Canter difficulty with every horse

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@Melissa.Van Doren

The whole wind in the hair thing? Yeah, you need to learn to love that.
Is there a vaulting club in your area? You need to canter and canter and canter on a horse that’s rock-steady… the kind that lets you put your hands on your hips, and over your head and out to the sides, on the longe or in a round pen. Then you need to get outside on long, smooth trails with another rock-steady horse. Several of them.
Your mind needs to let go and your body needs to learn to allow all the movement of the horse to roll through you in a happy wave, so the horse under you is unimpeded. Horses break from canter under tight riders because tightness creates imbalance. When the horse must balance on a single leg for two out of three beats, they quickly learn not to trust a rider who suddenly pitches forward/back/side-to-side and transitions downward as a ‘survival’ tactic.
As to why you can canter for a while and then lose it? My guess is that you initially feel in control on a new horse, are hopeful, and then the horse does something small (or big) that tweaks your own survival instinct and then the cycle begins again… you brace, the horse transitions, you have to brace more to deal with the abrupt change in balance, then so does the horse, and you’re both convinced You Can’t Do It.
Get outside the box and embrace the wind.

This is all true. And, even better, I have these horses. They both have the smoothest canters around. Not joking. And they are both lovely on the longe. One is (now, not before) great on trails alone or with others. Certain trails - we don’t go to the mountains or anything huge right now. But even going on trails is a HUGE deal for me. Working on the other one getting more used to it trails.

I really appreciate how you are describing WHY they transition down–I totally see that. I’m not bad side to side but leaning forward is my signature move. Throwing the reins away is another. My one (the WB) needs me to stay back more than the other.

This is great advice - not so sure I will ever get to loving wind in the hair, but I can make these small changes combining a few of these posts. And I can take longe lessons on my own horses, because they are exactly as you describe. Thanks. This is very, very helpful.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@alibi_18

It will fix that too. It will fix everything.
You won’t have time to collapse much because you’ll have to start back cantering in 5 strides. Do so with both horses - do exercices according to their level (but at 3rd and Inter, I’m assuming walk-canter-walk is mastered). Don’t fuss over collection at all, or jump or fancy to begin with.

Just walk, canter, walk every 5 strides. Forget the rest, canter-walk-canter-walk. Do like 20 transitions of so ? (decide in advance for the sake of it) - take a walk break, do some trotting, walk again and go on with the transitions. Just count. Be very precise. Go around the arena at first, but then decide on your next moves.

Breathe.

Do not, under no circumstances, keep cantering endlessly (or walking for that matter). Transition.

Do the best transitions you can, but they might look like shit at first. (You’ll go back to « no transition until you feel it’s gonna be a perfect transition » after that.)

Breathe.

Commit yourself to a month of that.

Horse 1 (Right Horse) I wouldn’t say is 3rd or even second…he can do changes, beautiful W-C, and C-W with someone else, but I throw him forward and away. He could do a third level test nicely with my trainer on but I don’t have the skills and he isn’t push button. Horse 2 is schooling I-1 and more. (my comment about I-2 movements at the trot just means the geometry, etc. More of a joke, but I can do some tricks for fun.). He is confirmed PSG. Classically well trained. Both great and willing horses. Sometimes on horse 2 when I school lateral and then ask for canter, I get haunches in/start of pirouette/all sorts of crap. He’s eager to please and I have to get my crap straight.

I can do all of these exercises on both horses.

Interesting. Will make this my plan tomorrow. Thank you - I really appreciate it. Tricking my mind works. So does alcohol sometimes, but who wants to drink every morning :).

[RedHorses]

Can you/ do you/ will you ride bareback (with or without a (stirrup-less!) bareback pad? Or just ride without stirrups?

One exercise that helped me find my canter balance was riding bareback at canter and actively trying to touch the ground with my toes. At first it was a stride, tighten legs to hold on, reset and try again. As someone poo pooed this idea in the past I feel I must add that this is an EXERCISE, not an end goal riding style.

The active attempt to touch toes to the ground uses the opposing muscles to those that are used to keep one’s leg on and holding on. This very strongly encourages one to find their dynamic balance on the horse instead of hanging on with their legs. It is a gradual thing where the frequency of hanging on, reset, back to pointing toes is reduced.

Start at trot before trying canter. Hang on with your legs as needed, find the rhythm and try again. I suspect you are holding the horse back somewhere in your seat if no one can see what you are doing. This exercise can give you a quick reset once you’ve found that balance.

Another exercise is forward/back. Play with your timing of aids as you go forward 3-6 strides then back 3-6 strides, and repeat. I find leg as the shoulders are coming up and hind feet reaching forward under the horse is effective for back, while leg after the first hind foot touches down is effective for forward (sometimes every other stride). Discipline yourself to GET a more forward canter response before asking for back. Remind yourself that you’re only going forward for a few strides and then you’re coming back. It sounds like your horses will have no trouble coming back which will reassure your subconscious that you can stop a cantering horse.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹

Finally the 10-10-10 exercise from 101 Dressage Exercises might also help. Trot 10 strides, canter 10 strides, walk 10, canter 10, repeat. Every other 10 is canter, alternating walk and trot between canters. Again discipline yourself to get the forward canter - your transitions and quality of the subsequent walk and trot will show you if your canter sucked. Think medium trot and walk.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹I hope this helps!

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@RedHorses

Can you/ do you/ will you ride bareback (with or without a (stirrup-less!) bareback pad? Or just ride without stirrups?

One exercise that helped me find my canter balance was riding bareback at canter and actively trying to touch the ground with my toes. At first it was a stride, tighten legs to hold on, reset and try again. As someone poo pooed this idea in the past I feel I must add that this is an EXERCISE, not an end goal riding style.

The active attempt to touch toes to the ground uses the opposing muscles to those that are used to keep one’s leg on and holding on. This very strongly encourages one to find their dynamic balance on the horse instead of hanging on with their legs. It is a gradual thing where the frequency of hanging on, reset, back to pointing toes is reduced.

Start at trot before trying canter. Hang on with your legs as needed, find the rhythm and try again. I suspect you are holding the horse back somewhere in your seat if no one can see what you are doing. This exercise can give you a quick reset once you’ve found that balance.

Another exercise is forward/back. Play with your timing of aids as you go forward 3-6 strides then back 3-6 strides, and repeat. I find leg as the shoulders are coming up and hind feet reaching forward under the horse is effective for back, while leg after the first hind foot touches down is effective for forward (sometimes every other stride). Discipline yourself to GET a more forward canter response before asking for back. Remind yourself that you’re only going forward for a few strides and then you’re coming back. It sounds like your horses will have no trouble coming back which will reassure your subconscious that you can stop a cantering horse.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹

Finally the 10-10-10 exercise from 101 Dressage Exercises might also help. Trot 10 strides, canter 10 strides, walk 10, canter 10, repeat. Every other 10 is canter, alternating walk and trot between canters. Again discipline yourself to get the forward canter - your transitions and quality of the subsequent walk and trot will show you if your canter sucked. Think medium trot and walk.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹I hope this helps!

Thank you! Great advice. Horse 1 is displeased with bareback (my butt use to be much more bony, lol) but likely would be fine with a pad, and certainly I can ride without stirrups - I actually ride better without them. My trainer has me drop stirrups on horse 2 and stretch down just as you are saying. He’s really big…and a bit intimidating to ride without stirrups, but I can make it happen. Maybe not just yet, though. I’m not a big leg squeezer, it’s more of pitching forward, but certainly I can do this as I think it will help regardless and likely identify that I am squeezing at times. My side to side/sitting center balance has always been very good - not my forward backward. My trainer would likely identify this as my top issue right now - leaning forward. It’s protective - although I know it doesn’t help. And worsens, likely. I’ve ridden with great clinicians, some of whom have said differing things and I understand why - scooping the seat for canter versus staying centered, etc. When I do sit properly, then I tend to not move as I’m focused on keeping elements of tension (positive tension - I’m very Gumby-like), and then I think I just “sit there.” So perhaps I’m either perched forward or I’m just sitting still. Either way…entirely ineffective. Strangely I do better at shows.

YES with the timing of the forward and back. I agree.

What’s also involved in the forward and back is that keeping going when bringing back is a thing for me. So if i want to just bring back, sometimes I do the same thing and collapse forward, sending him on his forehand, which isn’t good. I need to figure out how to bring back and at the same time keep going…and if stilling my set is helping bring back, but I don’t have much movement in my seat to begin with…how does that work?

I have the 101 Dressage Exercises book and can get that out. I forgot I had it. I might have to start with 5. I honestly right now can’t reliably keep 10 strides at the C; I know that’s not good but it’s where I was yesterday…not good.

This is also very helpful; thank you very much. I really appreciate all the time it took for you to write it up and help - thank you! Will report back.

I do have a wonderful trainer, and sometimes I need to sort this stuff out in my own head and work through it. I’m likely frustrating to teach due to the fear issues. But I don’t hide them.

[RedHorses]

I think of sucking the horse up with my seat (as his shoulders are coming up) and I have to stretch my body very tall to bring him up. So it’s not changing my seat to affect the gait so much. I mean it is, but it isn’t. Sorry, not helpful.

I’m kind of asking for more up - come up to me, instead of stretching forward or asking for a shorter stride - and then allow the stride, and ask him to come up to me again on the next stride. The shorter stride (collection) just happens naturally as the horse comes up more. It’s about incremental changes, which get bigger as your horse understands what you want.

Going forward is the opposite. Pushing slightly as the hooves hit the ground hind, diagonal, front - and then sitting tall and allowing the horse to come up under me. If the horse is sticky about the forward I find alternating between pushing a stride and allowing a stride often gets a better lengthen response.

Is that better?

[RedHorses]

Oh - pinching with ones knees often makes the rider pitch forward…

[NotGrandPrixYet]

Yoga and mindfulness. Find all of the yoga exercises that release your pelvis and learn to meditate. You will gain a deeper seat, plus you will pay more attention to your breathing, your upright position rising toward the sky, and get something ELSE to think about (like pay attention to just how vibrant the green in the tree is, and the smell of that tree, etc. in other words, practice mindfulness of your surroundings, instead of thinking about fear.

This is what helped me get over my fear after a bad riding accident.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@alibi_18

It will fix that too. It will fix everything.
You won’t have time to collapse much because you’ll have to start back cantering in 5 strides. Do so with both horses - do exercices according to their level (but at 3rd and Inter, I’m assuming walk-canter-walk is mastered). Don’t fuss over collection at all, or jump or fancy to begin with.

Just walk, canter, walk every 5 strides. Forget the rest, canter-walk-canter-walk. Do like 20 transitions of so ? (decide in advance for the sake of it) - take a walk break, do some trotting, walk again and go on with the transitions. Just count. Be very precise. Go around the arena at first, but then decide on your next moves.

Breathe.

Do not, under no circumstances, keep cantering endlessly (or walking for that matter). Transition.

Do the best transitions you can, but they might look like shit at first. (You’ll go back to « no transition until you feel it’s gonna be a perfect transition » after that.)

Breathe.

Commit yourself to a month of that.

ETA : If you can, avoid the spurs for now - Feel it!
No judgement - if you need it, you need it but this is just canter departures, you shouldn’t need much spurs for that. Relax your legs and let it happen. Have fun.

Responding to your ETA - I haven’t ridden with spurs in months - I don’t need them, likely. Thanks :). Will update tomorrow.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@RedHorses

I think of sucking the horse up with my seat (as his shoulders are coming up) and I have to stretch my body very tall to bring him up. So it’s not changing my seat to affect the gait so much. I mean it is, but it isn’t. Sorry, not helpful.

I’m kind of asking for more up - come up to me, instead of stretching forward or asking for a shorter stride - and then allow the stride, and ask him to come up to me again on the next stride. The shorter stride (collection) just happens naturally as the horse comes up more. It’s about incremental changes, which get bigger as your horse understands what you want.

Going forward is the opposite. Pushing slightly as the hooves hit the ground hind, diagonal, front - and then sitting tall and allowing the horse to come up under me. If the horse is sticky about the forward I find alternating between pushing a stride and allowing a stride often gets a better lengthen response.

Is that better?

Yes, thank you…easier on my more advanced horse because he responds differently due to his training…but even horse 1 can sit very, very well.

This is helpful. I’m not as experienced as horse 2, but he makes it easy when I do it properly. I can follow what you’re saying. One of the clinicians I worked with had similar imagery.

THANKS. Will report back! And yes, maybe I am pinching more than I thought.

[Bristol_Bay]

Have you tried riding in a Kanye West t-shirt?

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@NotGrandPrixYet

Yoga and mindfulness. Find all of the yoga exercises that release your pelvis and learn to meditate. You will gain a deeper seat, plus you will pay more attention to your breathing, your upright position rising toward the sky, and get something ELSE to think about (like pay attention to just how vibrant the green in the tree is, and the smell of that tree, etc. in other words, practice mindfulness of your surroundings, instead of thinking about fear.

This is what helped me get over my fear after a bad riding accident.

I’ve done the MBSR course (although we didn’t finish it…) and I’ve joined the Susanne von Dietz seminars, which are INCREDIBLE for breathing. Mind blown.

My trainer asks me totally unrelated questions to riding (like about work, etc.), and I ride far better. Hmmm.

Thank you. Glad you were able to get over fear after your crash. Hypnotherapy helps, too, and EMDR! But it sounds like you have it managed.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@Bristol Bay

Have you tried riding in a Kanye West t-shirt?

lol, no!! Omg that was sooo long ago!! Not the best COTH moment!

How ARE you?? Are you getting to ride all the time now? Happy to be out of the classroom?? Wow, our world has changed.

[Bristol_Bay]

But seriously, as an alternative to riding with the wind in your helmet, try bridging your reins in your outside hand, drop your inside hand by your side, and canter around like that a few laps every ride. It works best in a ring bigger than a dressage arena. You have brakes yet functions like a lunge lesson without reins. You can even practice steering with your seat and legs.

This has helped me relax in my seat and stop blocking my horse’s motion. I didn’t realize how much tension I carried. It also helped me develop more of a feel.

I ride on my own a lot of the time, so this is one thing I can do on my own that actually helps.

[Bristol_Bay]

@right horse at the right time

lol, no!! Omg that was sooo long ago!! Not the best COTH moment!

How ARE you?? Are you getting to ride all the time now? Happy to be out of the classroom?? Wow, our world has changed.

:lol:

I’m good! Yes, I ride 4 or 5 days a week, and moved to a barn farther away, but with lots more room to ride. I’ve had my horse 10 years now!

It sounds like you still have RH plus an UL school master? How do you have time?

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@Bristol Bay

But seriously, as an alternative to riding with the wind in your helmet, try bridging your reins in your outside hand, drop your inside hand by your side, and canter around like that a few laps every ride. It works best in a ring bigger than a dressage arena. You have brakes yet functions like a lunge lesson without reins. You can even practice steering with your seat and legs.

This has helped me relax in my seat and stop blocking my horse’s motion. I didn’t realize how much tension I carried. It also helped me develop more of a feel.

I ride on my own a lot of the time, so this is one thing I can do on my own that actually helps.

That’s a good idea - I will likely worry less…

I didn’t know you did the same type thing as I do. It’s frustrating!! I am in training but still ride my own rides often with my trainer in the ring as well, so I get pointers.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@Bristol Bay

:lol:

I’m good! Yes, I ride 4 or 5 days a week, and moved to a barn farther away, but with lots more room to ride. I’ve had my horse 10 years now!

It sounds like you still have RH plus an UL school master? How do you have time?

Yes, RH is still doing very well <3. And added a second one, UL school master yes. Between them and work, I have no time. None. But it’s ok. Just work and horses and sleep. Can’t really travel with COVID, so my life is insanely boring but it’s working for me right now :).

I can’t believe you’ve had your horse 10 years. <3. That is amazing.

[GreyDes]

In addition to all the fabulous ideas here, have you tried “blaming your tack”? Does shortening your stirrups or a different saddle make a difference?

[SuzieQNutter]

And remember to follow with the reins.

[Libby2563]

You’ve probably tried this but every time you pass a letter and in every transition, tip your head back and look up at the sky for a stride or two. It feels silly but it opens up your chest and prevents you from pitching forward. Do try not to hyperextend your lower back too much though.

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

Next time you lunge tie your reins in a knot and drop your stirrups.

Forget about “dressage” and just focus on what your hips and seat feel like.

Are you leaning forward or are your shoulders getting round?

Are your legs staying under your hips or are they going in front of you or behind you?

I would say, guessing without seeing a video, that you lose your vertical alignment.

Your pelvis may come out behind you and this causes your shoulders to come forward and your lower legs and feet to go behind.

if this is the case , do some exercises at different gaits focusing on your pelvis and keeping your vertical alignment.

I have a similar problem, but I have a horse that tells on me if i lean too far forward. he stops. Not in a mean way. At the trot he slows to a walk. At the canter he slows to a trot or a walk.

Also, i have found it useful to canter on a long rein and let my horse stretch his neck down. It helps me relax and trust my horse.

I have never had my horse spook or bolt when we do this.

If you could have your trainer video you sometime that would be useful , so you can see what your body is doing.

I think your brain is so busy trying to process all those instructions to your body that you cant get any feedback.

You lean forward but you dont feel that. You know that you must be leaning forward because your horse stops cantering .

Hope this helps.