up someone from Florida about how bad your weather is. I think I have weather creds and I’m not afraid to point them out. :lol:

[PeanutButterPony]

It will be zero or below with the windchill here tonight. And the horses will be out and they will be fine. They aren’t cow ponies, though, I’m sure they’d be more comfortable with the right label

[SuckerForHorses]

Originally Posted by owlbynite

We always used plenty of great quality blankets, double if necessary! Never had an illness or problem in all those years. And that was in the cold Northeast.

[QUOTE=trubandloki;7943910]
??[/QUOTE]

I think the point was, just blanket them and leave them out, then you don’t have to worry about them burning in a barn.

[SuckerForHorses]

It takes approximately 4 minutes, 30 seconds for a wooden barn to become fully engulfed in flames, from the moment of ignition. This was determined by the counter on the video of a controlled burn done on an empty barn, so no shavings or hay were present. Imagine how adding shavings or hay to that barn could have hastened the burn time.

This.

The friend I mentioned in my earlier post who lost her barn on 12/27…the dog alerted them by whining. Her husband got up, looked out the window, and saw flames of a very small size, he said about the size of a 5 gallon bucket was the surface area of the flame, and it was right near the water hydrant. He threw on shoes as quick as he could, and by the time he got there, the entire side of the barn was up in flames. They lost everything. By the time the fire department even got there, it was a lost cause, everything was already engulfed. At that point, they just let it burn, and rotated the debri to encourage completely burning the material so cleanup would be easier (ashes versus a pile of half-burned rubble to deal with).

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=LookmaNohands;7943055]
I had put that video on my facebook page a few weeks ago. I commented that it would be better to always use regular halters rather than rope ones. Here is what a friend who is a horse person and firefighter wrote in response. It paints a bleak picture of ever getting horses out:

good point re the halters, although in smoke conditions and with a person who has probably never haltered a horse, it’s going to be tough no matter what is hanging there. While most barn fires are caused by faulty wiring (often damaged by mice), what burns will be what is called Class A materials (wood of the building, straw or shavings in bedding and the hay). Your water hose will deliver more quantity of water to extinguish a blaze than hand-held extinguishers. Plus the fact it is pressurized will help it penetrate the packed materials contained in the bales of hay. Those hanging extinguishers which you suggest contain powdered materials which will put out all types of fire (they are marked for Class A B and C fires), but they don’t contain enough quantity to be of much use for you to put out a fast-spreading fire which would occur one the hay is involved. Moreover, they require some technique and the need to get rather close to a fire. There is an extinguisher which contains pressurized water with about a 10-foot reach, but they can freeze during the winter, so are not really appropriate for having at your barn. And, again, they run out of juice. A barn fire is a really bad situation; hidden fire in stacked hay bales, lots of oxygen available to feed a quickly-growing fire, very large animals whose instincts don’t help their cause … the very best plan for a barn fire is prevention. Check your barn wiring, if needed rewire your barn and encase the wiring to protect it from mice, make sure you haven’t overloaded circuits with bucket heaters, etc., replace an aged fuse box with a new box with breakers that trip when there is a problem, make sure your hay is cured before you stack it, be careful with appliances like coffee makers, fridges, etc. For the firefighting side, the video really misses the point of how firefighting operations will go at a barn. With usually volunteer departments responding, often from some distance, 1. there will be a time delay. The first unit may get there pretty quickly, but the other needed units may have quite a delay in arriving. Firefighting is based on time. Fires grow exponentially, not in a linear fashion. Thus doubling a given duration results in four times as much fire. There won’t be personnel available to screw around with a halter with the fire growing, usually overhead in the loft. 2. There will be a water supply problem for firefighting operations. Farms are usually in rural, non-hydranted areas. The pumper will arrive with, let’s be generous, 1,000 gallons of water on board. With a small handline efficiently used, that’s four minutes of water. If they use the big deck gun on the roof to give a big hit to knock out as much fire as possible, that can be one minute to 1.5 minutes. Okay, they laid out a big supply line down your driveway to be supplied by a tanker; that will be 4 or five more minutes. If they set up a shuttle operation to being in large quantities of water, that can take 15 to 20 minutes to just set up, much less begin bringing in water. Meanwhile, the clock is ticking and the fire has free access to oxygen. Meanwhile, noisy, siren-spewing beasts with flashing lights have just pulled up. Folks with face masks and breathing apparatus making weird noise are scurrying around. Will any horse in any kind of halter be very leadable at this moment? And a ‘practice drill’ with your local fire company will not result in a calm horse during a fire. They know they’re in big trouble if they’re locked in a stall. ( I once had to deal with a horse in a pasture while a helicopter landed for an emergency transport in the adjacent pasture. Not fun.) This is why most barn fires result in lost barns. This is why you never, never, never want to have a barn fire. Unless you are there during the first one to three minutes of the fire with a charged garden hose and a knife to open burning hay bales, a burning barn is a lost barn. But thanks for the posting to remind people of the dangers. I’m a horseman and was a professional firefighter for almost 25 years.[/QUOTE]

I agree with “there are only a matter of minutes”. But disagree with “knife to open smoking/burning hay bales” and I am surprised given the writer’s “experience” that he would suggest this. Just soak it with the hose. Do not cut open.

A hay bale that is tightly baled will not produce a large fire. It will burn off the top and edges and or smolder. Once opened and air/oxygen is introduced it will burn with far more intensity and rapidly. I have demonstrated this a number of times to friends.

Bales that have been put up, stacked, stored with moisture levels above 25% have a higher risk of becoming “hot”. Especially those that are deep down in the stack. Weight and pressure, bales that have been bales very “tight” is needed to rise internal temps high enough to cause the bales to “smoke”. Rarely if ever will they be top bales and or bales near the top. Talking about “small squares”.
The LAST thing anyone should do if they smell smoke coming from their hay stack is to “dig down” and look for the smoldering bales. Once air/oxygen is introduced there will be spontaneous combustion. First thing to do is call the fire department, second is to take a hose and stick it as far down in between the bales where the smoke appears to be coming from turn it on and leave and or just lay the hose on the bales so as to soak them. Wait for the fire department. They will the will spray/soak the entire stack BEFORE digging into it.

There is little worry of getting “hot” bales from a reputable re-seller who buys in bulk and stores for future sales. The check what they are buying. Buying out of the “field” can be problematic. Any reputable producer should have a moisture probe and be checking bales. And or buy one check a few bales while loading and or stacking if delivered.

I do not take halter off of our stalled horses. More in case one should get out then in case of a fire. Horses have been documented to have run back into their stalls after being driven out of a barn that has caught fire. Not surprising they have learned their stall is their “safe place”. The average “fire fighter” will have no experience with horses. Most would be apprehensive going into a stall with a horse let alone with one when the barn is on fire and they are completely agitated, frighten.

[baxtersmom]

Thanks everyone for sharing the information.

I made the change last year when I had the chance to keep my guy in a private run with a shelter versus a stall (which I generally used only in bad weather or before a show). I sleep better, even with the weather we had last year (and now).

[rcloisonne]

[QUOTE=Guilherme;7941834]
…I keep two barn cats to keep rodents under control (and reduce the risk of mice chewing into wires). There’s not much else I can do. G.[/QUOTE]
You could have all barn wiring enclosed in conduit. Much more effective than barn cats at preventing rodent wire chewing. Many newer barns have this feature.

I know two owners who have lost horses in barn fires at boarding stables. They can’t be that rare.

There was a minor fire at the barn where I board last year. An outlet that had a plug from an extension cord to a bucket heater started sparking and smoking one morning while I was feeding. For some unknown reason it didn’t trip the circuit breaker. Had I not been there, my horses as well as 7 others would have been just another statistic.

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=rcloisonne;7945017]
You could have all barn wiring enclosed in conduit. Much more effective than barn cats at preventing rodent wire chewing. Many newer barns have this feature.

I know two owners who have lost horses in barn fires at boarding stables. They can’t be that rare.

There was a minor fire at the barn where I board last year. An outlet that had a plug from an extension cord to a bucket heater started sparking and smoking one morning while I was feeding. For some unknown reason it didn’t trip the circuit breaker. Had I not been there, my horses as well as 7 others would have been just another statistic.[/QUOTE]

When we built the barn 20 years ago we built to code (and that meant conduit). My neighbors were horrified I’d “waste” money on such “frivolity.”

Still, even when you go with full code compliance there are always places where the meeses can get to and cause trouble. That’s where the cats come in.

G.

[SLW]

My stalls open to the aisle and to turnout. It is important that the exterior doors can be secured from the outside OR the inside. If stalling a horse one might only secure the exterior door from the outside in case of an emergency. Mine are only stalled if an ice storm is forecast.

My fire department is a rural volunteer department that is 9 miles away. They have a 100% record of saving the basements of houses. KR- you probably are zoned to a different FD but either way we are both pretty much out of luck given where we live. Allstate wouldn’t consider writing a policy on our home 21 years ago because of its location. We had been using them for auto and home for 15 years back east, even when lived in Hurricane Ally.

[King_s_Ransom]

Yep yep SLW – same boat. I learned within the first few weeks I lived out here that the fire department is mostly useless. Neighbors let their field burn get out of control and it quickly burned across my property toward the barn and house. The first time I called, they wouldn’t even come. I felt so helpless standing out there with a garden hose! Fortunately, there is a very small stream that runs across the farm – so small and I was so new here that I hadn’t really noticed it. That little trickle of water running down the hill stopped the fire, believe it or not.

I want to set mine up the way yours is, though I realize this will be about the millionth thing I’ve copied off of you so if you want to call me a copycat, well, that shoe fits.

Mine are stalled if air temps are below 5-degrees F AND wind chills are below zero. Otherwise, they are out. It would take another Ice Age to get Rocky or Parker to bat an eye. And Elijah used to be the same, but he has lost a few steps over the past couple years and starting to show his age. He gets cold. And Cooper, who carries no body fat for insulation and not much coat, gets cold pretty quick at those conditions.

My problem with getting the barn doors and turnouts is less one of budget than it is finding someone to do the work. If you have suggestions for that, I’d love to hear it. Still waiting for the guys who promised to put in the new paddock fencing before winter to show up … and they keep telling me they will “in a couple of weeks.” Yeah, right. The ground is frozen solid now.

[PeanutButterPony]

When you elected to live way, way, way out there on the prairie, self reliance came into play…for better or worse. From fire mitigation to fence building, perhaps it’s up to you and your pioneering family to get 'er done.

[SLW]

Ugh about finding someone who will do the work and do it nicely. A girlfriend just had a hayloft with stairs added over her 4 stalls and I know she was pleased with the results in both time frame and quality of work. I saw it and it was very nice. I will get the guys name and maybe it’s someone you haven’t contacted before.

You have a pond don’t you?? I know a lot of people count on their ponds to be used in fire fighting- whether it is with their own pump and hoses or refilling a tanker truck.

Like you, I enjoy finding the perfect arrangement for my horses here at home. As a concession to the extreme cold I did put a stable blanket under the turnout blanket on my trace clipped hunting horse. The donkey didn’t technically need to be blanketed but she is so darn cute tucked into (and kinda hanging out of) a size 56 blanket while waiting for the size 61 to arrive. More hay rations are being consumed so I know they are weathering the extreme weather perfectly.

[King_s_Ransom]

PBPony – I don’t have a pioneering family. I lived out here for five years as a single lady, a city transplant with 10 thumbs (none of them green). Five years ago I married a Yankee from Connecticut, a writer whose daily commute was on a train into NYC. Ten years my senior.

Together, we are not only inept at DIY, we are downright dangerous. He is worse than me and that is really saying something. To boot, he had back surgery last summer and as time marches on, we are now old and even though I did a ton of fence work when I first moved in, darlin’ it ain’t happening now!

If SLW can get that name from her girlfriend, I’ll definitely be calling.

[horsepoor]

Speaking of fire safety, here’s another tragedy that can be used to learn from: Space Heater Used to Thaw Frozen Pipe Sparks Barn Fire

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=horsepoor;7946641]
Speaking of fire safety, here’s another tragedy that can be used to learn from: Space Heater Used to Thaw Frozen Pipe Sparks Barn Fire
:([/QUOTE]

You can’t fix stupid.

PSA: to thaw a frozen pipe use a hair dryer. You can make a “tent” of heavy duty plastic around the pipe, put the dryer in the tent, and turn it on “low.” Have someone assigned to watch the process. The time involved depends on the OAT and volume of air to be heated and the amount of ice to be melted.

Oh, did I mention that you have to pay attention to job???

G.