canter aid, inside or outside leg

[MysticOakRanch]

[QUOTE=piedmontfields;8833994]
Agree! But I will say that in learning stages (for horse, for rider) it can be important not to “ambush” the horse with the outside leg. Sometimes that is why riders feel forgetting about the outside aid is helpful. But they will need it down the road.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely agree - in the early stages, I actually like to get them familiar with verbal commands on the lunge line, so I use the verbal “Canter”, and sometimes a lot of kicking and clucking:lol: The aids are refined once the horse understands he CAN canter with a person on his back.

[see_u_at_x]

[QUOTE=pluvinel;8833046]
This^^^^ is what I have been taught by Cadre Noir instructors for the reasons stated above.

I sit on the outside seat bone and “ask” for the depart with the inside leg. In this position it puts my body “leading” with the inside leg.[/QUOTE]

What pluvinel said exactly.

[SuzieQNutter]

Lift the inside seat bone.

Just look at the riders that have been taught to ask for canter by sliding the outside leg back. When they do 1 x tempis. They are swinging legs back and forth the whole way along the diagonal.

[Crockpot]

Absolutely agree - in the early stages, I actually like to get them familiar with verbal commands on the lunge line, so I use the verbal “Canter”,

yes- Of course-

then transfer the verbal cue to the aids you want to use

Maybe needs a separate thread

[Foxtrot_s]

I do what the majority do here - inside leg is the go button, outside leg back a little and use of the glute…

But there are lateral aids and diagonal aids. I took lessons from someone who had a GP horse and she taught the lateral aids. It didn’t work for me - my old way was too entrenched - so I switched back to diagonal.

[Crockpot]

I do what the majority do here - inside leg is the go button, outside leg back a little and use of the glute…

Just have to clarify that for some of us 'the glute ’ is definitely not the same thing as the 'seat" in this context-

they are completely different.

but carry on…

[Classicgal]

I used to be perplexed by this question! I rode at a place that every horse just went into the canter with a little touch of outside leg back. But then was taught to use the inside on the girth and maybe the outside could slide back but not do anything. So I read whatever I could about it. Some dressage masters say to never ask by using the outside leg against the horse because it will make correct flying changes hard later because it makes the horse crooked.

[Daisyesq]

Asking with the outside leg would tend to make the horse crooked, by swinging the haunches in.

Canter aid: “place” the outside leg slightly behind the girth (cues which lead) but don’t press there, “apply” the inside leg at the girth for “go” while lifting the inside seat bone (some posters have said to sit on the outside seat bone, which is the same thing, except might cause the rider to stay there which would be a problem). Sometimes my horses respond well to an outside rein half-halt at the same cue - assists in straightness.

[MysticOakRanch]

There you go, easy-peasy :lol: Now we know why dressage is so hard - even with something so basic as “how do I pick up the canter”, you get twenty different answers:lol:

[pluvinel]

I will offer that as soon as you over intellectualize this, think only of mechanics of where are the legs, etc… and think too much, you will be a day late and a dollar short…ask me how I know.

As an engineer, I have this mental handicap…I overthink too much.

When I was trying to school flying changes, one instructor specifically said, “Quit approaching the flying change like an engineer…approach it like a ‘drunken artiste’.”

It was her words to say “quit thinking and start feeling”…so I pass on these wise words to those who may be able to use them.

I start to teach the canter transition on the lunge line…by the voice. Both the transition from trot-canter and walk-canter.

At first, as the horse is learning, the transitions aren’t perfect or clean…the horse speeds up at the trot, or puts in trot steps from walk into the canter. Eventually horse figures it out.

Then…when I’m teaching the transition under saddle, I use the voice. I “think” with my body what the first step of canter depart will feel like, ask with the voice, and typically…off we go.

Eventually, I just have to think about the canter, position my body to receive that energy from the transition…and (I am amazed horses are this sensitive)…we canter off.

[ShannonLee]

[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8834147]
Lift the inside seat bone.

Just look at the riders that have been taught to ask for canter by sliding the outside leg back. When they do 1 x tempis. They are swinging legs back and forth the whole way along the diagonal.[/QUOTE]

I hate the big swinging leg in the tempis - but most riders actually use some outside leg, and for one tempis we try to keep both our legs a little back and touch the horse side to side (more like windshield wipers) - The key with using the outside leg as part of the canter or change aid is that it has to be quick and not strong - if it’s slower and strong then it makes the horse crooked.

[ThreeFigs]

Loving the “Drunken Artiste” comment!

I overthink “new” skills to the point that I make the horse and myself tense. The trick really is to “not think” and let things happen naturally.

Listening to my clinician talk me through changes and NOT anticipating the changes helped me.

[Foxtrot_s]

Re hunters:

Years ago Practical Horseman had a series where they would ask three BNT’s to write on how to perform a movement - say, canter depart…it seemed that all three would all ask for it slightly differently. It was confusing, but many roads lead to Rome.

In dressage it is complex, for me, because we have to think ahead to the next movement and up the levels, so as to keep things clear of the horse.

[Beentheredonethat]

What everyone said, to put it together. Depending on where you are in the training, from first asking for the canter to first asking for flying changes, it depends on the subtleness.

The final goal is one tempis, where you’re really doing it from lifting up the inside seatbone. But, that requires, as Mystic said, the set up of the horse off the new inside leg and responsive to the supportive outside. You see swinging legs in tempi changes because people are thinking too much from the leg.

Young horses we often get the canter whatever way we can. Ideally they have learned the verbal cue, and some speed and off the back helps. When they are new in the canter depart, we may have to be stronger and more obvious with the outside leg. As the develop, ideally you have taught them to give to the inside leg and rein, have a supportive outside leg to set up, and are teaching them a left/move of the inside hip gets the canter. Think of their legs–they need to step under with the new inside and lighten off the new inside to get it.

You have to also deal with the individual horse and what they need. Right now I just started my 6 year old on changes two weeks ago. Some horses after teaching them walk canter walk help get the idea thinking more with a touch of the inside whip. With her this didn’t work at all. I need a strong outside leg to cue the change AFTER I’ve got her supple off the new inside rein. She does them very, very well–one of the easiest horses I’ve ever trained. Down the road when she’s solid here, we’ll work more on just supportive outside leg and more/only inside hip.

We always get crooked and tweaked if someone isn’t watching us. I need to be reminded more from the hip and not to lean over. The George Morris article really stuck with me, too, and I always keep that in mind–sit, straight, hands up, and forward.

[cadance]

Inside leg with the inside shoulder back is the classical aid to ask for canter…adding the outside leg just a touch if necessary